Theres a lot of people that seem to have completely forgotten about CH4s era.

The moronic crowd from 4s day threw things at the evicted,booed the winners and pretty much every other HM,they taunted,and chanted and ruined outdoor interviews.
Lets not try and make out this is 5s issue..its been an issue with the show for a very long time.

I agree Jamie Sutcliffe has to go once I found out that he engineers when to keep the eye open.

Also the white room complaints,ch5 were not responsible for that..blame Endemol UK..Surely it is their job to arrange and carry out twists and punish HMs.
I remember PEJ when he worked for Endemol saying the Nikki twist in BB7 was his idea.

JayPee..lets talk about the dullards..In BB5 pretty much the whole cast bar 1 was in your 18-30 catagory,same with BB6 and 7,and 3.
Now look at BB8 that had at least 4 or 5 over 35s..Carole,Jonathan,Lesley,Tracy are the names that come to mind.
Now tell me what age group has the dullards.

I absolutely dont want anyone near 40 or above in the house,they have proven to be crap or walkers time and time again.

We all know 5 have some major problems to sort out but this was an issue when on 4 as well so lets not pretend its 5 that has created problems.
It was ch4 that started with the music montage and fast editing,it was 4 that took the live online feed down,it was 4 that showed BB10 with very little feed on TV.
It was 4 that had the bullying moments with HMs like Jade.
It was 4 that had twists that never worked out well.

Some things 5 has done is
cut the show to 10 weeks ..good
Stopped bringing in tons of new unecessary housemates..good
Experimented ( even if it was nowhere near enough ) with the idea of live feed on tv...good start
Listened and changed the host to a much more popular choise.
Many were crying out for a vote to save and they brought it in..seems to have rattled those who liked vote to evict so verdict is they could not win either way.
Showing all the nominations instead of butchering them and even not showing some of them on 4.

This show will never go back to the duller days of BB1 and 2 so those who expect that may as well switch off,the show has to continue to evolve or it gets stale.
Not every change will be welcomed but the host change seems hugely popular not just here but on all forums and social media sites.
Dont expect miracles,it may take a few series for Emma to lay her mark and although Ford has gone and we seem to have a much more interesting person in charge I doubt he will want to bring all his ideas in one go so lets just see what BB14 brings but also be thankful that c5 have given this show a chance..because no other channel was going to.
Had 5 not picked it up we would not have had those 3 CBBs that most seem happy with.

Livefeed is important,yes it does cost money having to have solicitors to monitor it but we now have something called product placement which could easily pay for the feed to be broadcast on TV.
There are other issues though,we dont know what the contracts look like for freeview and for Endemol..maybe the current contracts have to be renewed before a live feed in full would be possible..id certainly rule out a net livefeed for the time being.

The feed is crucial imo because of what we are missing in storylines..sometimes bouts of dislike seem to spring up from episode to episode without any real explaination as to what caused it..that is not just lack of feed but also some very poor editing..the editing issue can be sorted by giving the job to somebody who does not see the show like a Tarantino,David Lynch film with jump cuts and backwards narrative.
For a show like big brother you need someone who can edit in a way that shows the build up to the climax and it has to be light on the eyes and mind.

There clearly is a cost to the live feed. Cost can not be "the" issue yet still be a significant factor.

Does anyone have a handy link to the Jeff Ford statements? What did he say about the reasons for the choice?

You might find them somewhere on the live feed thread.

I dont believe he ever mentioned the issue being the cost.
I think his way of thinking was the live feed was old hat and he wanted to use facebook to promote the show by asking you to like BBUK or was it C5BB or something like that.. and they would put clips up which were supposed to condense the live feed into a certain amount of short clips, many which would not feature on highlight show.

IMO this failed miserably and while its better than nothing I really cannot be bothered with 2 min clips, i believe they started showing clips lasting a bit longer during the last show

My way of thinking is it makes things even more complicated because you get a very small clip which makes you wonder what happened to cause the arguement or whatever,the detail of a livefeed can not be replaced with small clips now and then.

Jamie East started mocking the LF but he seems to be accepting now the feed was far more than watching them sleep.
Jeff Ford appeared to also think the LF didnt really have any effect on the show..to a degree he was right,certainly to the casual viewer but to many fans of the show its important and for the likes of me its a case of I used to spend roughly £30 per series voting but now I refuse because I dont vote for something without being sure im seeing the biggest picture possible.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a Davina fan. I just liked the way she would 'control' the crowd when they got a bit out of hand.

I do remember Davina herself annihilating Makosi about the Anthony saga. Makosi in my opinion, was the best house mate that year and did not deserve what happened to her on her exit, one little bit.

I agree about what happened while BB was on C4 vs on C5 -- however, you started by separating things due to Endemol from things down to the broadcaster but then seemed to stop. Anyway, things like "the music montage and fast editing" and "bringing in tons of new unnecessary housemates" are Endemol (though one reason for bringing in tons of new HMs is the series length, which is primarily down to the broadcaster).

I would also say Endemol is primarily to blame for bullying and other unpleasantness being insufficiently checked, although the broadcaster can step in. (We know from the Ofcom judgment re CBB5 that C4 required that Jade get a stronger warning after BB had already given her a weaker one.)

Ultimately, the broadcaster carries the can with Ofcom. So C5 can rightly be given a good share of the blame for such things as how Conor was handled, so far as weak warnings and not being thrown out are concerned. --- But remember that lots of people were strongly against C4 exercising more oversight after CBB5 and seemed to want C4 to stay out of it.

