Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 

Michael Jackson's blanket of secrecy to be removed?


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30-06-2013, 18:00
Eurostar
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 41,826
For Michael Jackson. As to why he'd do it, I have no idea. He was as mad as a box of frogs! All I know is that those videos lack any spark of life or sense of fun. Why aren't the kids giggling, running around or doing any of the normal things kids do? I was willing one of them to give a funny answer or refuse to co-operate.
Looking at that video, he sounds a bit bossy and domineering but I wouldn't go much further than that : plenty of people have had a strict parent in their lives (I did expect him to sound a little softer and gentler when talking to them though).
Eurostar is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 30-06-2013, 18:03
gulliverfoyle
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,149
Well according to the Sunday People of all papers, Jackson molested some 24 other kids and paid them all off
i never understood how anyone would let their child sleep in the same bed with a 40+ year old stranger?

and let him have 3 children that he bought that might not even be his in his house?

just shows how celebrity gets you a free pass

bit like alec baldwin
gulliverfoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2013, 19:34
jackol
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,027
Well according to the Sunday People of all papers, Jackson molested some 24 other kids and paid them all off
Only the diehard fans refuse to believe these things
jackol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2013, 20:33
Hollie_Louise
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somewhere Only I Know
Posts: 13,577
Only the diehard fans refuse to believe these things
I am a very big fan on MJ's talents, I can't say he did do it and I can't say that he didn't do it but as I've said on another thread, I always find it hard to believe the word of people that would take a multi-million dollar settlement in exchange for dropping criminal charges against a man that sexually abused their child

Like I say, he could be an abuser, but I really don't trust the word of people like the Chandler's, certainly the parents, who accepted an alleged $23m dollars (including $5m for their laywer) and through that agreed to not file (or end) legal proceedings
Hollie_Louise is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2013, 20:43
artlesschaos
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 9,279
I am a very big fan on MJ's talents, I can't say he did do it and I can't say that he didn't do it but as I've said on another thread, I always find it hard to believe the word of people that would take a multi-million dollar settlement in exchange for dropping criminal charges against a man that sexually abused their child

Like I say, he could be an abuser, but I really don't trust the word of people like the Chandler's, certainly the parents, who accepted an alleged $23m dollars (including $5m for their laywer) and through that agreed to not file (or end) legal proceedings
It is very difficult to prove abuse - much less high profile cases have been thrown out. The US justice system also seems to favour the rich.

The one with the money is certainly the one with the advantage and I would have preferred to use my money to publicly defend these allegations than spend a penny trying to cover them up.

Why pay 24 families off?
artlesschaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2013, 20:50
Hollie_Louise
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somewhere Only I Know
Posts: 13,577
It is very difficult to prove abuse - much less high profile cases have been thrown out. The US justice system also seems to favour the rich.

The one with the money is certainly the one with the advantage and I would have preferred to use my money to publicly defend these allegations than spend a penny trying to cover them up.

Why pay 24 families off?
I don't know.. Like I said he could very well be a child abuser, I just don't understand how anyone could accept $18m when their child has been abused, certainly why Jordy Chandler's parents would accept $1.5m each when they suffered no harm and their lawyer had $5m given to him, to me, that case just doesn't add up
Hollie_Louise is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:01
Squatch
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 257
What about Gavin Arvizo though? Jackson's apologists always talk about extortion, but GA never tried to get money, or suggested it. He bravely tried to do things the correct way, despite not being given the basic right of anonymity, which must have been humiliating, and despite the bizarre behaviour of his mother. (His mother being strange would have made him an attractive victim for a paedophile, due to her poor judgement and lack of credibility)

A child abuse expert testified in that trial that adolescent boys falsely accusing men of sexual abuse is almost unheard of, due to the stigma of being thought of as gay.

Something to think about: here in the UK, 70-90% of rape victims don't report the attack, and of the 10-30% who do, only 6% see their attacker prosecuted. This means that only 0.6% to 1.8% of rapists are prosecuted. These statistics are for a different country (with a better legal system IMO) and for adults rather than children, but it demonstrates how hard it is to get justice for sexual abuse.
Squatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 09:26
lexi22
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,426
It is very difficult to prove abuse - much less high profile cases have been thrown out. The US justice system also seems to favour the rich.

The one with the money is certainly the one with the advantage and I would have preferred to use my money to publicly defend these allegations than spend a penny trying to cover them up.

Why pay 24 families off?
I don't know, I don't have much of an opinion (or interest) either way but what I don't really understand is why people approach this from a black and white (ie. right or wrong) logical point of view ie. what I would do in that situation. MJ wasn't a logical or rational man. He was very damaged and disturbed, and lived for the greater part of his adult life in a fantasy world of his own creation. What made sense to him is not necessarily going to make sense to anyone else and applying black & white logic to how he behaved is never going to throw any real light on his actions.

Was his behaviour very dubious at times? Absolutely. But you just can't examine his behaviour in isolation, it's got to be in the context of his own damaged mental state.
lexi22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 08:19
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
Day 41 of Jackson family vs AEG trial, extracted from ABC7 Court news tweets.

