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Michael Jackson's blanket of secrecy to be removed?


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Old 30-04-2013, 22:30
i4u
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Yes he had a history with Demerol and was treated for a dependency to it in 1993.

Was Conrad Murray supplying it to him in 2009? No. Was any of it found in his bedroom after he died? No. Was Demerol in MJ's system when he died? No again.

The actual quote you're referring to starts with the phrase "Over the years.." which is correct because he's referring to past occasions. There is no evidence he was physically addicted to any substance around the time of his death.
There are more than one prescription drug someone can be addicted to....

Jackson's lawyer...

Panish said the singer's family and friends knew of his addiction to prescription drugs, especially Demerol, yet AEG professed ignorance when contracting him for a gruelling series of concerts.
The family are putting up an odd defence if you think addiction is not a consideration....

Panish told jurors they would be putting together a puzzle, with three pieces being Jackson, Murray and AEG Live.

He told the panel that Jackson suffered from addiction to prescription medications and Demerol at times during his life, and the problem increased when he was keeping up a rigorous schedule.
I guess rehearsing for 50 shows in a $30m large scale production isn't regarded as requiring a rigorous schedule.
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Old 30-04-2013, 22:55
i4u
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Have to say I agree with you although Paris has been pictured with Debbie recently.
Prince doesn't seem interested in meeting his mom at the moment, more interested in pimping up his new vehicle and being cautioned by the police.

Debbie Rowe is a bit of an odd one, apparently she signed a vow of silence when she and Michael divorced and had to seek his permission to talk to the media.

She did an interview (2003?) for F. Marc Shaefal defending Michael as a father, then not long afterwards she filed court papers over her rights as a mother and non payment of money by Michael Jackson.

F. Marc Shaefal & Michael Jackson end up in court suing each other, hints about trips to South America and bags full of money.

Debbie Rowe remains friends of F. Marc Shaefal.
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Old 30-04-2013, 23:02
i4u
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Lawyer for AEG has spoken....

Putnam, defending AEG from a potential $40bn payout for damages and forfeited earnings, said it could not have known Jackson was using propofol or the depth of his addiction to prescription drugs. "The truth is, Michael Jackson fooled everyone. He made sure that no one – nobody – knew his deepest, darkest secrets.

"We're going to show some ugly stuff," Marvin Putnam, a lawyer for AEG, part of the Anschutz Entertainment Group, an entertainment industry giant, warned jurors. To defend itself the company would be compelled to reveal Jackson's "deepest, darkest secret", he said.
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Old 30-04-2013, 23:15
i4u
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First witness, Richard Senneff a paramedic who responded to the 911 call for Michael Jackson in 2009.

Senneff repeated testimony he gave in the Murray trial, describing how he initially thought Jackson was perhaps a hospice patient. "He looked like someone who was at the end stage of a long disease process," he said. Jackson was not breathing and appeared to be dead when paramedics arrived, said Senneff.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:26
LIZALYNN
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I feel sorry for Michael Jackson's three children.
Does anyone in that squabbling grabby family care about their feelings apart from grandma?
They loved him very much and I am pretty sure they miss him as a peaceful loving father and not the family cash cow.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:49
tomclarky
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There are more than one prescription drug someone can be addicted to....

Jackson's lawyer...



The family are putting up an odd defence if you think addiction is not a consideration....



I guess rehearsing for 50 shows in a $30m large scale production isn't regarded as requiring a rigorous schedule.

Yes, "at times during his life" is the key part of the quote. If you actually looked at the evidence that arose at the Conrad Murray trial then you'd see that he died not from an addiction but an intravenous overdose of a non addictive sedative. Quoting lawyers does not count as evidence.

What drugs are you claiming he was addicted to at the time of his death?
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:23
shelleyj89
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Why does it matter whether he was biologically their father or not? Does it matter who Sandra Bullock's son's real parents are? Charlize Theron's son? Angelina and Brad's adopted children? No. So why does it matter here? I couldn't care less if they are biologically his or not. He is their father, he raised them, he cared for them, he loved them and they loved him.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:15
i4u
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Yes, "at times during his life" is the key part of the quote. If you actually looked at the evidence that arose at the Conrad Murray trial then you'd see that he died not from an addiction but an intravenous overdose of a non addictive sedative. Quoting lawyers does not count as evidence.

What drugs are you claiming he was addicted to at the time of his death?
You sound like someone in denial, it's like saying someone died of loss of blood and ignoring they were stabbed through the heart.

