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LBC 97.3 Politics Thread
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wendy09
26-11-2014
oh dear JHB about to run with government idiotic idea that radical islam is at fault despite even the uk intel services saying prime motivation is government foreign policy.

why isnt anyone asking why the tories want police state level authoritarian control .. i doubt its about terrorism since anti terror laws are already in place.
Styker
26-11-2014
Originally Posted by Charlie Drake:
“Absolutely, although I suspect Ken wouldn't know either. "The Knowledge' takes at least three years to learn, and is something that we should be proud of (although I fear its days are numbered). London is not just the West End (which is already complicated) but includes all of Greater London and the boroughs, airports, hotels, hospitals, restaurants, museums etc. Anyone who has driven for ten years after gaining the knowledge will have a very impressive 'database' in their brain.
This is, of course, why ministers have advisors - so they shouldn't start acting as if they, themselves, know it all.”

Ken answered "NO" to the question on would No entry signs on certain roads cut down congestion but he seemed to have said it with an impressed laugh so maybe Norris was right that No entry signs here and there would have done the trick too?

Originally Posted by chinchin:
“I did hear Duncan Barkes discussing the massive #CameronMustGo twitter campaign which has seen this hashtag trending for days, yet strangely no mention of it on the BBC. I wonder why? Apparently foreign news organisations have been reporting this.”


Duncan barkes infuriated me with his stance. He can't have been watching PM Q's and Cameron's latest conference speeches then as Cameron does keep on using his son to deflect criticism about the Tories cutting disability benefits and cuts to the NHS. Even Cameron's wife kinda hesitated/gulped before she clapped him when he bought it up in his conference speech.

Gordon Brown lost his daughter within days of her being born, did he ever use her to defend himself at PM Q's or at Labour confrences?!
Styker
26-11-2014
Originally Posted by wendy09:
“oh dear JHB about to run with government idiotic idea that radical islam is at fault despite even the uk intel services saying prime motivation is government foreign policy.

why isnt anyone asking why the tories want police state level authoritarian control .. i doubt its about terrorism since anti terror laws are already in place.”

I disagree with you on this one. Brain washing gits signed up to the saudi wahibism version of islam seem to have been lurking around universities since the mid 1980's trying to brainwash and guilt trip moderate westernised muslims into becoming extremists. Many have become extreme this way and in jails too this has been going on and Anjem Chwodury and one of the killers of Lee Rigby being together in public and shown in footage in news reports says a lot in itself too as one example.
Charlie Drake
26-11-2014
Originally Posted by Styker:
“Ken answered "NO" to the question on would No entry signs on certain roads cut down congestion but he seemed to have said it with an impressed laugh so maybe Norris was right that No entry signs here and there would have done the trick too?”

It's an interesting concept. I also reckon that Ken's plans to extend the Western Congestion Charge Zone went against him in his Mayoral election campaign - especially from small shop/restaurant etc. owners.
As it stands now, I think it's rather too easy to inadvertently enter the zone, so perhaps strategically-placed 'No Entry' signs and incorporating a 'buffer zone' might have been an improvement.
tahiti
26-11-2014
Originally Posted by wendy09:
“oh dear JHB about to run with government idiotic idea that radical islam is at fault despite even the uk intel services saying prime motivation is government foreign policy.

why isnt anyone asking why the tories want police state level authoritarian control .. i doubt its about terrorism since anti terror laws are already in place.”

Governments need enemies, real ones if possible, imagined ones if need be, a mix of the two ideally, so they can call for 'unity' [code for silencing dissent] and show leadership [ and then one had better enjoy being led or else].

Quote:
“Therefore, my Harry, Be it thy course, to busy giddy minds
With foreign quarrels; that action, hence borne out, May waste the memory of the former days.”

Hence the goverment's mixture of imagined enemies ( WMDs at the ready in 45 mns, moderate muslims) , real enemies ( a tiny minority of home-grown extremists ) etc to make us all forget their catastrophic and disastrous war in Iraq.
Styker
26-11-2014
Originally Posted by Charlie Drake:
“It's an interesting concept. I also reckon that Ken's plans to extend the Western Congestion Charge Zone went against him in his Mayoral election campaign - especially from small shop/restaurant etc. owners.
As it stands now, I think it's rather too easy to inadvertently enter the zone, so perhaps strategically-placed 'No Entry' signs and incorporating a 'buffer zone' might have been an improvement.”

