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My problem with Moffat writing for the Tenth Doctor


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Old 01-04-2013, 00:48
Dr. Linus
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Don't get me wrong, I loved all of Moffat's Tenth Doctor episodes. In fact, they are probably all in my Top Five Tenth Doctor episodes, and Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead is one of my all-time favourites.

But here's the thing. In retrospect, I really don't think Moffat wrote very well for the Tenth Doctor, not because he's not a good writer or doesn't get the Doctor, but because in those episodes, he's clearly writing for The Eleventh Doctor.

Look at some of the lines David Tennant is given in Moffat episodes...

"Time's a big ball, of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff."
"There's four things happening. Four things and a lizard."
"If you understand me, look very, very scared!"
"I never land on Sundays. Sundays are boring."

The Ninth Doctor even gets a few suspiciously Eleven-ish lines in The Doctor Dances - "I like bananas. Bananas are good!"

These are all Eleventh Doctor lines that are hidden in plain sight. It might just be Moffat's personal style, but it does kind of render Ten an awful lot like Eleven on paper.

Also, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead was basically just a huge preview for the Eleventh Doctor era (which is one of the reasons I love it, to be fair).

So I'm just not sure that Moffat-penned Tenth Doctor lines, alongside the Eleventh, are going to work, because I find he basically writes the two as the same character, when Ten is nothing like Eleven really.

Maybe it's just me. But that's my only concern about Ten coming back.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:11
andy741
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I think your right and also a bit pessimistic.

In regards to the way Moffat writes, I think the lines you're talking about are a bit too Eleventh-y to go unnoticed, but it probably is more to do with the way Moffat likes to view the Doctor.

As far as planning though, especially in SitL/FotD, I believe Moffat has put things in those episodes that he'll come back to that are unexplained at the moment. So theres bound to be a bit here and there in the scripting to accommodate for that.

All things considered though, I wouldn't worry about Moffat's scripting for Doc 10. The type of character that Doc 10 is cant be scripted like Doc 11 all the time as, like you said, they aren't the same.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:12
mccollough
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I think... On paper the doctors are all quite similar. It's the actors who make them different. Have you heard sylvester mccoy's version if the pandorica speech? YouTube it. Same words and yet it feels like the seventh doctor completely
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:13
performingmonk
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RTD should have returned to co-write the Ten/Rose parts!
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:46
Abomination
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You raise a valid point, but I think the Elevenism's you hear in Ten and Nine only add to the experience... remember after all that Nine, Ten and Eleven are still the same man...it's nice to think that little elements of his personality echo across each regeneration

Hopefully Moffat will, with both Ten and Eleven on screen at once, be able to establish good enough dialogue between the two of them. So long as every other line isn't an "Alonsy" or a "OHYESH!" from Tennant, I think it'll be fine
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:02
Westy2
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At least Tennant will have to have a shave for a change!
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:18
sovietusername
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You raise a valid point, but I think the Elevenism's you hear in Ten and Nine only add to the experience... remember after all that Nine, Ten and Eleven are still the same man...it's nice to think that little elements of his personality echo across each regeneration

Hopefully Moffat will, with both Ten and Eleven on screen at once, be able to establish good enough dialogue between the two of them. So long as every other line isn't an "Alonsy" or a "OHYESH!" from Tennant, I think it'll be fine
My thoughts exactly
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Old 01-04-2013, 13:39
talentedmonkey
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But here's the thing. In retrospect, I really don't think Moffat wrote very well for the Tenth Doctor, not because he's not a good writer or doesn't get the Doctor, but because in those episodes, he's clearly writing for The Eleventh Doctor.

Look at some of the lines David Tennant is given in Moffat episodes...

"Time's a big ball, of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff."
"There's four things happening. Four things and a lizard."
"If you understand me, look very, very scared!"
"I never land on Sundays. Sundays are boring."

.
He is writing that way to appeal to kids who are key to the ratings,Kids like Doctor Who because he says and does stupid things nothing more to it than that.

If I had things my way I would never have had any of the current Doctors acting like manic idiots on speed with verbal diarrhoea, but then having a serious dark sensible Doctor like Troughton and Tom Baker probably would not be attractive to the main target audience of children.

.
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Old 01-04-2013, 13:45
davrosdodebird
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Erm, The Stolen Earth...

Originally Posted by The Doctor
Good, I like Saturdays
RTD did it too
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Old 01-04-2013, 14:03
johnnysaucepn
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He is writing that way to appeal to kids who are key to the ratings,Kids like Doctor Who because he says and does stupid things nothing more to it than that.
Nonsense. There's nothing in those lines that specifically appeal to kids. Wit appeals to adults too.
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Old 01-04-2013, 14:25
dalekaddison
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To add to this, Time Crash and its portrayal of Five is very different to the actual Five at the time. Lets hope Ten isn't completely different.

Although I'm not actually worried. I am only worried about them not getting an actual role. Just like a scene or something. I want a full on team up!
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Old 01-04-2013, 16:09
Westy2
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To add to this, Time Crash and its portrayal of Five is very different to the actual Five at the time. Lets hope Ten isn't completely different.
I thought that at the time.

I thought it was more like Davison's roles, where he's a bit more sarcastic in his delivery!

Then again Davison in 1981 had only been acting for a few years!
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Old 01-04-2013, 16:13
RememberMeWhen
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To add to this, Time Crash and its portrayal of Five is very different to the actual Five at the time. Lets hope Ten isn't completely different.

Although I'm not actually worried. I am only worried about them not getting an actual role. Just like a scene or something. I want a full on team up!
Me too!

But back to the original question - I think Moffat is a good writer, even if he annoys me sometimes on Who, but he writes characters very similarly.