I believe it was stated Michael Jackson died of acute propofol and benzodiazepine intoxication.

Propofol is a drug with addictive properties even though it is not scheduled as a controlled substance. It is a dangerous medication that should never be used without professional supervision.
Unfortunately, the drug has an effect that causes it to be popular and addictive, and so it is becoming increasingly prevalent as an addictive and abused substance in the United States.
URL="http://www.anesthesiologynews.com/ViewArticle.aspx?d=Clinical%2BAnesthesiology&d_id=1&i=May%2B2007&i_id=284&a_id=7579&ses=ogst"]Paul Wischmeyer, MD, an anesthesiologist [/url]at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver. “People who have abused propofol say it’s pretty much their first-choice drug every time.”

One addict fell asleep at his desk so often that his lolling forehead became a perpetual bruise. Another was so desperate for a fix that he started trolling through sharps bins for discarded needles with traces of drug to inject.

The addicts were two doctors, an anesthesiologist and a family physician. Their drug of choice: propofol.
The mother and his children are clearly promoting he was an on going addict of whatever so they can ridicule any claim by AEG's they weren't aware.

AEG will probably argue Michael Jackson was an extremely decietful secretive person, as his manager didn't seem to know Murray stayed overnight, Michael's PA didn't know what was going on, staff were apparently barred from going upstairs, etc.

If people wish to believe Michael was not an addict and among other drugs Propofol is not addictive, then that's their choice.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:28
i4u
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Why does it matter whether he was biologically their father or not? Does it matter who Sandra Bullock's son's real parents are? Charlize Theron's son? Angelina and Brad's adopted children? No. So why does it matter here? I couldn't care less if they are biologically his or not. He is their father, he raised them, he cared for them, he loved them and they loved him.
There was a suggestion if the children weren't biologically Michael's they may not have been entitled to make a claim.

According to TMZ the lawyers for Katherine and the children had been making enquiries as to what Debbie Rowe may have said in statements re paternity.

I doubt she would have said anything negative, and according to TMZ because she and Michael were married at the time those two children legally are regarding as Michael's.

It's not known what Blanket's situation is as Michael lied on global TV about the circumstances of his conception, which Jeremy Kyle would regard as cruel.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:46
tomclarky
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You sound like someone in denial, it's like saying someone died of loss of blood and ignoring they were stabbed through the heart.

I believe it was stated Michael Jackson died of acute propofol and benzodiazepine intoxication.

The mother and his children are clearly promoting he was an on going addict of whatever so they can ridicule any claim by AEG's they weren't aware.

AEG will probably argue Michael Jackson was an extremely decietful secretive person, as his manager didn't seem to know Murray stayed overnight, Michael's PA didn't know what was going on, staff were apparently barred from going upstairs, etc.

If people wish to believe Michael was not an addict and among other drugs Propofol is not addictive, then that's their choice.
The 'addiction' you're referring to is nothing more than a psychological feeling of dependency or even just a pleasurable feeling of its effects, rather than physical addiction like with opiods. If he was physcially addicted to propofol then he would've been wanting injections of it throughout the day and wouldn't have been able to function on any level.

People who have abused the drug in the past are usually medical professionals who are doing so for the purpose relieving insomnia, not to simply get high. MJ was widely known to have extremely bad insomnia, especially after being on stage for long periods of time, so it makes logical sense that he hired a doctor for the purpose of getting him to sleep with anaesthetic whilst going through a very stressful time in his life, instead of him using it just to get his kicks. If MJ was a drug addict at the time of his death then he'd have been using safer and cheaper drugs such as the painkillers he'd used in the past.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:22
haphash
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I think you are in denial about MJs drug abuse but I'm sure it will all come out in the fullness of time. His family seemed to be aware that he had a problem and they are now trying to shift the blame onto the concert promoters which I think is a bit rich. MJ lived a life of secrecy and only a few close to him could have known the truth and even then he probably lied to his family as well. To expect the AEG to be blamed for this is in my view just ridiculous.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:29
tomclarky
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I think you are in denial about MJs drug abuse but I'm sure it will all come out in the fullness of time. His family seemed to be aware that he had a problem and they are now trying to shift the blame onto the concert promoters which I think is a bit rich. MJ lived a life of secrecy and only a few close to him could have known the truth and even then he probably lied to his family as well. To expect the AEG to be blamed for this is in my view just ridiculous.
I don't even think you're reading my posts. You think if you just ignore evidence and say the other person is in denial that you win the discussion.

