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Let's have an honest debate- Should the Grand National be axed?


View Poll Results: Should the Grand National be axed
Yes 12 15.38%
No 66 84.62%
Voters: 78. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in?

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Old 05-04-2013, 16:48
MWalker1066
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Second horse has died at the 2013 meeting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/horse-racing/22045330


Should the race be axed or not? Or should the jumps be scaled down?

Let's discuss.
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Old 05-04-2013, 16:53
Upnorthviewer
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There are six people killed on the roads on average every day. Let's ban cars he says sarkily.
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Old 05-04-2013, 16:56
MWalker1066
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There are six people killed on the roads on average every day. Let's ban cars he says sarkily.
But people watch horses die for their own entertainment, car accidents are pure accidentsand not watched for entertainment.
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Old 05-04-2013, 16:56
GreatGodPan
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Not just the Grand National - all racing over jumps should be banned.

But it won't be, as most gamblers don't seem to care about the deaths of horses, they just care about money, seemingly.

And that's what it's about, of course - gambling.

To call this a "sport" is laughable.
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Old 05-04-2013, 16:59
GreatGodPan
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There are six people killed on the roads on average every day. Let's ban cars he says sarkily.
These aren't horses having accidents in transport/farming roles, but are purely exploited for human greed.
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Old 05-04-2013, 16:59
twogunthom
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But people watch horses die for their own entertainment, car accidents are pure accidentsand not watched for entertainment.
Should beefburgers be banned then.
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Old 05-04-2013, 17:03
James1953
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No it should not be banned. Letting jockeys strike their horses with whips when they have no chance of winning should be tho'
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Old 05-04-2013, 17:04
Upnorthviewer
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These aren't horses having accidents in transport/farming roles, but are purely exploited for human greed.
The horses involved probably have much better lives than wild horses. No predators. Now nature does suck.
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Old 05-04-2013, 17:05
eugenespeed
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Should it be axed? No.

Should it be made safer? Yes.
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Old 05-04-2013, 17:46
k0213818
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As a casual fan of horse racing I don't think so, the National has for me been a national institution and that for me should always be the case, what I do think should happen however is that the course owners should have a complete overview of what should be done in the name of safety, as in my view the steps that they have made have been to a detrimental effect.

Most health and safety campaigners believe that by making the fences around the Melling Road Course smaller it means that it will be safer as the horses will get over easier, in fact I am of the belief that the opposite has happened as a result of that. I say this for two reasons; The first is that whilst in theory smaller fences mean an easier jump it also means that the horses are approaching the subsequent fences at a higher speed, and as all of us motorists know the higher a speed you are travelling the more chance of making a mistake and the more chance of injury.

The second reason is that because the fences are smaller and easier to get over it creates larger packs of horses racing with one another, and having a larger pack increases the chances of horses tripping over one another, hampering each other and in turn increasingly the likelyhood of the horse having an incident, as well as increasing the chances of a horse tripping over another faller and injuring itself in the process. In my view higher fences will break up the packs more, look at older National Races and see how spread the field was when the fences were higher.

This is probably a minority opinion, but I think it is a solution which should be considered.
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Old 05-04-2013, 18:09
degsyhufc
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But people watch horses die for their own entertainment, car accidents are pure accidentsand not watched for entertainment.
There have been deaths in motor sport. It's still going though. They just tweak the safety regulations.
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Old 05-04-2013, 18:41
Croctacus
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As a casual fan of horse racing I don't think so, the National has for me been a national institution and that for me should always be the case, what I do think should happen however is that the course owners should have a complete overview of what should be done in the name of safety, as in my view the steps that they have made have been to a detrimental effect.

Most health and safety campaigners believe that by making the fences around the Melling Road Course smaller it means that it will be safer as the horses will get over easier, in fact I am of the belief that the opposite has happened as a result of that. I say this for two reasons; The first is that whilst in theory smaller fences mean an easier jump it also means that the horses are approaching the subsequent fences at a higher speed, and as all of us motorists know the higher a speed you are travelling the more chance of making a mistake and the more chance of injury.

The second reason is that because the fences are smaller and easier to get over it creates larger packs of horses racing with one another, and having a larger pack increases the chances of horses tripping over one another, hampering each other and in turn increasingly the likelyhood of the horse having an incident, as well as increasing the chances of a horse tripping over another faller and injuring itself in the process. In my view higher fences will break up the packs more, look at older National Races and see how spread the field was when the fences were higher.

This is probably a minority opinion, but I think it is a solution which should be considered.
I'm with you on this. By trying to make it easier it was also made more dangerous.
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Old 05-04-2013, 18:46
Pink Knight
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I voted no, but I don't really care either way.
Horse deaths are bad, but that's not the aim of the sport. It can hardly be classed with dog and cock fighting.
I heard a debate the other day saying that if the fences were made shorter we may still have horse deaths. As the one the other day had a heartattack going too fast to cope rather than jumping.
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Old 05-04-2013, 19:21
Psycho_Ned
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Making the course easier hasn't improved the safety at all. They first started meddling with the course in 1990 when they started to level the landing side of Beechers since then 21 horses have died in the national.

