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Series 7b is really Series 8... anyone else feel like we're being conned?


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Old 23-04-2013, 11:46
johnnysaucepn
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Which is why it was so frustrating that those of us who interpreted these things correctly and tried to remind people of what the most likely outcome would be, were routinely castigated and told that we were being pessimistic.
The truth is always somewhere in between. As I recall it, there were of course people being too optimistic, hoping that we would get two full series, but what I remember most is that neither of those viewpoints were substantiated - one or other of them was going to turn out to be correct, but nothing had be confirmed beyond rumours.

A good question about whether people felt cheated about 2009. Seemingly not. Disappointed, perhaps, but not cheated. The difference? Better judged PR statements.
I would say the difference was that the plan in 2008/09 was always to have a small number of episodes. They could make positive PR statements because the decision to save money and give the series a breather had been made much further in advance.

I do recall there being some doomsayers back then though too, telling us that it meant the BBC were tired of the series and trying to phase it out. Some things never change.
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Old 23-04-2013, 11:49
nebogipfel
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The quality is tip top. And the anniversary things (both known and unannounced) are going to be lovely. Just a pity that Cardiff chose to make a big deal over and over about shifting attention from the fact of fewer episodes. Perhaps if more straightforward things had been said (for example, Danny Cohen) it would have punctured the entitlement culture better.
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Old 23-04-2013, 11:53
Mulett
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You haven't been 'cheated' out of anything. Nobody, nobody promised you a full 13+1 episodes in 2012 and a full 13+1 episodes in 2013. That was never offered to you, you weren't cheated out of them.

We should be grateful they're able to make any at all, not because it's cheap, but because it's expensive and difficult.

Of course I would like more episodes, who wouldn't? But I'm sure the BBC would make them if it could afford them, and the people to do it were available.

Did you feel cheated that we didn't get a full series in 2009?
Sorry, Johnny, but I do disagree with you on this one.

I didn't feel cheated in 2009 because we were told, clearly, what was going on - specials in 2009, and a new full season in 2010. And that's exactly what happened.

Unfortunately, the BBC has taken a more 'smoke and mirrors' approach to its announcements of late and misrepresented what is going on.

So in November 2011, Steven Moffat tells us that Doctor Who is being moved back to its traditional 'autumn' home. "Doctor Who in the summer? It's just not right is it? Be honest," he said.

The autumn's not my preference, but OK its happening. What we actually got was just 5 episodes in autumn 2012, with the other 7 held back until April 2013.

And if the show really has been moved back to the autumn, where's the autumn 2013 start date for season 8?

And I really won't feel grateful that the show is being made at all. Its the ONLY sci-fi/fantasy show the BBC's making right now. I pay my licence fee like everyone else. Bloody right they should make something other than cop shows, period dramas and endless Eastenders.
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Old 23-04-2013, 12:42
mossy2103
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So in November 2011, Steven Moffat tells us that Doctor Who is being moved back to its traditional 'autumn' home.
Well it was at that point (without anyone saying that it was a permanent thing of course).
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Old 23-04-2013, 12:45
Mulett
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Well it was at that point (without anyone saying that it was a permanent thing of course).
Yes, I appreciate that Mossy,and I'm really not suggesting Moffat's being dishonest. I just think the BBC is being very deceitful in how its treating fans, viewers and the show itself.
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Old 23-04-2013, 13:11
Rooks
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Yes, I appreciate that Mossy,and I'm really not suggesting Moffat's being dishonest. I just think the BBC is being very deceitful in how its treating fans, viewers and the show itself.
This is what Steven Moffat said in Nov 2011:

“Very soon now, Doctor Who is going to enter production for the longest sustained period we’ve ever attempted, and the biggest and best and maddest time ever to be a fan of this wonderful old show is rumbling towards us. And yes, you got me. We needed a little more time to prepare for everything we’ve got planned. That, above all, is why we needed this tiny gap. Just be a tiny bit patient, and trust me, we’ll make it up to you.”
Now, a year and a half later, which part of that quote is true? I'm not trying to be unkind to him, I like him and I like his work but that quote is clearly a falsehood. The only way that quote could be true is if production was continuing straight from this series, into the special then into a new series immediately after. But Matt Smith is off to make a movie so unless there's a new Doctor waiting in the wings, ready to start filming next month then that quote is wrong.