You say that MJ hid his drug abuse, yet he wrote and released a song called Morphine, inspired by his painkiller addiction in 1993.

Have i ever blamed AEG for MJ's death? No.

Are you honestly saying that MJ was being administered a very expensive, very dangerous, hospital strength anaesthetic because he was a junkie who just wanted to get his kicks, instead of the more obvious scenario in which he desperately wanted something to cure his insomnia?
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:53
nomad2king
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I find it strange that on the one hand his family claim that he wasn't fit to do the concerts, but on the other claim for lost future income on the basis of him performing at concerts etc. They can't have it both ways.
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Old 01-05-2013, 13:14
haphash
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Are you honestly saying that MJ was being administered a very expensive, very dangerous, hospital strength anaesthetic because he was a junkie who just wanted to get his kicks, instead of the more obvious scenario in which he desperately wanted something to cure his insomnia?
Most people with insomnia don't take anaesthetic for it

Maybe he couldn't sleep, maybe it was all an excuse. I don't really care either way. For whatever reason he started with the drug, he obviously wanted to continue and thought he couldn't sleep without it. Murray should never have allowed that to happen but I guess if he had said 'no' then MJ would have found another doctor to supply him instead.
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Old 01-05-2013, 13:15
haphash
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I find it strange that on the one hand his family claim that he wasn't fit to do the concerts, but on the other claim for lost future income on the basis of him performing at concerts etc. They can't have it both ways.
I agree but they are a strange bunch all round !
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Old 01-05-2013, 19:29
Rose*~*
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I find it strange that on the one hand his family claim that he wasn't fit to do the concerts, but on the other claim for lost future income on the basis of him performing at concerts etc. They can't have it both ways.
This is exactly what I said today. They can't say that they knew about him being addicted to whatever tablets he was taking, and then in the same breath say you had no idea he was in such trouble and blame someone else.

Not only that, if MJ said he was fine, why would AEG think otherwise? And then again, do you honestly think he would've listened to AEG if they said they didn't feel he was?
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Old 01-05-2013, 20:42
tomclarky
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This is exactly what I said today. They can't say that they knew about him being addicted to whatever tablets he was taking, and then in the same breath say you had no idea he was in such trouble and blame someone else.

Not only that, if MJ said he was fine, why would AEG think otherwise? And then again, do you honestly think he would've listened to AEG if they said they didn't feel he was?
I don't blame AEG for MJ's death, but there's no question they knew he was unwell and physically incapable of doing the concerts, but still put pressure on him regardless. There's evidence to say they misled him about his earnings from the tour and the financial implications of possible cancellation. I think they used this to threaten him into continuing with rehearsals, which the Jacksons argue only served him to need more drugs.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:58
i4u
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The family having played up Michael's addictions 'over the years' now want to show it was obvious Conrad Murray was debt laden and untrustworthy...

LOS ANGELES — The doctor convicted of involuntarily killing Michael Jackson appeared to be on trial again Wednesday as a lawyer for Jackson's mother tried to show the physician's desperate financial situation drove him to extremes in his treatment of the superstar.

Attorney Brian Panish, questioning a police detective, hammered away at the depths of debt that enveloped Conrad Murray when he agreed to give Jackson what he wanted – infusions of the powerful anesthetic propofol to make him sleep.

(Orlando) Martinez, who was lead investigator on Jackson's death, said he discovered that Murray faced student loans, home loans, child support obligations and credit card payments that were in arrears in 2009. Panish said the debts totaled nearly $1 million.
The family seem to blank out that Murray had known Michael since 2006 before AEG was on the scene and Michael himself was debt laden and untrustworthy.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:04
i4u
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'Bizarre' if true....

After the jury left the courtroom Wednesday, Katherine Jackson’s lawyers said they believed they could locate Michael’s longtime nanny and confidante, Grace Rwaramba, and plan to call her as a witness as the trial proceeds.

“We couldn’t find her, no one could find her,” lawyer Kevin Boyle said of the last-minute addition. “But we think we’re going to be able to find her, hopefully.”
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:12
LIZALYNN
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I find it strange that on the one hand his family claim that he wasn't fit to do the concerts, but on the other claim for lost future income on the basis of him performing at concerts etc. They can't have it both ways.
Exactly.
That family only seem to care about continuing to make more money out of Michael any which way they can as if they don't have enough already.
It's the children I feel sorry for. Michael was sick, he was an addict, he passed away, end of.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:30
The Prumeister
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The 'addiction' you're referring to is nothing more than a psychological feeling of dependency or even just a pleasurable feeling of its effects, rather than physical addiction like with opiods. If he was physcially addicted to propofol then he would've been wanting injections of it throughout the day and wouldn't have been able to function on any level.