Today’s witness for the family is Jean Seawright, a Human Resource sconsultant, who has her own business. She has clients in various businesses such as pest control, law firms, restaurants, car dealerships, hospitals, etc. Her company helps clients find, hire, train, compensate, terminate workers. Seawright has Batchelor in Science in Chemistry, has consulted in the field of HR for 25 years, advising owners and managers of human resources practices.

Brian Panish for the family is questioning Jean Seawright.

Seawright has testified in approximately 16 cases. Being an expert witness composes about 10% of her company's revenue. She charges $300/hour and has worksed little over 100 hours in this case.
Seawright has never worked in the music or show producing industry, but said that she's qualified to testify since HR principles are the same. She said her goal is to hire workers who are fit for the position and who are not going to put themselves or others at risk.

Seawright said there are several types of background check, including driving, criminal, credit and social security check. Depending on the reports, the cost can be as low as $5, background check from $10-15, $25 with other fees, Seawright testified.

Panish asked, assuming Paul Gongaware knew Jackson had prescription drug issues, would that knowledge be critical in hiring a doctor for Jackson? "Yes indeed, it would elevate the risk even higher," Seawright answered. "I'd recommend criminal background check, credit and motor vehicle check and a social security verification on Dr. Murray," Seawright said. "Dr. Murray was in position of administering medical care but was paid by company that had the ability to stop the tour," Seawright said. "Had that happened, Dr. Murray would not be able to continue to work, he was in a conflict of interest," Seawright continued.

Much of Seawright’s testimony was that she saw no evidence of checks carried out by AEG on Dr. Murray. That looking at someone’s professional licence is not enough. Asked if she saw anything that qualified Dr. Murray as extremely successful, Seawright testified she saw nothing that was done to determine that.

Seawright said AEG should have done, at minimum, a credit check. Jackson was just a referral of Dr. Murray, Seawright said, and AEG should've done further investigations on him. Seawright said Dr. Murray was going to be in Jackson's house, would have exposure to confidential information, so he needed to be checked out. To get a credit report, you have to have the individual's consent, Seawright said.

The expert analysed an email from outside counsel Kathy Jorrie to Phillips recommending background check on Dr. Tohme. During deposition, AEG's attorney Jessica Bina showed study where out of 158 employers 3 % indicated they did credit check in healthcare. Another part of the survey related to employees working at people's homes, in which 30% employers conduct credit checks.

Panish: Could AEG have done a background check on Dr. Murray? Seawright: There's no question they could've done that, if they wanted to."Seawright said if AEG had run a background check that would have got the same information LAPD Detective Orlando Martinez received, that Dr. Murray had 3 different social security numbers in his credit report.

Panish sat down and Seawright was cross examined by AEG's attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina . Bina asked if all the opinions Seawright offered are based on the assumption that AEG, not Jackson, hired Dr. Murray. She said yes. Seawright said she did not analyse the information assuming Michael Jackson hired Dr. Murray. The Judge told the jurors that ultimately they are the ones who are going to decide who hired Dr. Murray.

Seawright Associates has four employees currently. Seawright said she has no idea if plaintiffs checked her background, but that she did not sign a release to check her credit. Seawright said she never checked her doctors' background. She has not worked with concert promoters or the music industry. The expert said this is the 1st case where a person's credit history is major issue. The other cases involved criminal history and behaviour. The expert said there's no precise definition for independent contractor; there may be characteristics, but not a definition.

It was reported some jurors had their eyes closed and some audience members were sleeping. A company can be accused of discrimination if the criteria involved in the hiring uses discriminatory practices, Seawright said. Bina for AEG showed the Jury an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) policy on credit check, saying it is a discriminatory practice. With the Jury not present there was a heated discussion in Brian Panish for the family argued the document should not be allowed and be struck from the record. The Judge wants get to the bottom of whether it is admissible or not, before instructing the jury one way or another.

With the jury back in the courtroom Jessica Stebbins Bina continued her cross examination of Jean Seawright, it was her understanding Dr. Murray had a medical licence. Seawright said once she did a credit check on Dr. Murray it made him ineligible for employment, thus she didn’t investigate further. Bina pointed out para 4.1 in Murray’s contract was an error, “ 4.1 Perform the Services reasonably by Producer" that Producer should read Artist. Seawright said she saw contradicting testimony, several well-qualified people reviewed the contract and it wasn't changed in final version.

With the court was adjourned for the day.