His women are always feisty and headstrong (Clara, Amy, River and even in the Empty Child Rose acts a bit differently too), and his guys are mostly always bubbly and a bit awkward, for example the Eleventh Doctor and Rory.

Not criticising, just noticing.
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Old 01-04-2013, 16:43
CoalHillJanitor
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Me too!

But back to the original question - I think Moffat is a good writer, even if he annoys me sometimes on Who, but he writes characters very similarly.

His women are always feisty and headstrong (Clara, Amy, River and even in the Empty Child Rose acts a bit differently too), and his guys are mostly always bubbly and a bit awkward, for example the Eleventh Doctor and Rory.

Not criticising, just noticing.
After all these years he's still writing Lynda and Spike?
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Old 01-04-2013, 17:01
cathrin
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Me too!

But back to the original question - I think Moffat is a good writer, even if he annoys me sometimes on Who, but he writes characters very similarly.

His women are always feisty and headstrong (Clara, Amy, River and even in the Empty Child Rose acts a bit differently too), and his guys are mostly always bubbly and a bit awkward, for example the Eleventh Doctor and Rory.

Not criticising, just noticing.
After all these years he's still writing Lynda and Spike?
You've really put your finger on something here. Reading the above posts set me thinking about other Moffat characters, and that template you mention is almost always present in the male/female dynamic. Going right back to Joking Apart (smart sassy female who wears the trousers, daft bumbling male who gets into scrapes), and Coupling....and even that awful sitcom with the teachers....It really does seem like he's set the dial on those types and stuck to it!

That said, I think his characters do work very well, and he's such a terrfic writer, he gets away with it.
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Old 01-04-2013, 17:06
GilaGora
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They ARE the same character. Moffat understands this whereas Davies didn't (hence Davies referring to Ten's regeneration as a 'death' when it just wasn't).
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Old 01-04-2013, 17:45
Granny McSmith
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How can there be a problem? Moffat's stuff for the 10th Doctor was brilliant.

(As was RTD's stuff for the 11th.)
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Old 01-04-2013, 18:00
Deserana 12
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I think this is just the way Moffat writes. It's his style, there are many line in Sherlock that wouldn't go amiss in Doctor Who.
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Old 01-04-2013, 18:52
talentedmonkey
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Nonsense. There's nothing in those lines that specifically appeal to kids. Wit appeals to adults too.
Well I dont know many adults who think lines such as "Time's a big ball, of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff." is witty or amusing.
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Old 01-04-2013, 19:28
Torry_Z
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Well I dont know many adults who think lines such as "Time's a big ball, of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff." is witty or amusing.
I think it's hilarious.. and not an inaccurate description given the nature of the programme, I'm soon to be 29.
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Old 01-04-2013, 19:32
Midnight Moggy
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Don't get me wrong, I loved all of Moffat's Tenth Doctor episodes. In fact, they are probably all in my Top Five Tenth Doctor episodes, and Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead is one of my all-time favourites.

But here's the thing. In retrospect, I really don't think Moffat wrote very well for the Tenth Doctor, not because he's not a good writer or doesn't get the Doctor, but because in those episodes, he's clearly writing for The Eleventh Doctor.

Look at some of the lines David Tennant is given in Moffat episodes...

"Time's a big ball, of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff."
"There's four things happening. Four things and a lizard."
"If you understand me, look very, very scared!"
"I never land on Sundays. Sundays are boring."

The Ninth Doctor even gets a few suspiciously Eleven-ish lines in The Doctor Dances - "I like bananas. Bananas are good!"

These are all Eleventh Doctor lines that are hidden in plain sight. It might just be Moffat's personal style, but it does kind of render Ten an awful lot like Eleven on paper.

Also, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead was basically just a huge preview for the Eleventh Doctor era (which is one of the reasons I love it, to be fair).

So I'm just not sure that Moffat-penned Tenth Doctor lines, alongside the Eleventh, are going to work, because I find he basically writes the two as the same character, when Ten is nothing like Eleven really.

Maybe it's just me. But that's my only concern about Ten coming back.
I've never thought about this before, but reading this, it now occurs to me that you are probably right.
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Old 01-04-2013, 19:35
Shawn_Lunn
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RTD should have returned to co-write the Ten/Rose parts!
I don't think he should. RTD had his time on the show and he's moved.

Moffat's done well with Ten and Rose in the past, there's no reason why he can't again.
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Old 01-04-2013, 20:02
Granny McSmith
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Well I dont know many adults who think lines such as "Time's a big ball, of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff." is witty or amusing.
I love it.

But then, taking advice from the best, I like to be childish sometimes (very often, in fact. ).
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:38
johnnysaucepn
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Well I dont know many adults who think lines such as "Time's a big ball, of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff." is witty or amusing.
You have visited the internet, right? That line is one of the most-quoted, like, ever.

I don't understand how Moffat could have been writing for the Eleventh Doctor when the Eleventh Doctor didn't exist yet.

Moffat writes for the Doctor the way he's always written for the Doctor. It's Matt's performance that sells the difference in the character.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:13
TheSilentFez
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Well I dont know many adults who think lines such as "Time's a big ball, of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff." is witty or amusing.
Really? I thought this was one of the most quoted and most famous lines in Doctor Who since it was relaunched. I find it amusing and to be honest I can only imagine the Tenth Doctor saying it. To me it doesn't actually feel like something the Eleventh Doctor would say. Maybe this is down to the actual delivery of the line- Ten delivered it quite slowly and with a bit of uncertainty- even admitting later that the line got away from him. Eleven would have delivered the line at break-neck speed most probably with a lot of arm waving.
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