That and Ken wanting to put a £25 daily charge on 4x4 vehicles is what I think really done it for him in losing the 2008 Mayoral election and people obviously didn't trust him enough on that in 2012 either. He was going too far on that and I've never heard anyone ask him if he thinks it was that that cost him the elections but I think it was.

He only lost by 60 thousand votes on this PR type of election in 2012 so had he not tried it in the first place, he should have won the 2012 election at the very least.
wendy09
26-11-2014
Originally Posted by Styker:
“I disagree with you on this one. Brain washing gits signed up to the saudi wahibism version of islam seem to have been lurking around universities since the mid 1980's trying to brainwash and guilt trip moderate westernised muslims into becoming extremists. Many have become extreme this way and in jails too this has been going on and Anjem Chwodury and one of the killers of Lee Rigby being together in public and shown in footage in news reports says a lot in itself too as one example.”

the only problem with your thesis is that they (extremists) all point finger at government foreign policy as reason for their actions. the religion is the facilitator not the motivator. intel agencies and research agree with this narrative. though they all say its complex and theres no one route.

this government prefers your narrative and is through prevent/channel seeking to stop radicalisation. obviously it wont work and will only result in harsher policies directed at muslims. its the political grievance that needs to be resolved.

obviously government does not want to be responsible or made accountable. lbc does not air opinion or have informed perspectives that challenge current government thinking.

anjem c can only be a uk intel plant .. theres surely no other reason he has been left to spread his ideology to his handful of followers

Originally Posted by tahiti:
“Governments need enemies, real ones if possible, imagined ones if need be, a mix of the two ideally, so they can call for 'unity' [code for silencing dissent] and show leadership [ and then one had better enjoy being led or else].



Hence the goverment's mixture of imagined enemies ( WMDs at the ready in 45 mns, moderate muslims) , real enemies ( a tiny minority of home-grown extremists ) etc to make us all forget their catastrophic and disastrous war in Iraq.”

good points.
Styker
27-11-2014
Originally Posted by wendy09:
“the only problem with your thesis is that they (extremists) all point finger at government foreign policy as reason for their actions. the religion is the facilitator not the motivator. intel agencies and research agree with this narrative. though they all say its complex and theres no one route.

this government prefers your narrative and is through prevent/channel seeking to stop radicalisation. obviously it wont work and will only result in harsher policies directed at muslims. its the political grievance that needs to be resolved.

obviously government does not want to be responsible or made accountable. lbc does not air opinion or have informed perspectives that challenge current government thinking.

anjem c can only be a uk intel plant .. theres surely no other reason he has been left to spread his ideology to his handful of followers



good points.”


I really don't agree with that. Terrorists come up with excuse after excuse, their real agenda is complete control of countries worldwide.

I don't agree about Chowdury being a pant either, why would the Government want to do that for?
wendy09
27-11-2014
Originally Posted by Styker:
“I really don't agree with that. Terrorists come up with excuse after excuse, their real agenda is complete control of countries worldwide.

I don't agree about Chowdury being a pant either, why would the Government want to do that for?”

the one constant amongst these terrorists - is british foreign policy.

if one winds back to obl , his major gripe was usa foreign policy in the region, its support for dictators and its military on saudi soil. the taliban gripe was usa denying them a fair share of the revenue from the proposed tapi - pipeline from turkmenistan to pakistan. usa attacked after considerable sanctions, five years of drought and importantly the taliban signing a contract with rivals to usa oil corp. blair and clinton had considered attacking afghanistan and iraq pre 9/11 but had no way of justifying a war. bush had 'war gamed' afghanistan in december 2000.

the taliban were not responsible for 9/11 nor were they unwilling to hand over obl providing the usa could provide evidence for their claims. usa thought war was the better option.

and no im not claiming a 9/11 conspiracy.