Seawright will continue to give evidence, an addiction specialist is also due to appear. Taj Jackson is expected back on Wednesday. There is no court on Thursday and Friday.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 08:32
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
So Jean Seawright based her opinion/evidence on the assumption Dr. Murray was employed by AEG, I thought that was the jury was there to decide. I guess it's good for business to suggest background checks be carried out but to testify a company should have done this or that check on a doctor but to admit not having checked the doctor she employs considerably weakens her opinions.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 16:44
denial_orstupid
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 494
Interrogation*(also called*questioningor*interpellation) is*interviewing*as commonly employed by officers of thepolice,*military, and*Intelligence agencieswith the goal of extracting a confession or obtaining information. Subjects of interrogation are often the suspects, victims, or witnesses of a crime. Interrogation may involve a diverse array of techniques, ranging from developing a rapport with the subject to outrighttorture.

And this is what you meant in your stupid comment. Michael was encouraging his kids, end of.
i stand by my first statement - he was not encouraging the children at all (they are not even his kids) he was interrogating them .
really doesn't look good for wacko jacko does it - the truth is finally coming out , but anyone not obsessed with him knew just what he was all along .
he is in the best and safest place right now , exactly where he belongs .
denial_orstupid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 08:10
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
A report on yesterday's proceedings (Day 42) by ABC7 Court News.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 08:18
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
Day 42 of Jackson v AEG Live

After a couple days absent Katherine Jackson was present in court.

Without the jury present the lawyers and judge discussed the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) document shown to jurors yesterday. An agreed statement was made to the Jury by Judge Yvette Palazuelos, the EEOC document was not law but a guide, questions could be asked about it but the document has not been admitted in evidence.

Jessica Stebbins Bina for AEG continued her cross examination of Jean Seawright a Human Resources consultant. Seawright said she was unaware of any studies showing a relationship between debt and manslaughter, she was also not aware of any studies showing a relationship between debt and malpractice. Asked if she knew of Dr. Murray had no history of harming patients, Seawright said she only examined his financial history only, he was 180 days behind with his mortgage.

Bina produced a survey of 158 Human Resources professionals who answered questions about credit checks. According to the 2010 survey 30% did credit checks on employees having fiduciary duties. For employees with ‘safety sensitive’ roles the percentage was 5% and for healthcare professionals, credit screening was 3%.

Seawright told the court the fact Jackson had a long term relationship with Dr. Murray had no bearing on her analysis, she would have to evaluate the circumstances before answering whether Jackson should have done a background check on Dr. Murray if after 3 years he was to continue being Jackson’s doctor. Seawright said, "When hiring someone, we have to look at the potential harm to him/herself, to others, to customers. For every job, you have to evaluate all of the risks associated with it." She considered Dr. Murray’s position to be high-risk and safety-sensitive.

Seawright said employers have the right to do background checks but pointed out their practices cannot be discriminatory. She said a company would not necessarily be exposing itself to risk by doing a background check. Bina for AEG argued if the company was taking responsibility for Dr. Murray’s conduct, with indemnification, it offers protection. Seawright said it protects the company, it protects AEG.

Brian Panish for the family began his re-direct questions, he said Bina had used the EEOC document improperly in front of the jury. The judge sustained an objection by AEG. In answer to why employers check the credit of potential employees Seawright said, they are very concerned that financial stress can compromise people’s ethical judgement and behaviour. Debt is not an issue, it’s the delinquent debt they are concerned about.

Seawright said she saw nothing that indicated AEG did not credit check Dr. Murray because it could be discrimination. Seawright said she would not rely on a survey conducted with a small percentage of business to determine if a credit check should be done. Seawright said, “I believe AEG Live hired Dr. Murray." The judge sustained an objection by AEG’s lawyers. The Judge explained to the jury, ”That's because it is your duty, your responsibility to say whether Dr Murray was hired. It's not up to the experts to determine that.”

If in 2009 AEG Live had been Seawright’s client she would have said absolutely no to hiring Dr. Murray. "If they insisted, I would've recommended a comprehensive vetting process, with credit and background check," Seawright said.

In Re-cross examination by Bina, Seawright admitted she was not aware legislators in 2009 expressed concern of unduly use of credit checks.

In Re-Re-Direct Brian Panish for the family asked if EEOC was checking credit of people, Seawright said it was her understanding they were. She repeated that financial distress can impact on the ability to make an ethical decision. She was of the opinion AEG acted inappropriately by not carrying out a credit check on Dr. Murray.

Seawright was excused.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 08:54
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
The second witness of Day 42 was Dr. Sidney Schnoll. He graduated in medical school in 1967. Schnoll is an addiction medicine and pain management specialist. Been practicing since the early 1970s, but has been consulting since 2001 or so, this is the first case in about 15 years that he's testified in. Schnoll has consulted for the NFL Players Association, the Chicago Cubs and Bulls. He's also provided medical care at concerts for acts such as the Rolling Stones and Fleetwood Mac, it appears for concertgoers, not talent.

Dr. Schnoll reviewed medical records, depositions and transcripts in this case. He was also deposed.

Michael Koskoff, attorney for the Jackson's, doing direct examination. Schnoll recalled first walking into the Chicago Cubs locker room and there was a bottle of amphetamines and a beertap in the clubhouse. He told the club both were inappropriate. He instituted a drug monitoring and testing program.