So it's either a lie or Steven is being lied to himself. If the showrunner doesn't know what the scheduling of his own show is going to be then who does?
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Old 23-04-2013, 13:44
Chihiro94
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I haven't been on this forum in ages, and haven't really been following the new run until recently, but everyone I've talked to about it has just assumed it's a new series (say everyone, obviously not representive and I think they're all mostly casual veiwers) but it just feels separate.

Personally, I don't care when they run as long as their sort of regular or how many episodes we get. If they have to make less because theres no time or to keep qualty up then fair enough. What I've found really offputting though, and tbh part of the reason I haven't been into this series/run so much, is the 'dishonesty'. Intentional or otherwise, plans always seem to change.

First it was being split and then was going to move to autumn because that's where it belongs, then you'll get a full series in 2012 (this was the rhetoric i remember anyway, and whatever people think of entitlement, a full series at this point suggested more than 5 episodes) and then suddenly it was coming back in it's usual spring run time with what is apparently the rest of the series with a new companion and new storyline (bar the dalek clara episode, which imo was just a kind of lazy way of saying they're linked because the rest was all Ponds.

It's a best haphasid, at worst it seems like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes, and it for me it's put a damper on the whole experience. 2009 worked because they were much more upfront, and you sort of had an idea when they'd air, Sherlock, you wait long periods of time in between episodes without knowing exact airdates, but they're upfront about it so it's fine, and thats proper event television which Doctor Who just isn't.

All imo of course, but I do feel like I'm being conned, not in a entitlement sense where we're being cheated out of epsiodes, but because I don' think they're being honest with us and it's a little insulting. (I think hating so harshly on people and saying be glad we have it at all is unnescary, yes we weren't promised any episodes or a large number, but their comes a point where the producers/BBC need to be held accountable and explain their actions because ultimately it's the public paying)
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Old 23-04-2013, 13:48
Pyramidbread
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I'm glad with how it's worked out, we had a short series in September, a Christmas special, another half series, then were getting the 50th Anniversary, then a Christmas special, then hopefully series 8 or series 8a a few months after that.
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Old 23-04-2013, 14:11
Simon Watkins
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It didn't exactly help that the show relocated to Roath Lock midway through production, and that Moffat spent a long time (as usual!) writing the Christmas special, all in all 7A was filmed February - may 2012. As for 7B: Rings was shot in may, a break in June (maybe for the relocation?) Crimson Horror and Cold War in July, the Christmas special in August, Journey in September, Bells in October, Nightmare in Silver in November, and the finale in December.

pretty much a straight run, apart from the july break.
It didn't make any difference that the show located to Roath Lock. The show relocated between seasons from Celtic House to Upper Boat prior to this, without any problems. Furthermore, Casualty is a soap and relocated all the way from Bristol to Roath Lock without so much as a break sweat. That's just an excuse.

And just to nail that myth once and for all, Upperboat was still operational until Spring 2012, which is *after* the date that the series would have wrapped, if it had started production on the previous annual schedule anyway. So, if anything, it seems that the delayed production actually resulted in them having to extend the life of Upper Boat studios so it worked around Moffat rather than vice versa.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to point to production staff who are the ones who are always at the rough end, and have to work round everything, and yet have always managed to deliver, when it's clearly the lack of scripts that's the problem.

You also seem to have made up your dates - presumably from wishful thinking. They had a break after the Ponds left after filming ended for them after 12-May - that was for one week, and they had another week break during ComicCon during filming block 6 (Christmas Spesh and Crimson Horror) at the end of July - so eventually when they did move to Roath Lock again hardly delayed their plans because inconveniencing production crew is hardly a concern of the big guns.
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Old 23-04-2013, 14:30
DiscoP
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I do find it ironic that we were originally given the impression that the reason for the move was so that Doctor Who could be broadcast in the dark winter evenings but despite it being a long winter that never seemed to end Doctor Who seems to have done a pretty good job of avoiding it
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Old 23-04-2013, 14:40
Warmijwilf
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That didnt stop the BBC in the 80's cancelling it, for goodness sake cant people stop whining about everything
I for one am glad Dr Who is back on our screens regardless of how many episodes we get, and not about to throw a strop about the number of episodes.
Of course it didn't, and that was an extremely bad decision in my view, much worse than whatever is happening now obviously.

