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EE commit to using VoLTE (Voice over LTE)


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Old 19-04-2013, 22:32
Everything Goes
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Looks like EE are going to be offering VoLTE (Voice over LTE) at some point in the future. Haven't heard any of the other networks discuss this but it sure to crop up at some point. Im not sure if any handset support VoLTE as yet.


EE is also making further investments and improvements to its core network to enable a wide range of new services for EE customers. These services will include voice over Wi-Fi (VoWi-Fi), as well as enabling the delivery of both video and voice calls over 4G/LTE (VoLTE).
http://explore.ee.co.uk/our-company/...ile-innovation
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Old 20-04-2013, 00:28
The Lord Lucan
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Three & EE will offer it by early next year so i am hearing. Dunno what the other guys are doing.
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Old 20-04-2013, 07:50
enapace
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"EE is doubling the amount of 1800MHz spectrum bandwidth dedicated to 4G, from 10MHz to 20MHz"

So it seems Three has more than enough 1800MHz to provide a reliable network as they will have 30MHZ by 2015.
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Old 20-04-2013, 08:46
japaul
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"EE is doubling the amount of 1800MHz spectrum bandwidth dedicated to 4G, from 10MHz to 20MHz"

So it seems Three has more than enough 1800MHz to provide a reliable network as they will have 30MHZ by 2015.
The 20MHz for EE is 2 x 20 i.e. 20 for the uplink and 20 for the downlink. The 30MHz you mention for 3 really means 2 x 15 i.e 15 for the uplink and 15 for the downlink.

In future they'll be able to aggregate spectrum from different bands but for the time being only EE and Vodafone will be able to do the very fast speeds that using 20MHz can give. O2 and 3 don't have the spectrum to do it although it probably doesn't matter right now.
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Old 20-04-2013, 08:49
Thine Wonk
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The 20MHz for EE is 2 x 20 i.e. 20 for the uplink and 20 for the downlink. The 30MHz you mention for 3 really means 2 x 15 i.e 15 for the uplink and 15 for the downlink.

In future they'll be able to aggregate spectrum from different bands but for the time being only EE and Vodafone will be able to do the very fast speeds that using 20MHz can give. O2 and 3 don't have the spectrum to do it although it probably doesn't matter right now.
Are you sure it's not 20 and 10 as the upload is a lot slower and doesn't need as much bandwidth, in which case 3 and O2 could offer exactly the same download speeds?
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Old 20-04-2013, 09:37
japaul
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Are you sure it's not 20 and 10 as the upload is a lot slower and doesn't need as much bandwidth, in which case 3 and O2 could offer exactly the same download speeds?
EE could have a slower upload speed than what it could theoretically achieve but if you are asking does this release spectrum for the downlink then the answer is no. This is FDD paired spectrum.

Come 2015 when 3 get the full whack of 1800MHz from EE they will have available 1816.7 - 1831.7 for downlink and 1721.7 - 1736.7 for the uplink. The uplink and downlink are in separate defined groups so you can't reallocate between them. Also, 3 will probably have to wait until 2015 for the extra 2 x 5 so until then (from October this year) they have 2 x 10 available which means a maximum of 10MHz for the downlink for the time being. Likewise for O2. Vodafone can use 20MHz in their 2600 FDD spectrum if they choose to.

The unpaired TDD spectrum (which Vodafone also bought along with BT) does uplink and downlink over the same range of spectrum so you could mix and match up and down a bit with this spectrum.
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Old 20-04-2013, 09:41
enapace
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The 20MHz for EE is 2 x 20 i.e. 20 for the uplink and 20 for the downlink. The 30MHz you mention for 3 really means 2 x 15 i.e 15 for the uplink and 15 for the downlink.

In future they'll be able to aggregate spectrum from different bands but for the time being only EE and Vodafone will be able to do the very fast speeds that using 20MHz can give. O2 and 3 don't have the spectrum to do it although it probably doesn't matter right now.
Hmm so Three are just short 10 MHZ when they get there total amount of spectrum needed where as O2 are a lot a short. Perhaps EE might be willing to trade a further 10MHZ of 1800MHZ for the 10MHZ of 800MZ Three brought at the auction as EE only have 10 as well it would benefit them both EE would have 20MHZ of 800MHZ and Three would get 40MHZ of 1800MHZ for more reliable speeds. Aren't Vodafone in a worst situation though as they only have 40MHZ in 2600MHZ which is best for cities but not for range. As 1800MHZ is the best spectrum for range and speed.

