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Old 20-04-2013, 22:45
george.millman
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It's a reference to someone saying 'That's so unfair!' She won't actually be in it.
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Old 21-04-2013, 04:44
thenetworkbabe
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Sugar likes all the business plans of the Final 16. The ones he doesn't like are binned upon application. He made this clear at the start of Series 8.
Except thats not what happens in the series. The test, if there is one, may be that the plan is more solid, and has more supporting evidence. Arguably the first series with the new prize saw 3 finalists without that.

By the time he gets to the last final though he has an internet site proposal that he identifies as unviable and pointless, a call centre proposal that would be too unpopular to be associated with, and has enormous start up cost issues, and a hedge fund idea thats politically deadly toxic. He thinks one has no market, one is not something he wants to he associated with, and he can't possibly in his position associate himself with a hedge fund - when hedge funds bear a major responsibility for the economic crisis.

He actually only has one possible winner last series - the guy who wants to build on his existing recruiting job and has a politically safe and economically proven proposition. The show obviously isn't going to portray it that way , and will portray it as an open competition - but when three proposals are dismissed. or deadly, there's no competition there. And you could have decided that on day one looking at the proposals.
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Old 21-04-2013, 10:27
george.millman
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Except thats not what happens in the series. The test, if there is one, may be that the plan is more solid, and has more supporting evidence. Arguably the first series with the new prize saw 3 finalists without that.

By the time he gets to the last final though he has an internet site proposal that he identifies as unviable and pointless, a call centre proposal that would be too unpopular to be associated with, and has enormous start up cost issues, and a hedge fund idea thats politically deadly toxic. He thinks one has no market, one is not something he wants to he associated with, and he can't possibly in his position associate himself with a hedge fund - when hedge funds bear a major responsibility for the economic crisis.

He actually only has one possible winner last series - the guy who wants to build on his existing recruiting job and has a politically safe and economically proven proposition. The show obviously isn't going to portray it that way , and will portray it as an open competition - but when three proposals are dismissed. or deadly, there's no competition there. And you could have decided that on day one looking at the proposals.
He must have had at least some enthusiasm for Jade's, Nick's and Tom's ideas, otherwise he wouldn't have had them on the show. Maybe he gave them a chance to convince him that their ideas were worthwhile. He did explicitly say at the start of Series 8 that any plans that he had no interest in were already out the door. I see Lord Sugar as a very frank and honest person, every former candidate who has been interviewed has said that about him (with the possible exception of Stella!) and I don't think he would have said that if it wasn't true.

He didn't say anything like that in Series 7, so the candidates for that may well have been chosen on another basis. What I imagine happened is that after he saw the final four business plans and saw that at least two of them weren't very good, he realised that he needed to vet the candidates more clearly based on their business plans, and that's what he did in Series 8. Jade's and Tom's ideas were a bit weak (I thought Nick should have won, his business plan was fantastic), but there weren't any as bad as in Series 7.
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Old 22-04-2013, 22:24
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Wednesday @ 9pm is the traditional slot, as Masterchef wraps up next week my guesses is that it'll start Wednesday 8th May

Here's looking forward to another bunch of dumb candidates.
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Old 22-04-2013, 23:37
thenetworkbabe
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He must have had at least some enthusiasm for Jade's, Nick's and Tom's ideas, otherwise he wouldn't have had them on the show. Maybe he gave them a chance to convince him that their ideas were worthwhile. He did explicitly say at the start of Series 8 that any plans that he had no interest in were already out the door. I see Lord Sugar as a very frank and honest person, every former candidate who has been interviewed has said that about him (with the possible exception of Stella!) and I don't think he would have said that if it wasn't true.

He didn't say anything like that in Series 7, so the candidates for that may well have been chosen on another basis. What I imagine happened is that after he saw the final four business plans and saw that at least two of them weren't very good, he realised that he needed to vet the candidates more clearly based on their business plans, and that's what he did in Series 8. Jade's and Tom's ideas were a bit weak (I thought Nick should have won, his business plan was fantastic), but there weren't any as bad as in Series 7.
But he didn't. He rejected Nick's as a proposal with no business purpose - its dismissed as pointless - on the principle, not the detail. .If thats his reaction in the last week , it would have been his reaction if he reviewed it in week minus 1. He rejected Jade's idea - because he couldn't be associated with cold calling. He could have done that just reading the title - its a business thats toxic in those terms, however you present it. . The interviewers may have identified a massive hole in her finances - but that was inherent in the project from the start too. He did seem to consider Tom's idea - but that didn't look at all serious - as he balked at the core idea of putting his reputation at risk by letting it be used to attract investors to what was essentially a betting project. And, politically, it was inconcievable that someone who had been advising government on economic policy, could be tied to something as unpopular and irresponsible as a hedge fund. That was totally inevitable - if he knew what a hedge fund was - and if he didn't, he can hardly had a very clear view on what the projects were at the start.