Bull.

It was never going to happen anyway because of Moffat's time commitment to Sherlock. Unless the OP and other people claiming they've been "cheated" wanted Moffat REPLACED, then this whole topic is bull#&#. However you numbered them, Moffat was only going to have time to showrun this many episodes.
Nice irrelevant fallacy you put there. Just because someone is annoyed that the BBC weren't forthcoming with information doesn't automatically mean we want a complete change of production.

Personally (I'm not sure about the OP) the idea of the commitment to Sherlock being an issue is what bothers me. Over the course of his run, RTD was able to juggle 3 series - Torchwood, Sarah Jane Adventures, and of course Doctor Who simultaneously. Whether or not you agree they were up to the same standard as Sherlock is up to opinion, but the fact is production time for Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures combined was equal if not more than the production time for Doctor Who (especially considering the amount of episodes we get of Sherlock every 2 years compared to the amount of episodes we got of TW/SJA, even if the runtime of a Sherlock episode is doubled it still doesn't compare).

Which is exactly why I'm annoyed - it clearly isn't Moffat's fault (before anyone takes this as me somehow making out RTD to be this godly writer and Moffat rubbish, I don't think that at all) that the Doctor Who runtime has been cut so drastically. I'm not personally in love with the idea of split series at all anyway, and I can't see series 8 being broadcast in standard 13 straight episode form. Who I am blaming are the BBC execs. At the very least they could've given us a notice that we were gonna get a drastically reduced number of episodes.

You haven't been 'cheated' out of anything. Nobody, nobody promised you a full 13+1 episodes in 2012 and a full 13+1 episodes in 2013. That was never offered to you, you weren't cheated out of them.

We should be grateful they're able to make any at all, not because it's cheap, but because it's expensive and difficult.

Of course I would like more episodes, who wouldn't? But I'm sure the BBC would make them if it could afford them, and the people to do it were available.

Did you feel cheated that we didn't get a full series in 2009?
I do understand the first bit - yes, I am grateful the show hasn't been canceled - except it doesn't make any sense. Doctor Who is marketed as an extremely high priority for the BBC (especially with its popularity not just in the UK but overseas), so why is its length being cut?

You mean the 2009 whose reduced length had been informed to us by the BBC a year beforehand, rather than promising us "More Doctor Who than ever" (like they did for this year) in 2009? Unless of course they meant merchandise and books, in which case that is a very misleading thing for us to be told.


This is what Steven Moffat said in Nov 2011:

"“Very soon now, Doctor Who is going to enter production for the longest sustained period we’ve ever attempted, and the biggest and best and maddest time ever to be a fan of this wonderful old show is rumbling towards us. And yes, you got me. We needed a little more time to prepare for everything we’ve got planned. That, above all, is why we needed this tiny gap. Just be a tiny bit patient, and trust me, we’ll make it up to you.”


Now, a year and a half later, which part of that quote is true? I'm not trying to be unkind to him, I like him and I like his work but that quote is clearly a falsehood. The only way that quote could be true is if production was continuing straight from this series, into the special then into a new series immediately after. But Matt Smith is off to make a movie so unless there's a new Doctor waiting in the wings, ready to start filming next month then that quote is wrong.

So it's either a lie or Steven is being lied to himself. If the showrunner doesn't know what the scheduling of his own show is going to be then who does?
Exactly. We were told one thing and then the opposite held true (less episodes rather than more). Makes no sense.
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Old 23-04-2013, 14:51
DiscoP
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It didn't make any difference that the show located to Roath Lock. The show relocated between seasons from Celtic House to Upper Boat prior to this, without any problems. Furthermore, Casualty is a soap and relocated all the way from Bristol to Roath Lock without so much as a break sweat. That's just an excuse.

And just to nail that myth once and for all, Upperboat was still operational until Spring 2012, which is *after* the date that the series would have wrapped, if it had started production on the previous annual schedule anyway. So, if anything, it seems that the delayed production actually resulted in them having to extend the life of Upper Boat studios so it worked around Moffat rather than vice versa.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to point to production staff who are the ones who are always at the rough end, and have to work round everything, and yet have always managed to deliver, when it's clearly the lack of scripts that's the problem.