The doctor explained being dependent on a drug meant someone would experience withdrawal if they stopped taking the drug. Despondency is common and can occur under the care of a physician. Addiction is a chronic disease that’s characterized by craving, compulsive use of a drug, continued use despite evidence of harm. Genetics is usually the primary factor in whether someone becomes a drug addict.

Schonall told the court of the need to evaluate a person’s drug use to determine the appropriate treatment. Dr. Schnoll recounted a woman he treated who had severe headaches and kept asking for more and more medication. On keeping a pain diary it revealed the woman had the headaches Monday to Friday at 4pm. It was discovered she was not having lunch, her solution was 3 meals a day.

The court broke for the day.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 11:47
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
Day 43 of Jackson vs AEG Live trial, extracted from ABC7 Court News tweets.

Katherine and Trent Jackson were in court.

Addiction and pain management expert Dr. Sidney Schnoll resumed being questioned by Michael Koskoff attorney for the Jackson family. Dr. Schnoll said based on his review of medical records, he saw no evidence that Jackson was addicted to prescription medicines.


Dr. Schnoll told the court if someone is suddenly taken off Demorol it is like falling off a cliff. Dr. Schnoll explained the most important in deciding if a person should be taken off the drug is to find out what the underlying problem is. If a person has chronic osteoarthritis they may have to stay on medication all their life. Dr. Schnoll testified President John F. Kennedy had been opioid dependent due to back pain.

The doctor testified someone on long term opioid treatment will become dependent. Opioids are the most commonly prescribed drugs in the US. 10-12% of patients become addicted.

Schnoll reviewed medical records dating back until at least 1997, they included dental records, and files of Arnold Klein. The records showed that Jackson received propofol for dental procedures dating back to 1997, Schnoll said

Dr. Schnoll testified he found no evidence Jackson used Denerol a medical setting, there was evidence Jackson had used Demerol for scalp treatments. Dr. Schnoll said he reviewed medical records that Dr. Farshian implanted a patch into Jackson’s abdomen. The patch was done for treatment of Demerol dependency in early 2000s. The drug would block the effect of the opioid, Dr. Schnoll said.

Koskoff attorney for the family said based on the medical records in the last 16 years of Jackson’s life, he was Demerol free for 13 1/2 years. Dr. Schnoll said that was not consistent with being a drug addict. Dr. Schnoll’s disagreed with Dr. Earley’s testimony that Jackson was a drug addict and was going to die early. Dr. Schnoll said he saw no evidence that Jackson ever used recreational drugs or self-injected in the absence of a doctor, there was evidence Jackson was afraid of needles and didn't take medications in excess of what was prescribed by doctors.

According to Dr. Finkelstein Jackson was getting opioid drugs on the Dangerous Tour, Dr. Schnoll said hed hadn’t seen information that would allow him to make a diagnosis of addiction. Dr. Schnoll said Jackson was prescribed Midazolam and Versed for a sleep problem. Dr. Schnoll testified Debbie Rowe said during the Dangerous tour Jackson had received Propofol or Fentanyl, the doctor believed Rowe was not a licensed nurse. Between 1994 and 1996, Dr. Schnoll saw no evidence of any use of Propofol by Jackson under any circumstance. The drug was used for dental procedures and cosmetic treatment, Dr. Schnoll said, adding it was appropriate for that.

Dr. Murray used Propofol for sleep, which Dr. Schnoll said was inappropriate. "Plus, he was not an anesthetic or an anesthesiologist." Dr. Schnoll testified there no evidence Jackson was addicted
or dependent of Propofol up until Dr. Murray.

Dr. Schnoll said Dr. Klein was giving Jackson 100mg doses of Demerol in 2008, from mid-year to December it was the same amount. The Dose went up in January 2009. Dr Schnoll said if a person was previously dependent on Demerol, stops and then resumes, tolerance is built up. There was no evidence Jackson was getting Demerol from any other doctor. According to records the last Demerol injection Jackson received from Dr. Klein was on June 22, 100mg dose, there was no trace of the drug in his body at the time of his death. The drug would have had an effect on Jackson on June 25 2009.

Dr. Schnoll opinion was that Dr. Murray was not fit and competent to handle Jackson’s pain, his drug dependency issues or his sleep problems. The doctor described Dr. Murray as an interventionist cardiologist and that is a highly specialized field. He had no background in treating pain. Schnoll testified if Jackson’s underlying medical condition, pain, insomnia, had been appropriately treated by a competent doctor he may have been able to get off Demerol and benzodiazepines.

Asked to assume Jackson really was addicted to Demerol in 2009, Dr. Schnoll was of the opinion he could have been treated if he had the proper people. Having a supportive family and environment is critical in overcoming addiction, Dr. Schnoll explained. Dr. Schnoll: Some of the best outcomes in treatment are with people who have a lot to lose if they continue their addiction.

Assuming Jackson was not addicted, but had periods of drug dependency, Dr. Schnoll said it would not have an impact on Jackson’s life expectancy if appropriately treated. Dr. Schnoll agreed Jackson had the means to get proper drug dependency treatment.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 13:59
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
More extracts from ABC7's Court News tweets.