By the final, he has to suggest that he is considering a choice between more than one bid - but I just don't think he had more than one bid he could properly accept. The other projects he could safely have gone for (the shops, restaurants, online trading etc) were just not available by then - as he had binned them because he didn't like who was proposng them, or didn't like the proposals enough to keep them in. That doesn't matter though as all he needs is one, relatively sane, safe, politically and morally non toxic, proposal - and he had kept one of them in hand for the final.
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Old 23-04-2013, 00:01
george.millman
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But he didn't. He rejected Nick's as a proposal with no business purpose - its dismissed as pointless - on the principle, not the detail. .If thats his reaction in the last week , it would have been his reaction if he reviewed it in week minus 1. He rejected Jade's idea - because he couldn't be associated with cold calling. He could have done that just reading the title - its a business thats toxic in those terms, however you present it. . The interviewers may have identified a massive hole in her finances - but that was inherent in the project from the start too. He did seem to consider Tom's idea - but that didn't look at all serious - as he balked at the core idea of putting his reputation at risk by letting it be used to attract investors to what was essentially a betting project. And, politically, it was inconcievable that someone who had been advising government on economic policy, could be tied to something as unpopular and irresponsible as a hedge fund. That was totally inevitable - if he knew what a hedge fund was - and if he didn't, he can hardly had a very clear view on what the projects were at the start.

By the final, he has to suggest that he is considering a choice between more than one bid - but I just don't think he had more than one bid he could properly accept. The other projects he could safely have gone for (the shops, restaurants, online trading etc) were just not available by then - as he had binned them because he didn't like who was proposng them, or didn't like the proposals enough to keep them in. That doesn't matter though as all he needs is one, relatively sane, safe, politically and morally non toxic, proposal - and he had kept one of them in hand for the final.
In the first episode of Series 8, Lord Sugar said, and I quote:

"Now, I've had a look at some of your business ideas, and so here's the point. Business ideas that I am not interested in would have been thrown out a long time ago. You're here because I'm interested."

To me, there are no two ways about it - he has made it clear at this point that each and every one of them can make him interested in their idea if they sell it to him in the right way, which in all fairness is the point of the competition. Unless you're saying that Lord Sugar was lying shamelessly - which I sincerely doubt as he has always struck me as an extremely blunt and honest individual, and the vast majority of people who have been on the programme have reinforced this - then I really don't understand your argument. I know the Jade thing is a bit odd, but if he had had no interest in her business whatsoever, why would he have said that she and the others were there because he was interested?
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Old 23-04-2013, 03:03
thenetworkbabe
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In the first episode of Series 8, Lord Sugar said, and I quote:

"Now, I've had a look at some of your business ideas, and so here's the point. Business ideas that I am not interested in would have been thrown out a long time ago. You're here because I'm interested."

To me, there are no two ways about it - he has made it clear at this point that each and every one of them can make him interested in their idea if they sell it to him in the right way, which in all fairness is the point of the competition. Unless you're saying that Lord Sugar was lying shamelessly - which I sincerely doubt as he has always struck me as an extremely blunt and honest individual, and the vast majority of people who have been on the programme have reinforced this - then I really don't understand your argument. I know the Jade thing is a bit odd, but if he had had no interest in her business whatsoever, why would he have said that she and the others were there because he was interested?
Because the criticism of the first series with the new prize was that no one, including the winner, had a good proposal (he binned Tom's chair proposal as quickly as Jim's) It was frankly embarassing. So series two needs to establish that the business ideas, at least, look concrete, and possibly viable. That doesn't mean that they have to be ]viable, or attractive though. it basically means that they have to exist in some worked up form (unlike Helen or Jim's) for everyone who gets to the final to present. Once presented, they can then be rejected with appropriate nitpicking, new discoveries or because something else is better.

That doesn't happen because Lord Sugar can't conceal that he finds some ideas silly or untouchable. That suggests they were never in play. However, he can't have only one possible winner, so at least one idea has to be discussed in the final as if its a possibility - even if its not. He can't say anything at the start of the series but that anyone can win - because as you say that would otherwise mean its pointless them being there, and someone else could be going to win regardless. .He's going to say what he does, whether its reality or not. All you really need, though, is to have someone left in the final with a good proposal, who can win without losing you your money, or your good name, or your political status. You might want a spare winner till near the end, but one will do in the final . If they can make you money, so much the better, but, as he showed last series, making money is less important than not taking big risks. or being attacked for your choice.
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Old 23-04-2013, 10:04
george.millman
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Because the criticism of the first series with the new prize was that no one, including the winner, had a good proposal (he binned Tom's chair proposal as quickly as Jim's) It was frankly embarassing. So series two needs to establish that the business ideas, at least, look concrete, and possibly viable. That doesn't mean that they have to be ]viable, or attractive though. it basically means that they have to exist in some worked up form (unlike Helen or Jim's) for everyone who gets to the final to present. Once presented, they can then be rejected with appropriate nitpicking, new discoveries or because something else is better.