You also seem to have made up your dates - presumably from wishful thinking. They had a break after the Ponds left after filming ended for them after 12-May - that was for one week, and they had another week break during ComicCon during filming block 6 (Christmas Spesh and Crimson Horror) at the end of July - so eventually when they did move to Roath Lock again hardly delayed their plans because inconveniencing production crew is hardly a concern of the big guns.
How do you know it's clearly the lack of scripts that's the problem as opposed to budget problems for example?
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Old 23-04-2013, 14:56
DiscoP
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I'm glad with how it's worked out, we had a short series in September, a Christmas special, another half series, then were getting the 50th Anniversary, then a Christmas special, then hopefully series 8 or series 8a a few months after that.
Personally I think that we won't see series 8 until Autumn 2014 at the earliest (JLC has already warned that there could be a delay before series 8 is broadcast).

I think Autumn would have worked fine if they had continued the series in January rather than April. There was nothing on TV on Saturday evenings in the first quarter of the year anyway, no Voice, no Britain's Got Talent. Doctor Who would have sat so well there. Maybe they decided to broadcast the second half of the series later in the year to reduce the gap between the end of series 7 and the anniversary special, especially if the finale is going to lead into the special.
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Old 23-04-2013, 15:23
macman11
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Personally (I'm not sure about the OP) the idea of the commitment to Sherlock being an issue is what bothers me. Over the course of his run, RTD was able to juggle 3 series - Torchwood, Sarah Jane Adventures, and of course Doctor Who simultaneously. Whether or not you agree they were up to the same standard as Sherlock is up to opinion, but the fact is production time for Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures combined was equal if not more than the production time for Doctor Who (especially considering the amount of episodes we get of Sherlock every 2 years compared to the amount of episodes we got of TW/SJA, even if the runtime of a Sherlock episode is doubled it still doesn't compare).

Which is exactly why I'm annoyed - it clearly isn't Moffat's fault (before anyone takes this as me somehow making out RTD to be this godly writer and Moffat rubbish, I don't think that at all) that the Doctor Who runtime has been cut so drastically. I'm not personally in love with the idea of split series at all anyway, and I can't see series 8 being broadcast in standard 13 straight episode form. Who I am blaming are the BBC execs. At the very least they could've given us a notice that we were gonna get a drastically reduced number of episodes.
It is obvious that, for whatever reason, the BBC really struggle to maintain a consistent 13 episodes per year schedule. Adhering to a regular schedule actually seems to be a consistent occurence with British TV shows

I'd be really disappointed if it is Moffat's commitment to Sherlock (again, the scheduling of this is also all over the place) that is causing the issue. If this is the case, the BBC should either be upfront and say "look, don't expect more than X episodes a year" or give the show to someone else.

Being honest, I think Moffat is a good guy to have running the show. I just wish they were upfront about what we're getting like they were for the 2009 specials. It was the denial that there would be anything less than a full series in 2012, followed by then announcing the move to Autumn, then announcing it was only half a series in Autumn, that annoyed me.

I'll mention it again - I will not be surprised if they announce that, after Christmas, Doctor Who is permanently moving to a Specials format with the first due in Autumn 2014. After this, it will be 2-3 hour episodes a year.
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Old 23-04-2013, 15:38
cat666
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IF the series was to stop now then we would have been cheated yes, however those episodes will still be made. Over a two calendar years we have had less episodes. There is no denying that but time doesn't stop at the end of this year does it?

If I had given you 13 apples a year for five years then said, oh I'm changing my distribution times you'll get these ones now and these ones at this time you aren't losing out on apples, you're just getting them at different times to normal

They are just going to be shown later than if a break wasn't taken. It's not cheating you out of anything at all
It's regularity what people want though. Aside from the Tennant special's year 1 year = 14 episodes. Now I couldn't care when those episodes were released during the year as long as we get 14 of them. If tat like Eastenders & Merlin gets regular air time and the same number of episodes per year then something like Doctor Who should be treated similarly.

The maths speaks for itself:

2005-2010 - Series 1-5 - Marchish - Juneish - 14 episodes a year in a straight run
2011 - Series 6 - April-Jun then August - October - 14 episodes but in 2 halves.
2012 - Series 7 Sep - 6 episodes
2013 - Series 7 April-May 8 episodes.