The cross examination of Dr. Sidney Schnoll by AEG was conducted Kathryn Cahan. Dr. Schnoll created the term ‘Rock Doc’ referring to doctors who work on rock ‘n’ roll concerts. He had been hired by promoters primarily to treat concert goers in the 1970’s. He did not think it created a conflict of interest as long as he acted ethically. Asked if he did background or credit checks on medical students who helped him out Dr. Schnoll said, "I knew most of them and I knew them well."

Dr. Schnoll is an employee of Pinney Associates, who is charging $790/hour for Dr. Schnoll's time.
Dr. Schnoll said he has no idea how many hours he has worked in this case. He was retained back in January.

Dr. Schnoll explained doctor shopping is going from doctor to doctor to receive medication. The fact Dr. Kein injected Jackson with Demerol didn’t raise concern of a relapse of Demerol dependency. Dr. Schnoll didn’t know if it’s common practice to use Demerol for Botox injections and facial fillers treatment. He said Demerol is not commonly used anymore because it has other effects than just opioids, considered a dirty drug. Dr. Schnoll testified the use of Demerol for pain was questioned in the 1990’s, a pain specialist would not keep Demerol handy. He last prescribed Demerol in the late 1970s, he stopped treating patients in 2001.

Dr. Schnoll said there was no evidence of addiction by Jackson in 2009. He did not offer an opinion whether the amount or type of drug MJ was taking for cosmetic and dental work was appropriate. Dr Schonell agreed when evaluating a patient he relied on the patient being honest with him, there has to be some amount of trust between doctor and patient.

Dr. Schnoll said people would recognize there was something wrong with Jackson, but may not be able to recognize it as withdrawal from opioids. Some of opioids withdrawal include chills, running nose, tearing of the eyes, dilated pupil, goose bumps. Dr. Schnoll said most doctors would be able to put all the symptoms together and conclude it is opioid withdrawal. The doctor agreed that some lay people could identify the symptoms as flu. Of the tens of thousands of patients Dr. Schnoll has treated 5-6 were addicted to Propofol, they were in the medical field. Dr. Schnoll said some of the patients might have been addicted to Propofol, but others were just abusing it.

After the break for lunch without the jury present, Judge Yvette Palazuelos warned the family’s attorney Brian Panish they were getting into mistrial territory over Jean Seawright testifying that AEG hired Dr. Murray. When the jury returned the Judge instructed them to ignore Seawright’s statement.

Katherine Jackson left the courtroom.

The cross exmanination of Dr. Schnoll was resumed by Kathryn Cahan for AEG. Dr, Schnoll was aware Jackson was seeing other doctors at the same time he saw Dr. Murray, like Dr. Klein. He was aware of Dr. Klein wrote prescriptions to Jackson under other names, Dr. Schnoll testified that was illegal. Asked if Jackson could have opiates in pill forms in 2009 from doctors while having Demerol injections from Dr. Klein, Schnoll responded he didn't like to work under possibilities, since everything under the sun is possible. I like working with probabilities.

In his deposition Schnoll had testified Jackson was dependent on Demerol, around the time of the ‘Dangerous Tour’. In court he was not sure Jackson was dependent on Demerol in 2009, having
looked at more records he is is now uncertain. He's also not absolutely sure, but says Jackson was probably dependent on Demerol in 1993. Dr. Schnoll said he doesn't think MJ was dependent on Demerol in January of 2009.

In April 2009, Jackson received 375 mg of Demerol, the highest amount given by Dr. Klein. Dr. Schnoll said that amount of Demerol would probably put Cahan to sleep for several hours. The expert said the appearance of withdrawal from Demerol usually shows within 24-36 hours. He doesn't think the symptoms Jackson was having on June 19, 2009 were related to Demerol withdrawal.

Dr. Schnoll said his job with patients who think they have their addiction under control and don't want to quit the drug, was to motivate them and help them see the problems with the dependency.
He didn't have 100% success rate in his practice and that no one does. Jackson could've been off the drugs or taking the drugs in appropriate dosages if properly treated. The doctor didn’t know if the failed family inter interventions done appropriately.

Dr. Schnoll had reviewed testimony that Jackson had boxes of Propofol at Neverland and asked a doctor to inject him. He said he saw a concern one time of Jackson going to Santa Ynez Cottage Hospital for excessive use of Demerol. Dr. Schnoll testified Jackson’s symptoms in June 2009 were not of Demerol withdrawal, but probably of Propofol.

In re-direct Koskoff for the family asked if Propofol was given for the drug or underlying condition. Dr. Schnoll said Jackson asked for Propofol to help him sleep. Cahan in re-cross asked what did nurse Cherilyn Lee said to MJ when he was looking for a doctor to give him Propofol? Dr. Schnoll said Lee responded that MJ was taking chances. Koskoff for the family pointed out Jackson replied it would be safe if done under the supervision of a doctor, Dr. Schnoll agreed Dr. Murray had given Propofol to Jackson.