That doesn't happen because Lord Sugar can't conceal that he finds some ideas silly or untouchable. That suggests they were never in play. However, he can't have only one possible winner, so at least one idea has to be discussed in the final as if its a possibility - even if its not. He can't say anything at the start of the series but that anyone can win - because as you say that would otherwise mean its pointless them being there, and someone else could be going to win regardless. .He's going to say what he does, whether its reality or not. All you really need, though, is to have someone left in the final with a good proposal, who can win without losing you your money, or your good name, or your political status. You might want a spare winner till near the end, but one will do in the final . If they can make you money, so much the better, but, as he showed last series, making money is less important than not taking big risks. or being attacked for your choice.
So what you're ultimately saying is that Lord Sugar says that all of the business plans have potential in his mind, even if they actually don't? I suppose that's a possibility, but I don't think it's a very likely one. He is a person who is renowned for honesty; he genuinely does not strike me as someone who would give people false hope.
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Old 23-04-2013, 18:58
hownwbrowncow
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I think we will get confirmation on Thursday night if it's true it starts on the 8th. Also, I think the cansdidates will be revealed between Monday and Wednesday next week.
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Old 23-04-2013, 19:53
TXF0429
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I think we will get confirmation on Thursday night if it's true it starts on the 8th. Also, I think the cansdidates will be revealed between Monday and Wednesday next week.
If its any later I'd be surprised given how far in advance they've shown the trailers. Also throw in the fact that Masterchef finishes next week then I'm confident that the series will start on Wednesday 8th.
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Old 23-04-2013, 19:56
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Ooohh, 900th post 100 more to the big one!
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Old 23-04-2013, 22:33
thenetworkbabe
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So what you're ultimately saying is that Lord Sugar says that all of the business plans have potential in his mind, even if they actually don't? I suppose that's a possibility, but I don't think it's a very likely one. He is a person who is renowned for honesty; he genuinely does not strike me as someone who would give people false hope.
I think they have to look as if their plans have some substance. But I doubt if the people shortlisting the candidates are doing it on the merits of their plans - they are looking for diversity, drama, and a few differences amongst the stock types. They can't have people arriving at the final with no plan, but on the other hand they can't have a show if they can't cast for the show to work. I doubt if Lord Sugar would end up with those people if every contender had a plan that had a chance of winning - he has to pick from who gets put through to that stage. . I then ask the question, what on earth could Lord Sugar say other than that they all stand an equal chance on day one?

Its more complicated than that, though, because he does still manage to get to a final where he has basic problems last year with 3 out of 4 proposals - but he also sends people home with safe, more acceptable, viable, plans. People go because he doesn't want to work with them , or doesn't seem interested in what they have on offer, or perhaps because of geography. He could easily invest safely in restaurants, Scottish wedding shops or art galleries, but he rejects those for call centres, internet shopping sites and hedge funds - that he can't back anyway.

The good thing is that it looks a lot less in 2012 as if he's keeping the one proposal he wants in regardless of how badly they do. They managed to find potential winner(s) who looked fairly competent on task. But he may still be focusing on having someone to win, and not bothering with others. I just don't think some people have much chance from day one even if they do have stronger CVs, better show performances, or safer, more possibly winning plans. If he's not interested in what you do, or he's going to find you too annoying I htink you are doomed anyway.
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Old 23-04-2013, 23:29
george.millman
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I think they have to look as if their plans have some substance. But I doubt if the people shortlisting the candidates are doing it on the merits of their plans - they are looking for diversity, drama, and a few differences amongst the stock types. They can't have people arriving at the final with no plan, but on the other hand they can't have a show if they can't cast for the show to work. I doubt if Lord Sugar would end up with those people if every contender had a plan that had a chance of winning - he has to pick from who gets put through to that stage. . I then ask the question, what on earth could Lord Sugar say other than that they all stand an equal chance on day one?

Its more complicated than that, though, because he does still manage to get to a final where he has basic problems last year with 3 out of 4 proposals - but he also sends people home with safe, more acceptable, viable, plans. People go because he doesn't want to work with them , or doesn't seem interested in what they have on offer, or perhaps because of geography. He could easily invest safely in restaurants, Scottish wedding shops or art galleries, but he rejects those for call centres, internet shopping sites and hedge funds - that he can't back anyway.