So we've "lost" a series essentially. Series 7 should have been done and dusted in 2012, and we should now be in the lull before series 8 starts this Autumn.

Don't get me wrong your post makes sense, we could still get back on track if series 8 does indeed start this Autumn, but seeing as they've yet to finish the 50th special which airs in November, I can't see series 8 starting until the autumn of 2014, where it will probably be split in 2 again, so we get the last half in early 2015 and end up even further behind.
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Old 23-04-2013, 15:54
Joe_Zel
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I'll mention it again - I will not be surprised if they announce that, after Christmas, Doctor Who is permanently moving to a Specials format with the first due in Autumn 2014. After this, it will be 2-3 hour episodes a year.
It wouldn't surprise me if they made it like Sherlock, 3-4 mini movies per year.

Or even if it became 30 minute episode miniseries with one story per year.
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Old 23-04-2013, 16:12
mossy2103
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If tat like Eastenders & Merlin gets regular air time and the same number of episodes per year then
If "tat" like Merlin ("tat" in your opinion, but simply not one shared by the millions who did watch it and enjoy it) is to he held up as an example, then Doctor Who's days would have been numbered some years ago, seeing as that "tat" has reached a conclusion and no more will be made.


I can't see series 8 starting until the autumn of 2014, where it will probably be split in 2 again, so we get the last half in early 2015 and end up even further behind.
Further behind? Further behind what? There is no published schedule to act as a yardstick is there?
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Old 23-04-2013, 16:18
Simon Watkins
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How do you know it's clearly the lack of scripts that's the problem as opposed to budget problems for example?
No matter how much budget they'd thrown at it, Moffat didn't have any scripts to start production on season 7 on the normal annual schedule.

He'd started season 6 production in September 2010 which was about 1 month slippage from season 5 (allowing for the fact that they didn't have the hassle of doing a Christmas Special in the July 2009 season 5 schedule).

Come Spring 2011, Moffat was still working on The Wedding of River Song that was due for production and airing that year (it's even speculated that the split season 6 was a necessity due to late production September 2010 start).

By the time Moffat had completed Sherlock season 2, there was nothing in the way of scripts for season 7 of Doctor Who at all, so what exactly was there of season 7 to shoot in Autumn 2011? The 2011 Christmas Special wasn't even written - that was a rushed out - did you notice that they didn't start shooting TDTWATW until September 2011? No wonder it was a bit crap!

The "Doctor Who in Summer is just wrong stuff" is only part of the article, and is your typical attempt by Moffat to smooth over the issue with a bit of spin. What Moffat said in DWM if you read the full article, was that he had to take a break because of the workload, and that's what he did. Hence production on season 7 didn't start until Feb 20th 2012. A whole slippage of 6 months from season 6's (already late) start date of September 2010, which was itself a slippage of the Season 5 start date of July 2009.

You can't have 13 episodes per season, per year if you slip each year - simple mathematics.

Regarding budget issues. It's clear that the BBC hierarchy would be delighted to have as much Doctor Who as possible, on account of the fact that it brings in approximately 5 times as much cash as it costs.

DQF (delivering quality first - the BBC's policy to manage its government budget hatchet job) specifically talks about concentrating on making shows that make a profit, to enable them to make up their shortfall and fund other less profitable shows.

If you google DQF, the first page returned actually mentions Doctor Who by name, so I don't think the position that the BBC wants to cut back on Doctor Who is really tenable.
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Old 23-04-2013, 16:18
Warmijwilf
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If "tat" like Merlin ("tat" in your opinion, but simply not one shared by the millions who did watch it and enjoy it) is to he held up as an example, then Doctor Who's days would have been numbered some years ago, seeing as that "tat" has reached a conclusion and no more will be made.



Further behind? Further behind what? There is no published schedule to act as a yardstick is there?
I'm assuming he means further behind how many episodes we would've got if the BBC didn't FUBAR the production schedule.
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Old 23-04-2013, 16:28
Simon Watkins
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Personally I think that we won't see series 8 until Autumn 2014 at the earliest (JLC has already warned that there could be a delay before series 8 is broadcast).