Dr. Schnoll was excused.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 16:03
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416

Without the jury present Judge Yvette Palazuelos said Jean Seawright testifying that AEG hired Dr. Murray violated the motion in limine regarding this issue. Judge Palazuelos said that Experts are not to give their opinion on whether AEG hired Dr. Murray. Speaking to Brian Panish the family’s attorney the judge said this was crucial, the central issue in the case. Panish told the judge he had told Seawright not to do it. Judge Palazuelos said there was a ruling prohibiting any testimony, by any expert, on the issue, she continued her concern was they were 9 weeks into the trial and it was getting into mistrial territory.

The judge didn’t want this kind of problem that can lead to a mistrial, she asked Panish to speak with all his experts, every expert is only to make assumptions about hiring. The judge said she specifically made the ruling for a reason and told Panish to advise his experts about her order. Judge Palazuelos didn’t want a mistrial as it’s a waste of resources, Panish said she didn’t want a mistrial either. The judge warned Panish, “There are bright lines Mr. Panish and you don't even go near it because you may cross it accidentally.”

On the return of the Jury the Judge read them the following instruction: ‘Yesterday, plaintiiff's expert Jean Seawright said she believed they, AEG, hired Dr Murray. That violated a court order, the statement is stricken, shouldn't be considered.’

Court doesn’t resume till Monday, when Dr Finkelstein's deposition is due to be played, followed in the afternon Kenny Ortega testifying. Panish for the family estimates he’ll be presenting his case for another 2-3 weeks.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2013, 07:27
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
A summary of Day 44 from the Associated Press.

Yesterday in court, Dr. Finkelstein who was on 'The Dangerous' tour in 1993, told of Jackson's high tolerance to morphine and a patch that administered an opiate drug

A doctor who treated Michael Jackson during a 1993 concert tour that had to be canceled when the singer entered rehab testified Monday about the signs that led him to conclude the singer had a problem with prescription pain medications at the time.

Finkelstein.... recounted spending 24 hours in the singer's hotel suite and administering morphine intravenously to deal with Jackson's pain.

He said he gave Jackson morphine during their first meeting because the singer's buttocks were scarred from previous unspecified treatments and he was concerned about giving an injection of the painkiller Demerol.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2013, 07:35
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
The main witness called yesterday by the family was Kenny Ortega, Show Director of the 'This Is It' tour. Here's ABC7 Court News account of yesterday.

"He wanted to rock the world. He wanted them to know he was back." Those are the words of director Kenny Ortega speaking of Michael Jackson as they collaborated on Jackson's "This Is It" production.

Yet weeks into rehearsals, Ortega said, the star's condition changed.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2013, 13:09
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
Day 44 of Jackson vs AEG. Here are more details based on ABC7 Court News tweets.

Katherine Jackson was in court, accompanied by Rebbie Jackson.

The Jackson’s attorney played the video deposition of Dr. Stuart Finkelstein was on the 1993 Dangerous Tour and treated Jackson. Finkelestein is a specialist in internal and addiction medicine, having been a leader in treating addiction for over 20 years and he considers himself an expert.

Kevin Boyle for the family questioned Dr. Finkelstein on 1 Feb 2013. Dr. Finkelstein and Paul Gongaware used to go skiing together, Gongaware called him to go on a rock tour in 1993. The doctor would be paid by the promoter. Finkelstein said he was hired by Marcel Avram to be the physician for the crew not Jackson. But in Bangkok he was called by security regarding Jackson being in pain, the doctor was put on the phone with his treating physician in Los Angeles, Dr. Alan Metzger. Finkelstein was told Jackson had severe headache and was in a lot of pain. Dr. Finkelstein tried to inject Jackson but his bottom was so abscessed the needle almost bent, he instead administered morphine and IV fluids over the next 24 hours, Jackson was conscious & speaking.

Dr. Finkelstein said he administered medicine until Jackson could go on stage. The second show in Bangkok was postponed 24 hours. Finkelstein testified the publicist told him to go on CNN and say Jackson put so much effort in the show and was dehydrated. In the opinion of Finkelstein, Jackson had an opiate problem. Finkelstein described Jackson having a 100mg duragesic (Fentanyl) patch on and there were 2 ampules of Demerol given to him by make-up artist Karen Faye for Jackson.

It was early in Dr. Finkelstein’s addiction training, but he felt Jackson had received a lot of medication in the past, he had a high tolerance to medication, this was of concern to him. The patch, two ampules of Demerol from Karen Faye, observation that Jackson had a high tolerance and scarring on his buttocks led Finkelstein to believe Jackson was an opioid dependent. Jackson had multiple injections in his buttocks prior to being in Bangkok.