anjum chaudray allows the intel agencies to use hm as a honeypot attracting all of the nutjobs to his cause. easier to monitor. dont forget that the majority of the high profile 'extremists' have in one way or another been approached and in some cases recruited by uk intel. even the killers of lee rigby were asked by uk intel, they ( & associates) refused and were subsequently harrassed for not doing so (was part of their grievance along with uk foreign policy)
wendy09
27-11-2014
iain dale has a very narrow world view , and almost an immediate knee jerk reaction of closIng debate down if its challenged.

interesting that he didnt get the support he was expecting from his guest jeremy corbyn and with zoe williams stating the obvious tonight. (apart from the other tory neocon traveller .. forget her name)
tahiti
28-11-2014
The hypocrisy of David Cameron is simply staggering. His speech is simply irrelevant.

It has been shown comprehensively over the past few weeks that it is British natives who are a drain on the economy and that EU migrants are net contributors. What have EU benefit claimants, assuming there are any, got to do with anything?
Nessun Dorma
29-11-2014
As James O'Brien likes to quote, "they are slaying the dragon, but this dragon is just as mythical as the others."
wendy09
29-11-2014
Originally Posted by tahiti:
“The hypocrisy of David Cameron is simply staggering. His speech is simply irrelevant.

It has been shown comprehensively over the past few weeks that it is British natives who are a drain on the economy and that EU migrants are net contributors. What have EU benefit claimants, assuming there are any, got to do with anything?”

farage. and the hard right that the tories rely upon at general elections lost to ukip.
makeba72
29-11-2014
A banker, a teacher and an immigrant are sitting at a table on which sits a plate with ten biscuits on it. While the teacher and immigrant are deep in conversation, the banker stuffs nine of the biscuits into his mouth and pockets. Then he leans over and whispers into the ear of the teacher:

"Watch out; that immigrant is after your biscuit."
wendy09
29-11-2014
SimonD is badly informed if he really thinks the failed neocon Prevent programme is something to be funded to a greater extent.

wholly ignorant.
Styker
01-12-2014
Originally Posted by wendy09:
“the one constant amongst these terrorists - is british foreign policy.

if one winds back to obl , his major gripe was usa foreign policy in the region, its support for dictators and its military on saudi soil. the taliban gripe was usa denying them a fair share of the revenue from the proposed tapi - pipeline from turkmenistan to pakistan. usa attacked after considerable sanctions, five years of drought and importantly the taliban signing a contract with rivals to usa oil corp. blair and clinton had considered attacking afghanistan and iraq pre 9/11 but had no way of justifying a war. bush had 'war gamed' afghanistan in december 2000.

the taliban were not responsible for 9/11 nor were they unwilling to hand over obl providing the usa could provide evidence for their claims. usa thought war was the better option.

and no im not claiming a 9/11 conspiracy.

anjum chaudray allows the intel agencies to use hm as a honeypot attracting all of the nutjobs to his cause. easier to monitor. dont forget that the majority of the high profile 'extremists' have in one way or another been approached and in some cases recruited by uk intel. even the killers of lee rigby were asked by uk intel, they ( & associates) refused and were subsequently harrassed for not doing so (was part of their grievance along with uk foreign policy)”

Re Chowdury. If what you say is true, then why do the Government(s) keep on banning his groups?

If he is in cahoots with the agencies then he is not doing a very good job tipping them off in who are the real nutters out there then is he?
Styker
01-12-2014
I've given up listening to Nick Clegg and his phone inn show. The way I see it, he and his party are completely irrelevent and do not deserve to be listened to nor given the time of day.

I sure do hope that come the General Election, people in areas with Lib Dems as their MP just vote for Labour and don't vote "tactically" again (like they did in the Eastleigh by election) in order to try and keep the Tories out by voting for the Lib Dems.

If every Lib Dem voter just votes Labour instead, then hopefully Labour will gain the Lib Dems seats and the Lib Dem's will finally realise that them selling out was not wanted or asked for by the public at all!
chinchin
01-12-2014
Originally Posted by Styker:
“I've given up listening to Nick Clegg and his phone inn show. The way I see it, he and his party are completely irrelevent and do not deserve to be listened to nor given the time of day.

