I gave up listing to the Du Bois show it was all him and no Ken at all when I tuned in. Blatent right wing favouritism.
LBC 97.3 Politics Thread
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Originally Posted by makeba72:
“Really? From my point of view, I think the bloody cheek was from Nick Du Bois banging on about having no mandate and trying to pretend the turn-out in his own constituency isn't important. Or in Boris' election. Surely that really is gross hypocrisy, isn't it?
BTW, I'm not saying either of them are right! But it's still gross hypocrisy of Du Bois.”
“Really? From my point of view, I think the bloody cheek was from Nick Du Bois banging on about having no mandate and trying to pretend the turn-out in his own constituency isn't important. Or in Boris' election. Surely that really is gross hypocrisy, isn't it?
BTW, I'm not saying either of them are right! But it's still gross hypocrisy of Du Bois.”
It doesn't matter makeba. The point is it's Bob Crowe who's acting on the majority vote of a 30% turn out and holding Londoners to ransom. It is he who should be able to justify this action when asked, NOT get all defensive and deflect the question.
It let's him down badly and makes you wonder if there isn't a reason only 30% of his ballot supported him.
Originally Posted by Nosedive:
“It doesn't matter makeba. The point is it's Bob Crowe who's acting on the majority vote of a 30% turn out and holding Londoners to ransom. It is he who should be able to justify this action when asked, NOT get all defensive and deflect the question.”
“It doesn't matter makeba. The point is it's Bob Crowe who's acting on the majority vote of a 30% turn out and holding Londoners to ransom. It is he who should be able to justify this action when asked, NOT get all defensive and deflect the question.”
I'm afraid I disagree entirely. You could just as well substitute Boris or any other politician in the post above, who are trying to impose change. My impression from LBC and BBC London callers is that the public don't want this change. You could just as easily argue that it is Boris who is 'holding Londoners to ransom' (another of those rabble-rousing phrases the media love that doesn't reflect the nuanced truth).
Either the rule on turnout applies to all or to none. I don't see any validity in trying to impose that rule selectively.
By that logic, I doubt any of our elected representatives have any right to be there at all.
Originally Posted by Nosedive:
“It doesn't matter makeba. The point is it's Bob Crowe who's acting on the majority vote of a 30% turn out and holding Londoners to ransom. It is he who should be able to justify this action when asked, NOT get all defensive and deflect the question.
It let's him down badly and makes you wonder if there isn't a reason only 30% of his ballot supported him.”
“It doesn't matter makeba. The point is it's Bob Crowe who's acting on the majority vote of a 30% turn out and holding Londoners to ransom. It is he who should be able to justify this action when asked, NOT get all defensive and deflect the question.
It let's him down badly and makes you wonder if there isn't a reason only 30% of his ballot supported him.”
What about the Tory MPs elected on 35 percent of the possible vote pushing through welfare cuts that affect millions of people.
Originally Posted by Nosedive:
“I was annoyed they let Bob Crowe get away with this. Given the whole idea was that he was on there to explain himself, and respond to complaints on behalf of beleagured tube users, I think he had a bl**dy cheek throwing the question back like that and not attempting to answer it.
They really should have challenged him more and refused to pander to his railroading. It was very disappointing. I really wish Mellor had been on today.
”
“I was annoyed they let Bob Crowe get away with this. Given the whole idea was that he was on there to explain himself, and respond to complaints on behalf of beleagured tube users, I think he had a bl**dy cheek throwing the question back like that and not attempting to answer it.
They really should have challenged him more and refused to pander to his railroading. It was very disappointing. I really wish Mellor had been on today.
”
And to think that this London centric crap is being touted as a national radio station from next week. Thank God for the BEEB.
Originally Posted by makeba72:
“I'm afraid I disagree entirely. You could just as well substitute Boris or any other politician in the post above, who are trying to impose change.”
“I'm afraid I disagree entirely. You could just as well substitute Boris or any other politician in the post above, who are trying to impose change.”
I'm sure it's not 'the done thing' to quote oneself, but I had another thought.
Boris represents us, so his turnout/mandate is even more important than the RMT's. Especially when he was elected on NOT closing ticket offices...
Originally Posted by makeba72:
“I'm sure it's not 'the done thing' to quote oneself, but I had another thought.
Boris represents us, so his turnout/mandate is even more important than the RMT's. Especially when he was elected on NOT closing ticket offices...”
“I'm sure it's not 'the done thing' to quote oneself, but I had another thought.
