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And Clara is.... (speculation, some genuine spoilers)


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Old 03-04-2013, 13:45
ballamory
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Given the slew of announcements in the last few days about the 50th anniversary, the following recently occurred to me as the most plausible scenario that we are likely to see at the end of series 7b, and in the anniversary special.



Clara is......








Spoiler


Spoiler



What do you all think?
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Old 03-04-2013, 13:55
Shawn_Lunn
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Not bad but we already know the Whispermen are the main villains for the finale and I don't think Clara is a Zygon. I think she is human but splintered and is not a previous character. In fact the prequel for TBOSJ pretty much debunked all those theories about her being another character or related to another character.
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Old 03-04-2013, 14:05
davrosdodebird
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Interesting theory, but Zygons usually revert back to Zygon form when they die

Welcome to the forum btw
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Old 03-04-2013, 14:05
Abomination
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Whilst I wouldn't put aside such ideas (after all the Utah-Doctor turned out to be the Tesselecta in one of the biggest TV cop-outs I've ever seen) I do think that Clara in non-Zygon linked.

I personally don't think the Zygons are going to have a big role to play in the days to come...perhaps in Series 8 they'll get a story of their own, but I think before that they'll have quite a minimal role.

I could be entirely wrong though...
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Old 03-04-2013, 14:10
ballamory
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I think she is human but splintered and is not a previous character. In fact the prequel for TBOSJ pretty much debunked all those theories about her being another character or related to another character.
The 'previous character' bit is optional - I just thought it might explain why the Doctor seems to find Clara so fascinating. But the theory also works if Clara is just a normal human being- the zygons kidnap her at some point (when she is 16 perhaps, to fit in with the book?) , copy her, and plant zygons around the universe resembling her around, in the hope that at least one will meet up with the Doctor, and take her as a companion. They always say 'Run you clever boy, and remember', because they want the Doctor to become fascinated by the mystery, and adopt one of the zygons as a companion, to spring the trap later.

The zygons were part of the Alliance, so perhaps that is their role in the grand scheme?

I don't envisage the zygons having a major role in the finale - just at the end (big Clara reveal), in order to lead in to the anniversary special.
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Old 03-04-2013, 14:20
johnnysaucepn
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There are a few problems with this theory - as noted, Zygons don't stay in form when they die.
Also, these would have to be Zygons that don't know they're Zygons, they don't show any sign of knowing what's going on.
I don't think the GI would have failed to notice that he's downloading a Zygon mind instead of a human one.
The child Clara the Doctor met in the prequel had a mother (although, this could be a foster or adoptive mother, I suppose) who presumably knows where she came from.
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Old 03-04-2013, 16:15
sebbie3000
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If she is a
Spoiler
, then when her mind was downloaded, they would know. In fact, they knew about her skills and intelligence before she was downloaded.

So not likely at all, reall!
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Old 03-04-2013, 16:48
johnnysaucepn
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Oh, and the fact that the Daleks did the same thing to the future Clara too - download her mind, that is. A Zygon in a human in a Dalek? Oh, my!
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Old 03-04-2013, 17:11
nebogipfel
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Oh, and the fact that the Daleks did the same thing to the future Clara too - download her mind, that is. A Zygon in a human in a Dalek? Oh, my!
Ah...but if Alaska Clara was The Rani who has been a Zygon all along but a Time Head one who was fobwatched and then turned into a Dalek then it all falls into place.

I'm going for a lie down.

edit: but it's a shame that the Doctor didn't realise he was talking to a tessalecta dalek and the real Clara-Zygon-TimeHead-Rani-Fobwatched-Dalek was minaturised inside. Because if he had got her out he would have realised that she was merely a Goo replicant and the real one was working in a shop giving out the tardis phone number to herself

Anyone for a gargleblaster?
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Old 03-04-2013, 17:15
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I think the whole Zygon thing is a huge red herring in terms of their importance to the plot! As someone has already said on another thread, they are likely to be a simple side story which will bring 10 into the story, we'll probably meet him mid fight, like at the end of Blink! We've had them mentioned in TBB, elaborated on even further re the hotel story, and now we have a full on appearance!

I don't think they have anything at all to do with Clara, or even the plot!

I think whatever the plot is with Clara, it will be brand new to the series!
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Old 03-04-2013, 17:18
CoalHillJanitor
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Clara of the Zygons.
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Old 03-04-2013, 17:19
rwebster
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Arg - I know the thread's made in the best of intentions, but I think I've read this about every single new series companion ever. People said Amy was a zygon, and Donna. Don't know about Martha, but it's been a very popular theory. q:

I'm aware it's a little more plausible, now that we know the zygons are actually coming, but it's still a very strange plan. A zygon infiltrates the TARDIS, and uses its nefarious powers to... what, save the world repeatedly?! I don't know that that's coherent. Nor does it explain why her last words were the same each time. Or why she retained her shape in death. And Oswin sincerely believed she was a human, when she turned dalek. A zygon-turned-dalek would be holding onto her zygonity, not her humanity.

It's a nice idea, but I fear it's not really a dramatically satisfying one. But if you're right, I am happy to eat humble pie!
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Old 03-04-2013, 17:45
johnnysaucepn
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Ah...but if Alaska Clara was The Rani who has been a Zygon all along but a Time Head one who was fobwatched and then turned into a Dalek then it all falls into place.