People who have abused the drug in the past are usually medical professionals who are doing so for the purpose relieving insomnia, not to simply get high. MJ was widely known to have extremely bad insomnia, especially after being on stage for long periods of time, so it makes logical sense that he hired a doctor for the purpose of getting him to sleep with anaesthetic whilst going through a very stressful time in his life, instead of him using it just to get his kicks. If MJ was a drug addict at the time of his death then he'd have been using safer and cheaper drugs such as the painkillers he'd used in the past.



With respect, that is addiction but on a different level to not being able to physically function. A psychological feeling of dependency is addiction, pure and simple.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:32
tomclarky
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With respect, that is addiction but on a different level to not being able to physically function. A psychological feeling of dependency is addiction, pure and simple.
Yes... it's psychological addiction. I was responding to someone who clearly thought MJ was a 'junkie'. They were implying that MJ was addicted to substances he was taking himself, as in 1993. The difference in 2009 is that the drug that killed him, he was receiving in one nightly intravenous dose rather than because he was popping pills to get his kicks.

I might have a psychological feeling of dependency for Weetabix, thinking that i can't function during the day without eating them in the morning, but that doesn't make me a cereal addict or even a junkie.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:58
i4u
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During the day Michael was visting doctors receiving 'proceedures'' unbeknown to Klein, Murray was 'treating' Michael at night, similarly Murray may have been in the dark about Klein.

After Michael's death Klein's office submitted an invoice for numerous 'proceedures' in a short space of time.

If Propofol was for a medical condition, why all the secrecy in how it was obtained?

Again, in 2003 if those drugs identified at Neverland were for legit medical reasons why were they obtained in various names, why so many sources, why so many doctors.

His 'rehab' in 1993 appears to have been cut short, must have been an excellent patient. In 2002 he was now doing 'rehab' via a correspondence course with a Florida based Center..

In the 'This Is It' letter (21 July 2002) from the Florida center they wrote to an addict..."I'm not sure if you received my package earlier, so I am sending it again."

The center not knowing what happened to the first package sent in the post an addict another delivery of the ...'potent narcotic'.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:34
tomclarky
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During the day Michael was visting doctors receiving 'proceedures'' unbeknown to Klein, Murray was 'treating' Michael at night, similarly Murray may have been in the dark about Klein.

After Michael's death Klein's office submitted an invoice for numerous 'proceedures' in a short space of time.
He visited Arnie Klein about an average of every 3 days from March 2009 to his death and had various cosmetic procedures in this time totalling to around $48,000. Even though he was receiving IM injections of painkillers on most of these visits, it's not possible that he would've become addicted to them because they were too infrequent. To become addicted he would've needed to be taking them every day and multiple times a day.

If Propofol was for a medical condition, why all the secrecy in how it was obtained?
Because there is absolutely no justifiction for using Propofol in a home setting. There is no medical condition that it should be used to treat outside of a hospital.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:22
i4u
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Addict Michael Jackson in denial?....

Michael Jackson's mother sat in court Thursday as a police detective testified that she told him the family had tried drug interventions for the singer, believing he was addicted to painkillers.

But Detective Orlando Martinez said Katherine Jackson told him her son refused any help, saying he didn't have a drug problem.
'Mrs. Jackson said the family tried to help him but he would have nothing to do with it,' Martinez said. 'She had asked Michael if he was taking any drugs, and he denied it.
Frank Dileo demanded a blood test...

Earlier, Martinez said that five days before Jackson died, his manager called the singer's doctor, told him Jackson was sick, and implored him to have blood tests done, according to a voicemail played in court.

The message left by Frank Dileo was retrieved by police from Murray's cellphone.

'I'm sure you're aware he had an episode last night,' the message said. 'He's sick. ... We gotta see what he's doing.'
Outside of court lawyer for the family acknowledged this was the day Kenny Ortega said Michael unfit to rehearse, a scene that does not feature in the 'This Is It' film.

So, both sides saying Michael was an addict, family saying AEG must have known, but AEG saying Michael concealed the truth?
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