Boris represents us, so his turnout/mandate is even more important than the RMT's. Especially when he was elected on NOT closing ticket offices...”
You can quote yourself, you will find you will not disagree with the previous statement that way!
When Boris was elected technology had not moved on like it has now. We probably didn't have iPads/Phones, or contact less payment cards etc. Basically the staff that were in the ticket offices are better employed in the ticket hall / platform areas. One could provide an argument for keeping some ticket staff at Heathrow, for example where foreign visitors may need to purchase a ticket - but even that could be done by one of the station staff popping into the office to issue a ticket, or explaining to the visitor how to use the ticket machine.
Originally Posted by david1956:
“And to think that this London centric crap is being touted as a national radio station from next week. Thank God for the BEEB.”
“And to think that this London centric crap is being touted as a national radio station from next week. Thank God for the BEEB.”
Erm, at the moment it is a London local radio station.
Originally Posted by MartinRosen:
“When Boris was elected technology had not moved on like it has now. We probably didn't have iPads/Phones, or contact less payment cards etc.”
“When Boris was elected technology had not moved on like it has now. We probably didn't have iPads/Phones, or contact less payment cards etc.”
No, that's just not true (in fact, I think it was Ken who first talked about closing some of the ticket offices). You make it sound like he was elected a decade ago!
Originally Posted by Nosedive:
“It doesn't matter makeba. The point is it's Bob Crowe who's acting on the majority vote of a 30% turn out and holding Londoners to ransom. It is he who should be able to justify this action when asked, NOT get all defensive and deflect the question.
It let's him down badly and makes you wonder if there isn't a reason only 30% of his ballot supported him.”
“It doesn't matter makeba. The point is it's Bob Crowe who's acting on the majority vote of a 30% turn out and holding Londoners to ransom. It is he who should be able to justify this action when asked, NOT get all defensive and deflect the question.
It let's him down badly and makes you wonder if there isn't a reason only 30% of his ballot supported him.”
In all fairness, it would take an extremely thick politician to complain about others winning a vote with a minority of the electorate. Either that, or one with a complete contempt for the public's intelligence. Sounds to me like a desperation tactic from Bois.
Originally Posted by MartinRosen:
“You can quote yourself, you will find you will not disagree with the previous statement that way!
When Boris was elected technology had not moved on like it has now. We probably didn't have iPads/Phones, or contact less payment cards etc. Basically the staff that were in the ticket offices are better employed in the ticket hall / platform areas. One could provide an argument for keeping some ticket staff at Heathrow, for example where foreign visitors may need to purchase a ticket - but even that could be done by one of the station staff popping into the office to issue a ticket, or explaining to the visitor how to use the ticket machine.”
“You can quote yourself, you will find you will not disagree with the previous statement that way!
When Boris was elected technology had not moved on like it has now. We probably didn't have iPads/Phones, or contact less payment cards etc. Basically the staff that were in the ticket offices are better employed in the ticket hall / platform areas. One could provide an argument for keeping some ticket staff at Heathrow, for example where foreign visitors may need to purchase a ticket - but even that could be done by one of the station staff popping into the office to issue a ticket, or explaining to the visitor how to use the ticket machine.”
He made the same commitment in 2010, I certainly remember having a smart phone back then. But then, I really can't see what mobile telephones have to do with this dispute anyway.
A mobile phone can't tell what platform the train to Earl's Court is leaving from, nor can it tell what the quickest way to Kings Cross is. Nor can it tell me why half the rail network is shut down on a Saturday and Sunday and how I get to to the platform I need. The machines, phones, credit cards or Oyster cards can't lead a train full of stranded passenegers out of a tunnel.
Originally Posted by makeba72:
“Either the rule on turnout applies to all or to none. I don't see any validity in trying to impose that rule selectively.
”
“Either the rule on turnout applies to all or to none. I don't see any validity in trying to impose that rule selectively.
”
I'm sorry but I still feel that in this case the spotlight was on him - Bob Crowe - to illucidate this point on behalf of the public. He was given ample space and still should have attempted to answer/justify it, not bat it away with aggression like a scolded little boy.
That showed an arrogance and he let himself down badly.
Even Borris on the Sunday Politics Show this morning answered once again the question about going against his word.
I'm no fan of Borris by the way. I've always considered him a clown. I thought Ken had done a good enough job and could have easily gone on for at least another term.
Anyway, I respect that we disagree on this.