I sure do hope that come the General Election, people in areas with Lib Dems as their MP just vote for Labour and don't vote "tactically" again (like they did in the Eastleigh by election) in order to try and keep the Tories out by voting for the Lib Dems.

If every Lib Dem voter just votes Labour instead, then hopefully Labour will gain the Lib Dems seats and the Lib Dem's will finally realise that them selling out was not wanted or asked for by the public at all!”

Hear! Hear! Unfortunately idiotic people will vote UKIP and UKIP will have a coalition with their cousins the Tories.
wendy09
01-12-2014
Originally Posted by Styker:
“Re Chowdury. If what you say is true, then why do the Government(s) keep on banning his groups?

If he is in cahoots with the agencies then he is not doing a very good job tipping them off in who are the real nutters out there then is he?”

good question why is he being allowed to function when the government has so many terrorism laws to tie his hands.

the real nutters that are related to him are those being watched. i suspect beyond that the intel services have little idea .

from whats been reported there are about 9000 being watched of which around 2000 who are alleged 'muslim extremists' . i suppose the others are irish dissidents or extremist far right militants or the likes of animal rights etc
Lone Drinker
01-12-2014
Gordon Brown not standing in the next election. A poisonous,malign, divisive apology of a human being. A terrible Chancellor and a useless Prime Minister. Good riddance.
wendy09
01-12-2014
Originally Posted by Lone Drinker:
“Gordon Brown not standing in the next election. A poisonous,malign, divisive apology of a human being. A terrible Chancellor and a useless Prime Minister. Good riddance.”

not a lot of difference between cameron blair brown or any other neoconservative such as farage .
Styker
02-12-2014
Originally Posted by chinchin:
“Hear! Hear! Unfortunately idiotic people will vote UKIP and UKIP will have a coalition with their cousins the Tories. ”

I think come the General Election, most people "sweet" on UKIP will either vote for one of the main parties or probably are one of the many 40% who don't/won't vote.

If ever a referendum is given on EU membership, Farage will come under proper scrutiny or should and it won't be good enough for him to say and for Iain Dale to parrot like he did last week "That I'm sure German car makers will still sell their cars to us". Yes they will, no one is denying that but if tariffs go back on, that is bound to lead to price rises on both exported goods and imported ones as well as job losses as there are bound to be companies that will leave the UK if we vote to leave the EU.

The most popular parts of the press support the Tories and they give the Tories and UKIP an easy ride on the whole but will they all be able to carry on doing so if a referendum is given?

I personally think that Cameron will either go back on giving a referendum (AGAIN) or will have to delay it as I can't see him getting renegotiations complete in 2 years with 27 countries. Not that I really want a referendum anyway but for those that do, I think they are in for a dissapointment whatever happens.
Styker
02-12-2014
Originally Posted by Lone Drinker:
“Gordon Brown not standing in the next election. A poisonous,malign, divisive apology of a human being. A terrible Chancellor and a useless Prime Minister. Good riddance.”

Labour messed up on loads of things but the Tories have continued with the things Labour done wrong.

We as a country are still subsidising low pay with tax credits that cost tens of billions of pounds, probably at least 30 Billion a year between the child tax credits and working tax credits. If we made employers pay a living wage, then most of that would be saved and would lower the deficit accordingly.

We are now paying up to 25 Billion a year in Housing Benefits when anyone with half a brain would think, lets build council houses that people can afford to rent and that way, most of that 25 Billion will be saved too!

The Tories could have reversed these flawed policies but they aren't and with the Universal Credit due to be launched nationwide early next year, that sounds like they will continue to subsidise low pay and waste loads in Housing Benefits too when there is no need. Its because the Tories have continued with those policies and on housing they created the problem in the first place by selling council houses off and then stopped building them too - that the deficit is not coming down, its going up!

The Tories have failed on every major goal but with their buddies in the press not giving them a hard time about it, a lot of people don't realise this!
sandstone
02-12-2014
Neither side will build enough houses to make a dent in rent, they aren't going to risk putting thousands of voters in negative equity.
gurney-slade
02-12-2014
Much fun to be had on Twitter with this:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/look-tony-blair...as-card-101300
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