So a Network Needs 40MHZ in a particular spectrum band to run LTE-Advanced when it is possible to do that is that what is being said or am I reading wrong?
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Old 20-04-2013, 10:34
japaul
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Hmm so Three are just short 10 MHZ when they get there total amount of spectrum needed where as O2 are a lot a short. Perhaps EE might be willing to trade a further 10MHZ of 1800MHZ for the 10MHZ of 800MZ Three brought at the auction as EE only have 10 as well it would benefit them both EE would have 20MHZ of 800MHZ and Three would get 40MHZ of 1800MHZ for more reliable speeds. Aren't Vodafone in a worst situation though as they only have 40MHZ in 2600MHZ which is best for cities but not for range. As 1800MHZ is the best spectrum for range and speed.

So a Network Needs 40MHZ in a particular spectrum band to run LTE-Advanced when it is possible to do that is that what is being said or am I reading wrong?
3 are not going to give up their 800 spectrum for the same amount of 1800 unless it involves a significant amount of cash or drugs. It would probably run into competition problems too as 3 would no longer be a credible operator by Ofcom's 4G auction definition.

1800 isn't best for speed and range. If you have the same amount of spectrum then 800 is best as speed is the same and potential range is better if you want to use it. The big advantage 1800 gives EE is that they have loads of it which allows them to do things that require a lot of spectrum.

I think you've perhaps misunderstood LTE-Advanced a bit. It just refers to a number developments which improve LTE and can be run in any amount of spectrum. But the more spectrum you have the better it can perform and it allows you to go beyond 20 MHz hence the super fast top speeds quoted. However 20MHz in an original LTE network is still potentially faster than 10MHz in a LTE-Advanced network. In fact LTE-Advanced helps networks with smaller spectrum holdings by allowing them to aggregate spectrum from different bands where as the current standard requires all the spectrum to be in the same band.
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Old 20-04-2013, 10:41
drivel
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Hmm so Three are just short 10 MHZ when they get there total amount of spectrum needed where as O2 are a lot a short. Perhaps EE might be willing to trade a further 10MHZ of 1800MHZ for the 10MHZ of 800MZ Three brought at the auction as EE only have 10 as well it would benefit them both EE would have 20MHZ of 800MHZ and Three would get 40MHZ of 1800MHZ for more reliable speeds. Aren't Vodafone in a worst situation though as they only have 40MHZ in 2600MHZ which is best for cities but not for range. As 1800MHZ is the best spectrum for range and speed.

So a Network Needs 40MHZ in a particular spectrum band to run LTE-Advanced when it is possible to do that is that what is being said or am I reading wrong?
10MHz of 800MHz for 10MHz of 1800MHz?

That makes no sense, at all.
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Old 20-04-2013, 10:51
DevonBloke
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Yeah, LTE-A is not defined by the amount of spectrum, rather LTE becomes LTE-A when a certain number of conditions/services are activated such as the afrementioned aggregation. Also doesn't LTE have to have a maximun speed of 1Gbps stationary (including overheads) before it can be called LTE-A, or true 4G?

The constant refferal to Three's 30Mhz on here has been confusing me too. Now I see that people have been getting the wrong end of the stick. Or just quoting 30Mhz rather than 2x15Mhz.

Does anyone know how much extra 2G spectrum EE could release for LTE without overloading 2G? Not much more at the moment I wouldn't have thought. Do they have enough for 2x40? I can't remember what thier full 1800Mhz allocation is.
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Old 20-04-2013, 10:53
enapace
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3 are not going to give up their 800 spectrum for the same amount of 1800 unless it involves a significant amount of cash or drugs. It would probably run into competition problems too as 3 would no longer be a credible operator by Ofcom's 4G auction definition.

1800 isn't best for speed and range. If you have the same amount of spectrum then 800 is best as speed is the same and potential range is better if you want to use it. The big advantage 1800 gives EE is that they have loads of it which allows them to do things that require a lot of spectrum.