Vote-to-save would also be Endemol. (I think they just bought into the argument that it helps keep 'big characters' in. They think it will result in more drama, just as they presumably thought letting HMs discuss nominations would. But then, Endemol also thought that about putting the oven in the bedroom.)

Re "showing all the nominations" (presumably another Endemol decision), there were series on C4 when we weren't always shown all of the housemates nominating. But for some of the C4 years, we had the Nominations Uncut show. Of course, they still weren't uncut -- and neither do we see the full nomination sessions now. (Just compare the amount of time HMs spend in the DR with the amount shown.) So what we have now is better than the worst of the years on C4, but not as good as the best.

Re 'listened and changed the host" -- we don't know whether they listened or did it for some other reason(s), but in any case, who gets the credit / blame for the decision? I don't know how things work with BB presenters, but for the Big Breakfast -- another high-profile show made by an independent production company and shown on C4 -- those decisions were made a quite a high level. The presenters' contracts were with C4, so presumably C4 had the final say, and people at the top of the production company were also involved.

Re dullards, and older HMs vs 'club 18-30' -- if past regular series are a guide, it seems to me that being over 40 is one of the most reliable indicators that a person will turn out to be a poor HM in one way or another.


According to PEJ, BB had "strict rules about following timelines and not editing things out of context." Those rules seem to have gone out the window with the move to C5.

(For more about how the show used to be made, see pej's Double back de-flounce with pike thread.)

With that and other changes, such as having Marcus 'spin' in his narration, the highlights seem less reliable than ever as a guide to what really happened. But in the end I would rather have a better edit than a live feed. The main thing I like in live BB is that it lets me see more of HMs I like, especially if they are neglected in the HLs.

Some excellent points and the only reason my response here to this post is short is because I cannot really disagree on anything said.
I think with the bullying thing they need to be more specific with the HMs about
* What can and will be considered bullying by the producers and if deemed so it can lead to immediate expulsion from the show.
I do keep using BBAUS as an example of how strict they are on things like bullying,homophobia,racism,and respecting everyones faith/religion..Its important EndemolUK and C5 follow the BBAUS example.

*They should go into serious detail about life outside the house if you are seen as a bully or physically agressive or as in conors case verbal threats even if it was not said directly to that person..these types of things can destroy your life and prevent you from having a career.

*They should show them some acted out scenes to demonstrate how something like Conors remarks could be seen by others and how it may effect the person its aimed at.

I know some might think WTF its just a TV show but this show has a history of messing some peoples lives up..look at the things that apparently happened to Alexandar after she was kicked out the house.

C5 and Endemol should not just be calling them into DR to ask them to calm down and take time out..they should be asking the HM to go and sit quietly with the person they were attacking and apologise and issue a warning,a second warning about the same type of issue would be enough to kick that person out the house.

Going to try and read that PEJ thread a bit later on so thanks for the link.

A big one never the less.

I actually agree with you mostly SG1 .
I prefer the show on channel 5 !
It was abit crap at first but they seem to be heading in the right direction and have been slowly making changes.
For example bit on the side was completely unwatchable when it first started (ejaculating dog anyone?) but now I really enjoy it.
The live shows are still a big issue, they were bad on channel 4s later years, but they are abysmal on channel 5.

I also have to say I love the positive voting they have brought in since its move to c5. (Vote to save a housemate) it should have been put in place years ago on channel 4! Nickigate would never have happened for a start...

Anything which happened with Alexandar after she got thrown out should have nothing to do with Big Brother for the mere fact of how she behaved on the show.

Alexandar wasn't a nice person at all and her behaviour showed us that.

The crowd should have been ditched years ago really - fine for the launch and final to make them more of an event but their booing of every evictee is dull TV. It may sound boring but just having the HM leave the house to only be greeted by their friends and family would make much more powerful viewing.

That said the crowd aren't going to go but I do think the show should be back in the "studio" for links to the house and interviews, with that "studio" being essentially where it is now but the eye removed and a more simple glass backdrop used, with the crowd area revamped to look more like a small crowd lining the path to the house than an eviction set.

And I've been saying this since BB5/6/7 but the eviction show needs to go back to being just that - not eviction and phone numbers. Events in the house on the Thursday should be kept to a minimum (so any weekly task is done by Wednesdays) so that the live action, not the highlights, is the focus of the night - and Emma should chat to friends and family more and they should kind of be at the centre of the show. It literally only needs to be a word here and there but it just reminds viewers the housemates are people, not just characters.

And I'm in danger here of harking on about the old days being so much better but the fact is the crowd were probably more involved back in the days when Davina was studio bound than they are with the host amongst the show. She used to chat to individuals in the crowd before the eviction, on the way to collect the evictee and at the end of the show about who they wanted out next - and as a viewer that gave much more purpose to having a crowd of fans outside the house than just hearing them boo a list of names.

He's been given the boot, hasn't he ???

yes!!
Im hoping Emma can control the crowd more than Brian..if not then they may need to reconsider what type of audience they want at evictions.

Brian's problem was that from day one non one could take him seriously ,due to the fact that he flounced and minced around and to put it mildly was too camp ,turning up in fur coats like Liberace saying " I only drink Champagne" as if he was better than everyone else and not being able to interview people properly i'm surprised he survived as long as he did.
He was Boring in the House and Boring as the main show host and he loved the rabble shouting in the audience and played up to it and i say Thank god he's gone off into obscurity