Dr. Finkelstein believed Jackson had a drug problem and tried to give a heads up to the promoters, but no one started believing him till Mexico City during the Dangerous Tour. He’d gone on the tour as a family doctor not an addiction specialist. Dr. Forecast an English doctor was brought in. One day Finkelstein testified he returned to find his suitcase and all his medication broken into by Dr. Forecast to get pain medication to give Jackson, Forecast wanted to detox Jackson in Switzerland.

Dr. Finkelstein didn’t know exactly who the head powers were but they called in Elizabeth Taylor to do an intervention and took Jackson to a Hospital in London. Jackson didn’t collapse it seemed to be getting harder and harder to manage his pain. There was also a video deposition in Mexico City related to the Chandler child molestation case that stressed Jackson to us more opioids, Finkelstein saw Dr. Forecast administer pain medication during the deposition.

Dr. Finkelstein had discussed Jackson’s opioid dependency with Paul Gongaware. Dr. Forecast was concerned that he’d be blamed for work done by previous doctors. Dr. Finkelstein said substance abuse either genetically pre-disposed, or people who get exposed to these chemicals their brain changes. He described Jackson as a sweetheart, kind, gentle and fun, he was kind to everyone.

Dr. Finkelstein explained he is known as a "Rock Doc," so he gets call from show producers and promoters to work at concerts. Two months before Jackson died Gongaware called Dr. Finkelstein about Jackson’s shows in London, Finkelstein was excited about it and wanted to be Jackson’s physician. He had 5-10 conversations with Gongaware, was told Jackson was clean and passed a physical examination for insurance.
Dr. Finkelstein would charge $40,000 per month, $10,000 per week. He remembers Dr. Murray asking for a lot of money to go on tour. Dr. Finkelstein testified there are not lot of cases of Propofol dependency, as it’s really hard to get. The mortality rate in Propofol dependents is really high, about 80%. Most of the dependents are in the medical field.

The doctor's brother, Bob Finkelstein, worked at Concerts West with Paul Gongaware. He knows Randy Phillips socially. Dr. Finkelstein said there were not a lot of discussions about the tour, since he didn't get the job. As a friend Gongaware had tried to get him the job but Jackson wanted someone else.

In cross examination by Kathryn Cahan, attorney for AEG, Dr. Finkelstein said several scars on Jackson’s buttocks led him to conclude Jackson was dependent on opioids. The Demerol was prescribed by Dr. Alan Metzger in the name of Karen Faye but it was not for her. Dr. Finkelstein said the usual starting dose of Morphine is 2-4 mg, but Jackson had high tolerance to opioids so gave 10 mg. He believed Jackson was in pain every time he administered Jackson morphine.

Dr. Finkelstein never administered Propofol to Michael Jackson. Finkelstein said his interaction with Jackson was very limited, Dr. Forecast was in charge of Jackson. When doctors such as Steve Hoefflin and Arnold Klein came to a concert the show would get delayed. Finkelstein said everything was secretive, it seemed like no one ever knew the whole story. "It was compartmentalized and people were separated and segregated," Dr. Finkelstein said.

Dr. Finkelstein was asked to treat Jackson in Mexico City when Dr. Forecast wasn't around. Jackson had back pain, Dr. Finkelstein gave him morphine, he had Narcan an antidote to opioids handy as a safety plan.

Dr. Klein would show up at concerts very frequently, Dr. Hoefflin came a couple of times, would spend the weekend, Dr. Finkelstein said. Finkelstein said he kept a journal of everything he did during the tour and he was backstage, his records were stolen. He said he left some records at his mom's house and purged Jackson’s record from 1995 since he wasn't a patient for 7 years.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2013, 13:18
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
So Karen Faye was not only carrying 'make-up' prescription drugs in her name for Jackson, she was being prescribed Demerol not for her but for Jackson.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2013, 17:58
coolmum123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 842
I have been reading this thread with great interest. Thanks for the daily updates, it's all fascinating. I have had one thought for quite a while now and that is whether this Dr Arnold Klein is going to testify? To me it seems like he knows a whole load of stuff re medication and MJ. Has he said anything?
coolmum123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2013, 22:33
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
Before Kenny Ortega took the stand on Day 44 the attorneys argued whether the family (plaintiff) can call him as a hostile witness, the judge ruled his AEG contract didn’t make him an adverse witness although there may be a time the Judge will allow adverse questions.

Kenneth Ortega was sworn and the direct examination was conducted by Brian Panish for the family. Ortega has reviewed his deposition, but not read testimony given at Dr. Murray’s trial. He’d read some articles about this trial and Karen Faye’s deposition was given to him to read by his lawyer.

Ortega said his agent and attorney negotiated his contract with AEG Live, at one point his rep said the negotiation turned from AEG Live to Michael Jackson. He doesn't know the details, though. For certain things, Ortega said he reported to Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips. Ortega described his role as Jackson’s creative partner for the ‘This is It’ shows’. Ortega said for the creative part, he reported to Michael and to AEG regarding budget or scheduling.

