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Old 04-04-2013, 14:21
andy741
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So what do we reckon on Doc 10 and Rose initially being Shape-Shifted Zygons?
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:26
kyllerbuzcut
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I thought that could be the case too. I think we should kill Rose on sight- just to be sure hehe
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:48
jrmswfc
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But wouldn't the Zygons take the form of Doctor 4, as he was the Doctor that they knew?

Even if the encounter with Doctor 10 in the Sting of the Zygons book is considered to be canon, they still wouldn't know who Rose was.
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:59
Listentome
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But wouldn't the Zygons take the form of Doctor 4, as he was the Doctor that they knew?

Even if the encounter with Doctor 10 in the Sting of the Zygons book is considered to be canon, they still wouldn't know who Rose was.
Presumably the Zygons would know what the Doctor now looks like. Remember in The Power of Three, Doctor 11, Amy and Rory encountered the Zygons under the Savoy (even though we didn't see the actual event).
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:03
Rorschach
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I did inituially react with joy in suspecting that they would be Zygons rather than Rose & Fake 10. But then I remembered that the Zygons have to keep their targets alive in order to maintain the forms, so even if they start out as Zygons the real ones will be along eventually.

(So they couldn't look like 4 unless they had 4 to hand...as I remember it)
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:25
johnnysaucepn
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Well, in the leaked pictures, we've seen
Spoiler
so it seems that unless they've also started duplicating them, it's the real deal.
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:33
andy741
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Well, in the leaked pictures, we've seen
Spoiler
so it seems that unless they've also started duplicating them, it's the real deal.
Well I thought that, but then if they grabbed doctor 10 when he was with Rose, mimicked them, and stole the TARDIS then that could work?
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:42
Corwin
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Well I thought that, but then if they grabbed doctor 10 when he was with Rose, mimicked them, and stole the TARDIS then that could work?
Rose may not even be with Doc #10 as it's speculated Doc#10 is from a post Waters of Mars point of his life.
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:54
Airborae
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Maybe its Doctor 11 and Clara who are the Zygon duplicates and Doctor 10 and Rose have to rescue them.
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Old 04-04-2013, 16:08
Rorschach
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Maybe its Doctor 11 and Clara who are the Zygon duplicates and Doctor 10 and Rose have to rescue them.
If they had 10 and Rose turn up to save the day because 11 and Clara weren't as good as them and couldn't handle it, there would be a bloody riot.
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Old 04-04-2013, 16:10
Tardy
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Rose may not even be with Doc #10 as it's speculated Doc#10 is from a post Waters of Mars point of his life.
A lot of people are saying rose may be a pre doctor 10 rose, but if that was the case would she not have recognised 10 when he regenerated from 9 .. Is that a bit too timey wimey for this time of an afternoon ....
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Old 04-04-2013, 16:43
Ariel23
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A lot of people are saying rose may be a pre doctor 10 rose, but if that was the case would she not have recognised 10 when he regenerated from 9 .. Is that a bit too timey wimey for this time of an afternoon ....
Memory wipe... or they will forget.
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Old 04-04-2013, 16:45
saladfingers81
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I really hope that Doctor Ten is just Doctor Ten. No Zygon or Meta-Doc or Flesh avatars or holograms or silliness. Just the real deal.
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Old 04-04-2013, 19:50
CELT1987
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Memory wipe... or they will forget.
There are no Time Lords around anymore to wipe the memories off the Doctor.
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Old 04-04-2013, 20:46
Ariel23
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There are no Time Lords around anymore to wipe the memories off the Doctor.
Yet the Fifth Doctor forgot his meeting with Ten in Time Crash and there were no Time Lords around for that The Doctor only remembered that encounter when he was Ten.
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Old 05-04-2013, 00:02
sebbie3000
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Yet the Fifth Doctor forgot his meeting with Ten in Time Crash and there were no Time Lords around for that The Doctor only remembered that encounter when he was Ten.
The fifth Doctor didn't remember, because it hadn't yet happened for him. The tenth remembered because it happened to him when he was the fifth.

No memory wipe needed.
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Old 05-04-2013, 00:19
LeslieGrufford
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10 can't meet 11 and retain the memories. In the TV movies 10 wasn't sure whether he was going to die permanently or regenerate, he told Wilfred this in the cafe. It seemed that he was leaning more on the side of believing his death would be permanent. "Even if I'm not killed, it feels like dying"... It has to be the clone or this would invalidate his plight in End of Time.

Unless of course 10 and 11 don't share screen time and Tennant is appearing in a flashback which would be a let down!
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:57
andy741
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See the one thing in my mind which makes this confusing until its explained is why wont 11 remember it?
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Old 05-04-2013, 14:18
jrmswfc
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See the one thing in my mind which makes this confusing until its explained is why wont 11 remember it?
Maybe it's the "clone" 10, and not the original?
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Old 05-04-2013, 14:30
Thrombin
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Wouldn't it be possible not to remember something if you are changing the course of events?

Assuming that 10 would remember meeting 11 also assumes that this had always happened but what if the actions of 11 causes a new thing to happen changing 10's timeline as it occurs.

It's like with the flying shark episode when the guy was remembering things that happened in the past as the Doctor did them in the past but the memories hadn't been there until the Doctor started changing his timeline.
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Old 05-04-2013, 14:58
C. Samurai
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If anything, I think the meeting with Eleven ends up justifying Ten's reluctance to regenerate in End of Time
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Old 05-04-2013, 16:44
LeslieGrufford
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If anything, I think the meeting with Eleven ends up justifying Ten's reluctance to regenerate in End of Time
That would change pivotal scenes. If he knew he was going to regenerate it wouldn't have been so big an issue for him. Wasn't just End of Time either. Remember 10 visited Sarah Jane in her own show and that last shot of him hammered home the fact he truly believed he was never going to see her again! The prophecy felt final to him. No more Doctor.

I also don't think 11 changing the timeline for 10 would work as memories changing on the spot. Surely there is an explanation that people who travel in the Tardis are protected from changes in timelines. Case in point when 10 changed a fixed point in time in Waters of Mars, it didn't alter his memories. He knew what he'd done!
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Old 05-04-2013, 17:02
tinny
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god bttf iss easier than tthis to wworrk out aax
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Old 05-04-2013, 17:13
C. Samurai
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That would change pivotal scenes. If he knew he was going to regenerate it wouldn't have been so big an issue for him!
But it was. Check the episode again, particular the bit where he's talking to Wilf in the cafe. He was perfectly aware he was going to regenerate, he just knew it would be the death of his current personality and he didnt want to lose it.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:07
LeslieGrufford
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But it was. Check the episode again, particular the bit where he's talking to Wilf in the cafe. He was perfectly aware he was going to regenerate, he just knew it would be the death of his current personality and he didnt want to lose it.
That's not true. Rewatch it. He says "I'm going to die!" Then he ponders the possibility of regeneration as "feeling like dying". But the scene definitely begins with him feeling his complete death could be imminent. It's a definite game over fear.
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