I think Autumn would have worked fine if they had continued the series in January rather than April. There was nothing on TV on Saturday evenings in the first quarter of the year anyway, no Voice, no Britain's Got Talent. Doctor Who would have sat so well there. Maybe they decided to broadcast the second half of the series later in the year to reduce the gap between the end of series 7 and the anniversary special, especially if the finale is going to lead into the special.
Considering that they didn't wrap until December 1st 2012, it probably wouldn't have really been a realistic possibility to get post production out of the way in time. Bear in mind also, that there's the BBC's Six Nation's Rugby coverage to slot in between February and early Spring, too.
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Old 23-04-2013, 16:39
DiscoP
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No matter how much budget they'd thrown at it, Moffat didn't have any scripts to start production on season 7 on the normal annual schedule.

He'd started season 6 production in September 2010 which was about 1 month slippage from season 5 (allowing for the fact that they didn't have the hassle of doing a Christmas Special in the July 2009 season 5 schedule).

Come Spring 2011, Moffat was still working on The Wedding of River Song that was due for production and airing that year (it's even speculated that the split season 6 was a necessity due to late production September 2010 start).

By the time Moffat had completed Sherlock season 2, there was nothing in the way of scripts for season 7 of Doctor Who at all, so what exactly was there of season 7 to shoot in Autumn 2011? The 2011 Christmas Special wasn't even written - that was a rushed out - did you notice that they didn't start shooting TDTWATW until September 2011? No wonder it was a bit crap!

The "Doctor Who in Summer is just wrong stuff" is only part of the article, and is your typical attempt by Moffat to smooth over the issue with a bit of spin. What Moffat said in DWM if you read the full article, was that he had to take a break because of the workload, and that's what he did. Hence production on season 7 didn't start until Feb 20th 2012. A whole slippage of 6 months from season 6's (already late) start date of September 2010, which was itself a slippage of the Season 5 start date of July 2009.

You can't have 13 episodes per season, per year if you slip each year - simple mathematics.

Regarding budget issues. It's clear that the BBC hierarchy would be delighted to have as much Doctor Who as possible, on account of the fact that it brings in approximately 5 times as much cash as it costs.

DQF (delivering quality first - the BBC's policy to manage its government budget hatchet job) specifically talks about concentrating on making shows that make a profit, to enable them to make up their shortfall and fund other less profitable shows.

If you google DQF, the first page returned actually mentions Doctor Who by name, so I don't think the position that the BBC wants to cut back on Doctor Who is really tenable.
Thanks for posting all of that information. From reading that it seems quite clear where the responsibility lies. I also read that the script for The Power of Three was rather late (another episode that seemed to be sadly lacking when it was aired - perhaps another couple of drafts would have solved the rather dodgy 'sonic fixes all' ending). Someone also mentioned that they had to shoot three episodes for series 7b simultaneously, in order to meet the deadline because the scripts were so late, which seemed remarkable because they had longer then ever to produce that series.

I guess it's the BBC's discretion as to whether they keep Moffat as the showrunner or find a replacement who can perhaps turn out scripts in a more timely manner. If Doctor Who is so profitable for them then they should be as keen as everyone else to get series produced.
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Old 23-04-2013, 16:47
cat666
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If "tat" like Merlin ("tat" in your opinion, but simply not one shared by the millions who did watch it and enjoy it) is to he held up as an example, then Doctor Who's days would have been numbered some years ago, seeing as that "tat" has reached a conclusion and no more will be made.



Further behind? Further behind what? There is no published schedule to act as a yardstick is there?
It doesn't have to be Merlin, any BBC funded show will do. Strictly Come Dancing, Springwatch, Waterloo Road etc. etc. They all get uncut runs and approximetley the same number of episodes each and every year. I'll admit people like those shows too, but Doctor Who is huge and for it to be moved around and cut in 2 is a slap in the face to the fans. You don't see your American Facebook friends getting hyped up about Waterloo Road, yet Doctor Who is all over there Facebook walls. Why should a show so beloved as Doctor Who get this sort of treatment, when "lesser" shows seems to get more respect?