The director said he was called by Mick Jagger to work on the 50th anniversary tour, working with AEG. He believed Mick Jagger just made me an offer and we accepted it. Ortega's rep dealt with Paul Gongaware in The Rolling Stones tour. Ortega considered himself a friend of Gongaware, Randy Phillips and Jackson. Asked if he knew why he no longer is listed as a defendant Ortega responded, "I'm not an employee of AEG."

Ortega described his career and when he first made eye contact with Jackson backstage at his theatre company. It was a momentous moment for Ortega, it was like being touched by a star.
Ortega described the job of a choreographer and listed some of his work High School Musical 1, 2 and 3, Dirty Dancing, Newsies, Pretty in Pink, St. Elmo's Fire, etc. Artists he’d worked with included Cher, Madonna, Kiss, Diana Ross, Barbra Streisand & Bette Midler. Clips from various movies & music videos were shown of Ortega’s work.

Michael and the children went to see High School Musical in Las Vegas, Ortega recalled how Paris was singing and they were all standing & enjoying it.

Ortega first met Jackson in 1990, when Jackson called him to help mount the Dangerous Tour. Ortega felt incredible, as far as he was concerned Jackson was the greatest performer on the planet, the greatest song and dance man ever. Jackson and Ortega were co-directors of the Dangerous Tour.

‘This Is It’ was Michael’s vision which Ortega shared. Jackson wanted to put on the greatest show that anyone had ever seen. Jackson wanted to let the world know he was back. The opening of the show was significant to Jackson. He wanted the audience to think how will be able to top that! Ortega prepared the opening of the Dangerous Tour in 1992 where Michael appeared to fly, Jackson would then stand still on stage for a few minutes. "He would call that milking the crowd," Ortega explained. "He knew how to work the crowd better than anybody."

Jackson went to an orphanage in Romania before going to his hotel. Ortega said Jackson didn't want to do the show before the orphanage was cleaned up. Jackson wanted to make sure every child had what they needed, Ortega explained. Ortega said Jackson wanted to improve the human condition for children around the world.

To this day Ortega did not know Jackson was dependent on painkillers. In 1995, Ortega was acting as a consultant to Jackson for an event at Beacon Theater in NY. Jackson collapsed and the show was cancelled. Jackson was taken by ambulance to hospital, Ortega said it could have been exhaustion he didn’t know and couldn’t recall.


On the "HIStory" tour Ortega and MJ were co-creators & co-directors. They didn't always agree 100%, they allowed ourselves to have a creative joust, to play with the ideas and allow it to ripen. Ortega went on the first six or so dates on both "Dangerous" and "HIStory" tours, he explained it was the normal amount. In Munich during ‘Earth Song’ there a bridge Jackson was standing on a bridge that came down to fast when it landed. Ortega knew Jackson had hurt his back but he jumped up and went back on the stage. "The show must go on."

Ortega said he thinks Jackson had back problems afterwards but never saw Jackson take medication. Ortega did observe Jackson being loopy after seeing a doctor, no one ever told Ortega they thought Jackson was being assisted by something. Ortega didn’t know Jackson was taking medication for his scalp burn.


Ortega told the court ‘This Is It’ was going to be in London and there was hope for an international tour. If the show were to go on to other countries, then Ortega would receive royalties. Paul Gongaware and John Meglan were the ones who contacted Ortega about being part of the tour. The first email from Gongaware about the tour was on Feb 10, 2009. Ortega said Randy Phillips never told him what happened with Michael Jackson before the press conference. If he had known, it would have had an impact on whether to go forward with the tour.

On 12 Mar 2009 Gongaware emailed Ortega: ‘Blew out 30 shows today on the presale. Hot doesn't begin to describe it.’ Ortega responded: ‘I'd say we are off to a good start. Congrats to all.’ Gongaware responded: ‘We stopped at 50 sold out shows at the O2 arena. Demand was there for another 50. This is history and you're part of it.’ Ortega responded: ‘Yeah! Good for MJ, God knows he's been out through as much negative as any one person should have to go through. Great news, I couldn't be happier for the Team.’

The case was adjourned for the day.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2013, 22:56
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
I pity the jury, Day 44 ended with the attorney's discussing exhibits, Brian Panish said the defendants have 14,000 exhibits on their list, down from 28,000. There are 1,353 documents produced by Kenny Ortega.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2013, 23:17
i4u
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,416
I have been reading this thread with great interest. Thanks for the daily updates, it's all fascinating. I have had one thought for quite a while now and that is whether this Dr Arnold Klein is going to testify? To me it seems like he knows a whole load of stuff re medication and MJ. Has he said anything?
I don't know if Klein is listed to appear, I suspect he'd just say he only used Demerol during procedures. Having seen Klein give a long interview on TMZ when he was being investigated by the police, I doubt he'd admit any wrong doing.

As we've seen from yesterday's evidence Jackson may have been being treated by three different doctors at the same time, Dr. Allen Metzger, Dr. Arnold Klein and Dr. Steve Hoefflin. Who probably didn't know what the other was doing to Jackson.
i4u is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:26.