Originally Posted by Nessun Dorma:
“He made the same commitment in 2010, I certainly remember having a smart phone back then. But then, I really can't see what mobile telephones have to do with this dispute anyway.
A mobile phone can't tell what platform the train to Earl's Court is leaving from, nor can it tell what the quickest way to Kings Cross is. Nor can it tell me why half the rail network is shut down on a Saturday and Sunday and how I get to to the platform I need. The machines, phones, credit cards or Oyster cards can't lead a train full of stranded passenegers out of a tunnel.”
“He made the same commitment in 2010, I certainly remember having a smart phone back then. But then, I really can't see what mobile telephones have to do with this dispute anyway.
A mobile phone can't tell what platform the train to Earl's Court is leaving from, nor can it tell what the quickest way to Kings Cross is. Nor can it tell me why half the rail network is shut down on a Saturday and Sunday and how I get to to the platform I need. The machines, phones, credit cards or Oyster cards can't lead a train full of stranded passenegers out of a tunnel.”
So they're getting rid of all the staff on the platforms too. Didn't realise that.
Originally Posted by MartinRosen:
“When Boris was elected technology had not moved on like it has now. We probably didn't have iPads/Phones, or contact less payment cards etc.”
“When Boris was elected technology had not moved on like it has now. We probably didn't have iPads/Phones, or contact less payment cards etc.”
Not so. Oyster Cards came in during Ken's first term as mayor. I believe they were the first major use of the contactless type card in London. As they are so widely used now on TFL journeys it's probably the main reason why booking clerks and ticket collectors have become redundant. However booking staff still can serve a useful purpose as far as tourist enquiries at stations are concerned.
Originally Posted by Lone Drinker:
“So they're getting rid of all the staff on the platforms too. Didn't realise that.”
“So they're getting rid of all the staff on the platforms too. Didn't realise that.”
They're not, they want the staff out on the stations including platforms rather than just in the ticket offices.
So Barbados Bob is telling porkies then when he says partly sighted people won't be able to use the machines because there's no help around ? Who'd have thunk it ?
Originally Posted by Lone Drinker:
“So Barbados Bob is telling porkies then when he says partly sighted people won't be able to use the machines because there's no help around ? Who'd have thunk it ?”
“So Barbados Bob is telling porkies then when he says partly sighted people won't be able to use the machines because there's no help around ? Who'd have thunk it ?”
Who cares where he goes,Nick Ferrari tried to character assassinate him last week and failed, if he was my union leader i would be wheeling wheelbarrows full of cash to him.
Will there be help around? On the main lines when most of the ticket offices closed any help also disappeared,there are many main line stains near me on the main Liverpool St - Cambridge line without a staff member in sight,that could be the Boris big plan but of course he is not going to say that is he.?
Originally Posted by Talma:
“They're not, they want the staff out on the stations including platforms rather than just in the ticket offices.”
“They're not, they want the staff out on the stations including platforms rather than just in the ticket offices.”
Thats what they are telling everyone at the moment.
My experience of main line trains on the overground is when the ticket offices closed,so in the end did any member of staff on the platform,as they left they were just not replaced.
Originally Posted by Nosedive:
“It doesn't matter makeba. The point is it's Bob Crowe who's acting on the majority vote of a 30% turn out and holding Londoners to ransom. It is he who should be able to justify this action when asked, NOT get all defensive and deflect the question.
It let's him down badly and makes you wonder if there isn't a reason only 30% of his ballot supported him.”
“It doesn't matter makeba. The point is it's Bob Crowe who's acting on the majority vote of a 30% turn out and holding Londoners to ransom. It is he who should be able to justify this action when asked, NOT get all defensive and deflect the question.
It let's him down badly and makes you wonder if there isn't a reason only 30% of his ballot supported him.”
Hmm are many MPs not voted in on less then that vote.?
Not to mention one police and crime commissioner who got elected on a13% vote.
You sound like Boris holding London to ransom is a phrase he used.
Fair enough if you think Boris it a virtual paragon of honesty.
If the strike was illegal then TFL would have been in court before Boris could get over the thames in the little used cable car.
Originally Posted by Richard1960:
“Who cares where he goes,Nick Ferrari tried to character assassinate him last week and failed, if he was my union leader i would be wheeling wheelbarrows full of cash to him.
Will there be help around? On the main lines when most of the ticket offices closed any help also disappeared,there are many main line stains near me on the main Liverpool St - Cambridge line without a staff member in sight,that could be the Boris big plan but of course he is not going to say that is he.?”