But it's a shame that the Doctor didn't realise he was talking to a tessalecta dalek and the real Clara-Zygon-TimeHead-Rani-Fobwatched-Dalek was minaturised inside. Because if he had got her out he would have realised that she was merely a Goo replicant and the real one was working in a shop giving out the tardis phone number to herself.
Beautiful. I want to frame this.
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Old 03-04-2013, 17:47
ballamory
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Obviously I'm guessing as much as anyone else, but I do feel that Clara definitely has something to do with the anniversary. She isn't just the incumbent companion like Tegan and Turlough were at the time of the Five Doctors, the timing and the 'mystery' around her, and the fact that SM says we'll find out who she is by the end of 7b, suggests to me that she was introduced in Asylum of the Daleks precisely to lead in to the anniversary in some way.

We don't know how much the Zygons feature in the anniversary, whether it's just a lead-in sequence, or they're the main villains. Other people have pointed out the expense of creating a new zygon suit, if it's just for a lead-in sequence, It's been rumoured that the end of the 7b finale ties in to the 50th directly. I like the idea that the 'specialness' of Clara is a misdirection - Amy was also supposed to be special, and people often like to criticize SM for repeating themes, so it's natural for people to assume that Clara is also some sort of 'special' companion. But I think it's a nice twist if she's really some sort of trap, and the Doctor just thinks she's special, and therefore falls into the trap.

Given that Zygons can shapeshift and we've seen multiple Claras, it at least explains how she can die multiple times without invoking 'quantum multiplicity' or some such SF thing. I'm sure a throwaway line about 'Zygons learning how to take deep cover' or something is all it would take to explain why they didn't revert to form when she died.

Can't explain the download thing so well, though, unless zygons also adopt the same brain patterns as the mimicking species when they transform.

The plan? Perhaps someone wants the Doctor to go to Trenzalore and ask him the original question, but knows he won't go willingly, so they arrange to have an 'evil' companion by his side, that will kidnap him at an opportune moment, and take the TARDIS to Trenzalore at the right time?
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Old 03-04-2013, 18:29
Avidian
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All I know about Clara is...

Username: oswin
Password: rycbar123

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Old 03-04-2013, 19:59
Shawn_Lunn
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All I know about Clara is...

Username: oswin
Password: rycbar123

Hack her account, you might learn who she really is then
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Old 03-04-2013, 21:50
Avidian
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Hack her account, you might learn who she really is then
She's the secret love-child of Sally Sparrow and the Rani....she's also River Song and Nina's Nana
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Old 03-04-2013, 23:07
stellalad83
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Could the woman twice dead be gangers placed in time, by the Doctor at a future point in time?...thoughts?
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Old 03-04-2013, 23:24
johnnysaucepn
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I'll go on record as saying that they're never going to reveal a companion to be a villain. It's too important for the series that the viewer connects with the companion, not to mention too important for the merchandising! Imagine the look on the kiddies' faces when it turns out that their favourite character is a slimy alien!

Okay, granted, they did get away with it with Amy, but she was still Amy, just made out of goo.
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Old 04-04-2013, 00:45
sebbie3000
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Could the woman twice dead be gangers placed in time, by the Doctor at a future point in time?...thoughts?
No. Just no...

Both times she died, she stayed whole. When her mind was downloaded, she stayed whole. When she was turned into a Dalek, it was successful.

And besides, it has been done before. There is no way even a half-decent writer would bring a 'so-and-so is a Ganger!' twist into the story now. It would be lazy, dramatically unsatisfying, and quite frankly: rubbish.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:59
johnnysaucepn
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And besides, it has been done before. There is no way even a half-decent writer would bring a 'so-and-so is a Ganger!' twist into the story now. It would be lazy, dramatically unsatisfying, and quite frankly: rubbish.
It could be done, with enough foreshadowing, but there's no sign of that. Besides, the Doctor knows what the gangers are now, he knew Amy was a Flesh avatar even before he visited the acid factory. Surely that's one of the first things he would have checked for when trying to solve the mystery of Clara?
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:34
Paradise_Lost
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I'll go on record as saying that they're never going to reveal a companion to be a villain. It's too important for the series that the viewer connects with the companion, not to mention too important for the merchandising!
But I connect with villains. Especially if they're one of those anti-hero types rather than black/white tropes.

What would really be interesting is if Clara really is a "villain" who has laid a trap. But she isn't really bad unless all her constituent parts (for lack of a better term) are reconstituted into one. Her fragmented entities exist as innocent and real distinct identities across time and space. Versions of Clara that have no memory or knowledge of any of this. A bit like John Smith in the Family of Blood.

So in that scenario some or many of the Claras could team up with the Doctor to thwart Clara the Superbad!!
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:09
johnnysaucepn
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Having a character who is clearly a bit morally ambiguous is one thing. Having someone for a series, who we've seen to be a good-hearted, optimistic, close friend to the Doctor, and then make out that they're actually an evil monster underneath would be too much. Having a character turn temporarily evil is a common trope (possession and the like), as is someone like Jack who has got darker and more ambiguous over the years, but it doesn't change who they are underneath it all.

At least, for an ongoing character. You might just be able to get away with it for a single series, (or even a couple of episodes, like Adam in series 1), but the audience has to be able to trust the character if you want them to appear in future series.
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Old 04-04-2013, 18:59
sebbie3000
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It could be done, with enough foreshadowing, but there's no sign of that. Besides, the Doctor knows what the gangers are now, he knew Amy was a Flesh avatar even before he visited the acid factory. Surely that's one of the first things he would have checked for when trying to solve the mystery of Clara?
It is possible, I'll admit. But so is killing the Doctor stone-dead and ending the series! I seriously doubt any writer worth his or her salt would use a ganger-resolution so soon after it was done twice in one series.

And I stand by my opinions on the shoddiness of using it!
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Old 04-04-2013, 21:07
Shawn_Lunn
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Clara's a new character. She's not a previous character, related to a previous one or a Ganger or a Time Lady or an alien.

I think there's been enough to suggest that already.
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