I think you've perhaps misunderstood LTE-Advanced a bit. It just refers to a number developments which improve LTE and can be run in any amount of spectrum. But the more spectrum you have the better it can perform and it allows you to go beyond 20 MHz hence the super fast top speeds quoted. However 20MHz in an original LTE network is still potentially faster than 10MHz in a LTE-Advanced network. In fact LTE-Advanced helps networks with smaller spectrum holdings by allowing them to aggregate spectrum from different bands where as the current standard requires all the spectrum to be in the same band.
So you saying then that O2 will never be able to have a potentially fast network as they have the least amount of 4G spectrum of anyone and in theory Three would be able to use 40MHz for LTE-Advanced eventually as they will have 30MHz of 1800MHz and 10MHz of 800Mhz I didn't realise 800MHz was capable of the same speeds I thought that was why 2600MHz was best for cities because it could hold speeds and congestion better.
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Old 20-04-2013, 11:26
DevonBloke
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Three will have 2x15Mhz of 1800 and 2x10Mhz of 800. Thatís 15Mhz for the 1800 downlink and 10Mhz for the 800 downlink.
So the total aggregated downlink would be 25Mhz not 40Mhz.
Same for the uplink.
EE now have 20Mhz on 1800 so adding the 10Mhz on 800 would give them 30Mhz aggregated. If they could release another 10Mhz from 2G then they would then be able to do 2x40Mhz aggregated.
Not going to happen for a long time though as while intra-band (different blocks on the same frequency) is relatively easy, Inter-band aggregation (two different frequencies) is highly complex and I would imagine that current smartphone batteries would die within a few hours if the handset was trancieving on 2 separate frequencies simultaneously.
Good article here http://www.sersc.org/journals/IJAST/vol41/2.pdf
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Old 20-04-2013, 11:35
enapace
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Three will have 2x15Mhz of 1800 and 2x10Mhz of 800. Thatís 15Mhz for the 1800 downlink and 10Mhz for the 800 downlink.
So the total aggregated downlink would be 25Mhz not 40Mhz.
Same for the uplink.
EE now have 20Mhz on 1800 so adding the 10Mhz on 800 would give them 30Mhz aggregated. If they could release another 10Mhz from 2G then they would then be able to do 2x40Mhz aggregated.
Not going to happen for a long time though as while intra-band (different blocks on the same frequency) is relatively easy, Inter-band aggregation (two different frequencies) is highly complex and I would imagine that current smartphone batteries would die within a few hours if the handset was trancieving on 2 separate frequencies simultaneously.
Good article here http://www.sersc.org/journals/IJAST/vol41/2.pdf
Plus a the massive amount of 2600MHz that EE has. So Three will have a same amount of download that O2 has currently come September but worse than Vodafone or EE as they will have 20MHz download. Like Three will receive the other 10MHz spectrum in 2 more years boosting them to 15MHz download. Basically between O2 and Three it comes down to is the 800MHz that much better and the deployment and roll out out of there 4G networks. Vodafone and EE will be able to boost better/reliable speeds than either O2 and Three because they can offer higher amounts of spectrum for there download. Is it likely than that that 5 MHz download that Three have will be kept switched off in major areas and only used in rural areas to try and increase coverage in those areas?.
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Old 20-04-2013, 11:53
DevonBloke
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ooops, my bad. Got it wrong. EE of course only have 2x5Mhz of 800. Not 2x10.
So EE could currently (if it was possible) also have 25Mhz aggregated. 60Mhz if you added the 2600. That would be some serious download bandwidth but would need some advances in technology AND a seriously souped up handset to cope with it.
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Old 20-04-2013, 12:05
enapace
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ooops, my bad. Got it wrong. EE of course only have 2x5Mhz of 800. Not 2x10.
So EE could currently (if it was possible) also have 25Mhz aggregated. 60Mhz if you added the 2600. That would be some serious download bandwidth but would need some advances in technology AND a seriously souped up handset to cope with it.
Yeah doubt that going be likely to be seen happening for at least 3-5 years from now but they have it as a good backlog if it becomes needed. Vodafone most they could have is 30MHz aggregated [10MHz from 800 and 20MHz from 2600MHz]. Three would be next with 20MHz [15MHz from 1800MHz [will have full spectrum by time this starts happening] and 5MHz from there 800MHz]. O2 seems like it would be worse off as unless they can get some spectrum from somewhere else they will have less spectrum speeds come 2015 as then Three will get the last bit of 10MHz paired then.
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Old 20-04-2013, 12:10
DevonBloke
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VF & O2 may be allowed to use some 900Mhz in the future.
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Old 20-04-2013, 12:14
enapace
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VF & O2 may be allowed to use some 900Mhz in the future.
You mean similar to how Three and Vodafone might be allowed to use 2100MHz for 4G come end of summer if ofcom allows it.
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Old 20-04-2013, 12:30
DevonBloke
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Yes but I don't think they actually have enough 900 going spare to be honest since some of it is already being used for 3G.
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Old 20-04-2013, 12:41
enapace
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Yes but I don't think they actually have enough 900 going spare to be honest since some of it is already being used for 3G.
Couldn't the same be said for Three 2100MHz unless they are going to slowly take bit's at a time to use for 4G. Until everyone has a 4G phone as that would work as they won't be charging for 4G unlike the rest of the networks. But I can't see them making a lot of use for a couple of years. Plus the fact there is only one phone sold in europe which works on 2100MHz and off the top of my head I can't think of one that works on 900MHz.
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Old 20-04-2013, 13:28
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Does anyone know how much extra 2G spectrum EE could release for LTE without overloading 2G? Not much more at the moment I wouldn't have thought. Do they have enough for 2x40? I can't remember what thier full 1800Mhz allocation is.
This powerpoint presentation shows the current spectrum allocations.