In regard to further behind, behind the episodes we should be seeing. Although there is no published schedule, Nu-Who historically has ran from Marchish to Juneish yearly. Other than the well publicised blip with the Tennant specials, which very few fans had anything bad to say about, that has been the case right up until series 6. Even then the fans didn't really care about that split, it was all the same year at the end of the day, and we were told Who was moving to the Autumn so in 2012 we'd have our 13 episode series 7 in Autumn. Then it turned out we'd only get 5 episodes, so in 2012 we only had 6 episodes of a show we're used to getting 14 of with little to no annoucement why. It now appears the BBC have made the 8 episodes of series 7 we should really have had in Autumn 2012, as a "series 8" airing in its old yearly time slot. So where did the move to the autumn go? Does that means we get 13 more episodes in 2013? Unlikely.

I wouldn't be as miffed if the BBC has been open from the start, it just seems that the BBC are messing with a show that is adored by millions worldwide, for very little reasoning.
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Old 23-04-2013, 16:54
cat666
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No matter how much budget they'd thrown at it, Moffat didn't have any scripts to start production on season 7 on the normal annual schedule.

He'd started season 6 production in September 2010 which was about 1 month slippage from season 5 (allowing for the fact that they didn't have the hassle of doing a Christmas Special in the July 2009 season 5 schedule).

Come Spring 2011, Moffat was still working on The Wedding of River Song that was due for production and airing that year (it's even speculated that the split season 6 was a necessity due to late production September 2010 start).

By the time Moffat had completed Sherlock season 2, there was nothing in the way of scripts for season 7 of Doctor Who at all, so what exactly was there of season 7 to shoot in Autumn 2011? The 2011 Christmas Special wasn't even written - that was a rushed out - did you notice that they didn't start shooting TDTWATW until September 2011? No wonder it was a bit crap!

The "Doctor Who in Summer is just wrong stuff" is only part of the article, and is your typical attempt by Moffat to smooth over the issue with a bit of spin. What Moffat said in DWM if you read the full article, was that he had to take a break because of the workload, and that's what he did. Hence production on season 7 didn't start until Feb 20th 2012. A whole slippage of 6 months from season 6's (already late) start date of September 2010, which was itself a slippage of the Season 5 start date of July 2009.

You can't have 13 episodes per season, per year if you slip each year - simple mathematics.

Regarding budget issues. It's clear that the BBC hierarchy would be delighted to have as much Doctor Who as possible, on account of the fact that it brings in approximately 5 times as much cash as it costs.

DQF (delivering quality first - the BBC's policy to manage its government budget hatchet job) specifically talks about concentrating on making shows that make a profit, to enable them to make up their shortfall and fund other less profitable shows.

If you google DQF, the first page returned actually mentions Doctor Who by name, so I don't think the position that the BBC wants to cut back on Doctor Who is really tenable.
This strengthens my points. The BBC don't seem to be caring enough about a show that they really should be. No one person is bigger than Doctor Who as a series. If Smith, Moffat, etc. etc. are having issues fulfilling there commitment to the show then they should go. End of.

Worldwide fans are used to getting 14 new episdoes of Doctor Who a year and it makes the BBC money. There is absolutley no reason I can see for the splits and movements of the show, other than over commitment by various members of the team which really isn't on.

If they'd released a press release, ala the Tennant specials then it would have smoothed it over a bit, but the way it and the fans have been treated is just appalling.
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Old 23-04-2013, 17:03
macman11
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If they'd released a press release, ala the Tennant specials then it would have smoothed it over a bit, but the way it and the fans have been treated is just appalling.
Exactly. If they can't hack 13 episodes a year, they should just admit it. If they are upfront, the fans will understand. It is the smoke and mirrors treatment that is irritating people.

Moffat's "Doctor Who is the Summer is just wrong" line was cringe-worthy. I don't think anyone took this as a valid reason.
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Old 23-04-2013, 17:15
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Exactly. If they can't hack 13 episodes a year, they should just admit it. If they are upfront, the fans will understand. It is the smoke and mirrors treatment that is irritating people.

Moffat's "Doctor Who is the Summer is just wrong" line was cringe-worthy. I don't think anyone took this as a valid reason.
I think 13 episodes was chosen because that was the best number to sell to overseas broadcasters but then the Christmas episode was added each year and it was only really possible to produce that as well by having the Doctor-lite episodes. By all accounts it seems that RTD worked himself to the bone to achieve that. I wish they would just produce a number that is comfortable to achieve and stick to a regular pattern each year.
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