“Who cares where he goes,Nick Ferrari tried to character assassinate him last week and failed, if he was my union leader i would be wheeling wheelbarrows full of cash to him.
Will there be help around? On the main lines when most of the ticket offices closed any help also disappeared,there are many main line stains near me on the main Liverpool St - Cambridge line without a staff member in sight,that could be the Boris big plan but of course he is not going to say that is he.?”
They have said the major terminals would be exceptions.
Originally Posted by FrankBT:
“Not so. Oyster Cards came in during Ken's first term as mayor. I believe they were the first major use of the contactless type card in London. As they are so widely used now on TFL journeys it's probably the main reason why booking clerks and ticket collectors have become redundant. However booking staff still can serve a useful purpose as far as tourist enquiries at stations are concerned.”
“Not so. Oyster Cards came in during Ken's first term as mayor. I believe they were the first major use of the contactless type card in London. As they are so widely used now on TFL journeys it's probably the main reason why booking clerks and ticket collectors have become redundant. However booking staff still can serve a useful purpose as far as tourist enquiries at stations are concerned.”
They simultaneously introduced Oyster cards and made it more difficult and more expensive to get normal tickets, so most people were always going to use Oyster. I don't commute by tube but when I do use it I'm never quite sure my Oyster deducts the right amount every time and it's a pain topping it up and messing about online checking it rather than just buying a travelcard on the day like I used to.
Originally Posted by Talma:
“They have said the major terminals would be exceptions.”
“They have said the major terminals would be exceptions.”
Yes no doubt about that glad you believe them.
But a lot of ticket offices that close will have no platform staff otherwise why let up to 1,000 people take voluntary redundancy.
Also as Bob Crow has said and TFL have not refuted is that some ticket office staff will have to reapply for their jobs,with lower pay rates.
There is some truth and untruth on both sides with respect.
Originally Posted by Richard1960:
“But a lot of ticket offices that close will have no platform staff otherwise why let up to 1,000 people take voluntary redundancy.
Also as Bob Crow has said and TFL have not refuted is that some ticket office staff will have to reapply for their jobs,with lower pay rates.
There is some truth and untruth on both sides with respect.”
“But a lot of ticket offices that close will have no platform staff otherwise why let up to 1,000 people take voluntary redundancy.
Also as Bob Crow has said and TFL have not refuted is that some ticket office staff will have to reapply for their jobs,with lower pay rates.
There is some truth and untruth on both sides with respect.
”
Absolutely, and I think that's key.
I agree that sometimes things change. As Bob C said himself, there are no chimney sweeps on the payroll, and technology moves on. I don't always support the Tube strikes, but on this one, I am with them, and my impression is that most callers have been, too, on LBC and BBC London.
When I think of the vanity projects that Boris has spent on - the new bus and the cable car, for example - it does seem to me that keeping high staffing levels on an increasingly busy Tube should have been more worthy of that spending. So now we are going to see 24-hour tubes at weekends, but 1,000 fewer staff.
As a few callers are saying, more and more people are being pushed to do ridiculous amounts of work for less pay, in a city where the cost of living is becoming prohibitive. Regardless of politics, this needs to be dealt with, and that won't happen while we seek to push people to do more hours for less money.
Originally Posted by Richard1960:
“Yes no doubt about that glad you believe them.
But a lot of ticket offices that close will have no platform staff otherwise why let up to 1,000 people take voluntary redundancy.
Also as Bob Crow has said and TFL have not refuted is that some ticket office staff will have to reapply for their jobs,with lower pay rates.
There is some truth and untruth on both sides with respect.”
“Yes no doubt about that glad you believe them.
But a lot of ticket offices that close will have no platform staff otherwise why let up to 1,000 people take voluntary redundancy.
Also as Bob Crow has said and TFL have not refuted is that some ticket office staff will have to reapply for their jobs,with lower pay rates.
There is some truth and untruth on both sides with respect.
”
Who said I believe them? You take a lot for granted, I 'm just giving the other point of view. And they've also said it's 450 or so redundancies and those interested in VER are twice as many, and from my experience I can believe that.
Just to show you shouldn't always slavishly believe what Crow says either, likely as you say, neither side is being 100% truthful, are they?
The technology exists for driverless trains and they have been in operation for a decade in Paris without a serious incident. Getting rid of the overpaid drivers would save a fortune and not allow a few union bully boys the power to paralyse the transport system of one of the world's major cities.
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