The relevant bit about 1800Mhz is on page 5, but they appear to have got the legend wrong - I think we can safely assume its EE that has the 45Mhz allocation and o2 the 5.8Mhz!!

What's 1900Mhz all about? Never heard of that in a UK context before.

http://www.analysysmason.com/PageFil...ts_Mar2013.pdf
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Old 20-04-2013, 13:35
enapace
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This powerpoint presentation shows the current spectrum allocations.

The relevant bit about 1800Mhz is on page 5, but they appear to have got the legend wrong - I think we can safely assume its EE that has the 45Mhz aloocation and o2 the 5.8Mhz!!

What's 1900Mhz all about? Never heard of that in a UK context before.

http://www.analysysmason.com/PageFil...ts_Mar2013.pdf
Thanks for that it is quite useful.

Also they mixed up Vodafone and Three.
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Old 20-04-2013, 13:42
daveyfs
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Also they mixed up Vodafone and Three.
Ah yes, I thought there was something else that didn't seem quite right!
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Old 20-04-2013, 16:11
japaul
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What's 1900Mhz all about? Never heard of that in a UK context before.
It's not usually referred to as 1900 but it's unpaired TDD spectrum that came with 4 out of 5 of the licences (Vodafone don't have any) at the 3G auction in 2000. It actually sits next to the "2100" uplink spectrum used for 3G which is actually closer to 1900 than 2100 (the downlink part is around 2100MHz). TDD for 3G never found much support so the spectrum has remained pretty much unused. Totally different for LTE where it has found a lot of support and there are already devices supporting it.
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Old 20-04-2013, 16:27
japaul
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Does anyone know how much extra 2G spectrum EE could release for LTE without overloading 2G? Not much more at the moment I wouldn't have thought. Do they have enough for 2x40? I can't remember what thier full 1800Mhz allocation is.
After giving up the first lot to 3 they'll still have 2x50 in total and in 2015, they'll still have 2x45 which is loads. Taking away the 2x20 already used for LTE, I think they still have more than they really need for 2G. So they could use a bit more for LTE. Well no, not necessarily as they would have a political problem. In getting approval from the European Commission to merge one of the reasons for giving up spectrum in stages was that to do any more or any faster would impair any LTE network and there would be severe capacity problems for them and their MVNOs. If they suddenly find more for LTE then they'll look like fibbers...

Anyway they now have plenty at 2600 to do some future CA if they want to.
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Old 20-04-2013, 16:56
enapace
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After giving up the first lot to 3 they'll still have 2x50 in total and in 2015, they'll still have 2x45 which is loads. Taking away the 2x20 already used for LTE, I think they still have more than they really need for 2G. So they could use a bit more for LTE. Well no, not necessarily as they would have a political problem. In getting approval from the European Commission to merge one of the reasons for giving up spectrum in stages was that to do any more or any faster would impair any LTE network and there would be severe capacity problems for them and their MVNOs. If they suddenly find more for LTE then they'll look like fibbers...

Anyway they now have plenty at 2600 to do some future CA if they want to.
Yeah EE have plently of Spectrum for a solid 4G network same with Vodafone. Three have a pretty solid amount as well. It's only O2 that has a problem.
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