Prior to 1990 in the previous 23 years 14 horses died and the fences were a hell of a lot bigger then (watch Rummys nationals on youtube and compare the fences to now!) now to me that's a big enough sample to suggest that meddling with the fences hasn't worked.
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Old 05-04-2013, 20:57
notin
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But people watch horses die for their own entertainment, car accidents are pure accidentsand not watched for entertainment.
I do not watch a horse race to see horses die or get hurt for entertainment. I watch a race because I love the tension, the excitement and the energy of the experience. I always find it terribly upsetting when a horse does die or has to be put down due to injury. Do I watch formula one to view death, no, but it sadly has happened. The GN is an historic sporting event, yes, I do believe that the jumps should be simplified to minimise injury to both horse and rider, however, I personally do not think this race should be stopped. Because the GN is such an institution an ingrained part of British racing then it should continue, sadly in any sport there are fatalities and that is part of life. The riders and trainers fully understand the issues, let them get on with it, it is all about choice after all.
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Old 05-04-2013, 22:56
jeffiner1892
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They maybe need to make it safer (for both horse and rider) but no need for a ban.

If you were to ban horse racing think how many abandoned horses you'd get. Contrary to what some might believe the owners actually do care for their horses.
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Old 05-04-2013, 23:30
DDRickyDD
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Yes it should be axed. It's very cruel to the horses, who are forced to risk their life in the name of 'sport'.
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Old 05-04-2013, 23:37
mcg3
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It woud be interesting to see what would happen should a jockey die during the national.
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Old 06-04-2013, 00:01
kingjeremy
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People comparing it to motor sport or using the excuse that it is a "national institution" are way off, motor cars aren't sentient beings with no choice whether they ride or not and I really don't need to go into just how many archaic national institutions have gone before, which now, thankfully, no longer have a place in society.

This isn't me necessarily saying I believe it should be done right away with, just the comparison with other dangerous sports really isn't comparable or relevant, neither is it being a national institution a good reason to keep it.

If you were to ban horse racing think how many abandoned horses you'd get. Contrary to what some might believe the owners actually do care for their horses.
Did you even read that sentence back before you posted? They care about their horses so much they would abandon them if they couldn't make money out of them?
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Old 06-04-2013, 00:18
jeffiner1892
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That's not what I said at all. If there weren't people owning racehorses there would be more abandoned horses in the country.

I know a man who had a horse run in the Grand National and both his horses get top class care. They would most likely have starved to death had he not bought them.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:16
kingjeremy
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Oh believe me I have no doubts the horses are taken care of and treated well but there is a difference between caring for something and taking care of something. I believe most care far more about racing and what the horse can offer them than the horse itself, if somebody really cared about horses they wouldn't send them out to risk their lives for the sake of entertainment/money, they are treated well because a well treated horse is obviously going to be in better condition.

You said it yourself, think how many abandoned horses there would be if not for racing, in other words, if it wasn't for the racing, most of these people wouldn't have horses.

No horse wants to be whipped, you whip a horse so it bows to its human master and runs faster, not because you care!
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:41
habby
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Tesco & Findus are standing by in case anything happens to the horses in the Grand National.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:54
5th time lucky
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Who gives a damn, really?

How longs the National been running? and only just lately in this tedious PC world we now live in we have to hear this drivel.

I bet the ones that pipe up making all the noise go home and eat beef burgers, bacon, chicken etc... animals are killed by the millions each and every day but lets make a big deal out of a horse or 2 in the National, its so pathetic and pointless in the grand scheme of things, 99% of the complainers dont really care, its just another bandwagon to jump on for the sake of it.
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:17
pembo2004
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Who gives a damn, really?

How longs the National been running? and only just lately in this tedious PC world we now live in we have to hear this drivel.

I bet the ones that pipe up making all the noise go home and eat beef burgers, bacon, chicken etc... animals are killed by the millions each and every day but lets make a big deal out of a horse or 2 in the National, its so pathetic and pointless in the grand scheme of things, 99% of the complainers dont really care, its just another bandwagon to jump on for the sake of it.
the national was first run in 1836 so axe it? no but make it safer
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:35
Davonator
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Its always the same story though, most of those who oppose it make a big fuss over the Grand National weekend when it comes round, then when it's all over pipe down for the other 363 days of the year.

If you don't like the Grand National and want it to be abolished you should be actively (not passively) campaigning against it all year round. Setting up your stall for a couple of days once a year then dismantling it a few days later is not going to get it banned.
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