The good thing is that it looks a lot less in 2012 as if he's keeping the one proposal he wants in regardless of how badly they do. They managed to find potential winner(s) who looked fairly competent on task. But he may still be focusing on having someone to win, and not bothering with others. I just don't think some people have much chance from day one even if they do have stronger CVs, better show performances, or safer, more possibly winning plans. If he's not interested in what you do, or he's going to find you too annoying I htink you are doomed anyway.
I think (and I may be wrong) that initially the production team choose candidates on the basis of who will make good TV - Sugar doesn't care about that, but the production team do. After it's narrowed down a bit on an entertainment basis, Sugar comes in to look at their CVs and business plans and knocks off those few that have plans he absolutely couldn't use. In Series 8 anyway. With Series 7, their plans were quite clearly all over the shop.

I didn't understand the criticism of Nick's plan actually, I thought his was incredible.
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Old 23-04-2013, 23:52
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The good thing is that it looks a lot less in 2012 as if he's keeping the one proposal he wants in regardless of how badly they do. They managed to find potential winner(s) who looked fairly competent on task.
Well, nothing against Ricky, but he did manage to avoid getting fired even with 2 PM losses (which Tom, albeit his many mistakes didn't have). Though I do think he came closest to getting fired in week 3, when he basically was safed by the non-entity that was Michael (as the main failure was on the production side).
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Old 23-04-2013, 23:56
george.millman
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Well, nothing against Ricky, but he did manage to avoid getting fired even with 2 PM losses (which Tom, albeit his many mistakes didn't have). Though I do think he came closest to getting fired in week 3, when he basically was safed by the non-entity that was Michael (as the main failure was on the production side).
With the exceptions of Tim and Lee, all of the winners came very close to getting fired at some point. Michelle was saved by Samuel, Simon by Naomi, Yasmina by Paula, Arjun by Emma (though Zoe could also have justifiably been fired over him), Stella by Laura, Tom by Leon (and probably a few others on different weeks), Zara by Hayley and Ashleigh by David. There is an element of luck to it.
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Old 24-04-2013, 10:42
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BIG NEWS

Lord Sugar has confirmed that Season 9 of The Apprentice will start on Tuesday 7th May with Episode 2 commencing on Wednesday 8th May with subsequent episodes taking place every Wednesday!

Source:

https://twitter.com/Lord_Sugar/statu...93119876874240

YES! Cannot wait!!!
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Old 24-04-2013, 11:27
george.millman
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BIG NEWS

Lord Sugar has confirmed that Season 9 of The Apprentice will start on Tuesday 7th May with Episode 2 commencing on Wednesday 8th May with subsequent episodes taking place every Wednesday!

Source:

https://twitter.com/Lord_Sugar/statu...93119876874240

YES! Cannot wait!!!
Ha! Momentarily I misread the top of this and thought it said 'Bad news', and I was like, 'What?' Then I reread it and laughed.

As I've said before, I will be abroad when it's on and won't be able to watch it, so I'll be avoiding the forums so I don't get spoiled, in case anyone wonders where I am. I'll be back in early June.
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Old 24-04-2013, 13:27
hownwbrowncow
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Such great news!!

IMO every series should start with a double whammy in the first week!!

I think we could see the candidates as early as Saturday now, and no later than next Tuesday.
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Old 24-04-2013, 13:55
george.millman
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Such great news!!

IMO every series should start with a double whammy in the first week!!

I think we could see the candidates as early as Saturday now, and no later than next Tuesday.
Series 7 started with a double whammy as well.

I have a sort of system for the candidates... I don't like to watch their audition videos in advance, or even look at their photos... but when someone posts their names up here, I go on the link, squint my eyes so I can't read it, and get my iMac to read their first names to me. It sounds a bit odd, but for Young Apprentice, it was quite fun to hear a disembodied male American voice going... 'Andrew... David... Max...' etc. It's quite a laugh really!
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Old 24-04-2013, 14:51
boab34
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BIG NEWS

Lord Sugar has confirmed that Season 9 of The Apprentice will start on Tuesday 7th May with Episode 2 commencing on Wednesday 8th May with subsequent episodes taking place every Wednesday!

Source:

https://twitter.com/Lord_Sugar/statu...93119876874240

YES! Cannot wait!!!
looks like none of us got the start date right
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Old 24-04-2013, 18:01
hownwbrowncow
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@boab: True dat!
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Old 25-04-2013, 11:13
hownwbrowncow
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First ep is called 'Container'.
http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/wj...---1-container
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Old 25-04-2013, 11:15
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Excellent. How far in advance do they reveal the candidates? Is it about a week before air?
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Old 25-04-2013, 12:10
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My guess is that some of the products are ales as several people tweeted back in September about the teams selling ales and from the unclear pictures we got, it still seemed to be boys v girls.
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Old 25-04-2013, 13:12
hownwbrowncow
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Excellent. How far in advance do they reveal the candidates? Is it about a week before air?
They are revealing them next week according to the Apprentice twitter page. Monday's my guess!
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