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Old 09-09-2010, 14:11
Captain Stable
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Are older films being resubmitted to the BBFC when they are released on DVD?

The reason I ask this is because the original Terminator, on VHS, was rated 18. I have yet to see an 18 rated version on DVD.

Apocalypse Now is another curious one.
I have the Redux version, which is 194 Minutes, and therefore I assume "Uncut", and is rated 15.
There is also the normal version, running for 153 Minutes and rated 18.

I also had on VHS, 18 rated versions of Terminator 2 and Die Hard 2, neither of which have ever shown up on DVD.

I'm not an anally retentive person who worries about this sort of thing, I'm just curious. I'm just a film buff who likes to see full films, not cut down versions.
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Old 09-09-2010, 14:25
Aneechik
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Some films are resubmitted, others aren't.

iirc, the post 2001 releases of Terminator 2 are the full cinema version - the original 15 rated video had a few shots removed from what was shown as a 15 in the cinema.
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Old 09-09-2010, 14:29
Captain Stable
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So how did I have an 18 rated version of T2.
And I don't mean it was the double VHS version with the original film on the same tape.
It was a separate release, the widescreen version.
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Old 09-09-2010, 15:15
Mark A
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The BBFC of the day was of the opinion that something that scraped a 15 for cinema release should get an 18 on VHS, as it was thought that minors would more likely see it in the home environment, and somehow an 18 rating would protect them more. Pretty flawed logic, when you think about it.

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Old 09-09-2010, 15:15
Aneechik
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So how did I have an 18 rated version of T2.
And I don't mean it was the double VHS version with the original film on the same tape.
It was a separate release, the widescreen version.
Back in the day they used to often rate films 18 on video that were 15 in the cinema, so I'd imagine there was an uncut re-release at some time before the 2001 liberalisation.
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Old 09-09-2010, 17:13
ginock
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I remember buying T2 on VHS I think in 1998 and it was a 15 then.
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Old 09-09-2010, 17:14
JCR
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The BBFC of the day was of the opinion that something that scraped a 15 for cinema release should get an 18 on VHS, as it was thought that minors would more likely see it in the home environment, and somehow an 18 rating would protect them more. Pretty flawed logic, when you think about it.

Regards

Mark
In T2 it was thought the knee capping shots weren't suitable for 15 as they might offend those in Northern Ireland.

It should be pointed out that from 1975-1999 the bbfc and what got what rating was basically decided by one man, the bbfc director James Ferman, and he had some, well, odd, opinions about some things. He once said that- I'm paraphrasing here- The Texas Chain Saw Massacre was fine for film students to watch, but what would happen if car workers from Birmingham saw it? And as such it was banned under his reign. As I said, odd.
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Old 09-09-2010, 19:20
CJClarke
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I also had on VHS, 18 rated versions of Terminator 2 and Die Hard 2, neither of which have ever shown up on DVD.
T2 is uncut on DVD/Blu Ray with a 15 certificate. The certificate was downgraded from the 18 rated VHS. Although, i think the makers of the Blu Ray messed up a little as my Steelbook copy of the Skynet Special Edition has a 15 certificate on the case, but an 18 certificate on the actual disc.

The DVD/Blu Ray of Die Hard 2 is definitely rated 18 as that's the version that i've got. It's an 18 because of the scene where Bruce Willis stabs a terrorist in the eyeball with an icicle (i think there's a few other additions in terms of swearing too). Sky Movies tend to show both versions of the film from time to time, with the 15 rated version being shown in the day (pin protected of course) and the 18 rated version being shown after 9pm/10pm.

All the 'Alien' films have recently been downgraded to 15 certificates too, but because the forthcoming 'Alien Anthology' Blu Ray set contains the original theatrical cuts, it's still rated 18 as 20th Century Fox only re-subitted the Directors Cuts/Special Editions.
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Old 09-09-2010, 23:01
ThatWasCool
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The DVD/Blu Ray of Die Hard 2 is definitely rated 18 as that's the version that i've got. It's an 18 because of the scene where Bruce Willis stabs a terrorist in the eyeball with an icicle (i think there's a few other additions in terms of swearing too). Sky Movies tend to show both versions of the film from time to time, with the 15 rated version being shown in the day (pin protected of course) and the 18 rated version being shown after 9pm/10pm.
My Die Hard 2 DVD both the UK and Irish ratings on it. It's an 18 in the UK but a 15 in Ireland.
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Old 09-09-2010, 23:15
snotrageater
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BBFC certificates change over time based on public opinion.
Some X rated horror movies get daytime tv broadcasts and PG certificates these days.

When a film is released on dvd after never having a home video release before it will be classified by todays standards.

Under Ferman there was a lot of stupid censorship with specific things banned outright like chainsticks and almost an auto upgrade to 18 for many 15 cinema films.

After the video nasties debacle it took a very long time for things to get back to sanity and in fact the black hole of UK censorship that was Fermans reign from 75-99 is a stain on UK film history.

Ferman made it clear to distrbutors that there was no point in submitting films like The Exorcist or Texas Chainsaw Massacre etc because they would not get passed.

It was a fortunate thing when he was kicked out and his personal campaign of nonsense came to an end.

Films are often resubmitted when the distributor wants a lower rating so while Raiders of the Lost Ark is unlikely to be resubmitted Temple of Doom might be when the Bluray comes out in order for the UK to get an uncut version after more than 25 years.

Last House On the Left was submitted several times over the last decade and finally got through uncut a year or two ago but the upcoming Bluray of I Spit On your Grave Uncut has had to altered because the film still has plenty of cuts despite many of them being restored compared to the previous UK dvd.

Of course anyone with sense has had the uncut US dvd for 10 years and it should be the same story for any films that get cut in the UK
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Old 09-09-2010, 23:20
Pistol Whip
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The BBFC of the day was of the opinion that something that scraped a 15 for cinema release should get an 18 on VHS, as it was thought that minors would more likely see it in the home environment, and somehow an 18 rating would protect them more. Pretty flawed logic, when you think about it.

Regards

Mark
James Ferman's doing, no doubt. That man was an real moron.
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Old 10-09-2010, 00:32
JCR
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James Ferman's doing, no doubt. That man was an real moron.
I think my favourite Ferman story was IIRC he told the Daily Mail that Romper Stomper was passed uncut due to an admin error, but they couldn't correct it.
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Old 10-09-2010, 01:29
Mr Obseen
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Starship Troopers was a 15 in the cinema but an 18 on video - very odd.
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:02
Mark A
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what would happen if car workers from Birmingham saw it?
Though to be fair to Ferman, Brummy car workers are probably fairly psychotic already.

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Mark
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:33
ThatWasCool
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Starship Troopers was a 15 in the cinema but an 18 on video - very odd.
I'd give it a 15. If it's ever re-submitted for Blu-Ray I'm sure it'll be downgraded.
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:26
LMTie
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Ironically, the BBFC's reclassification of certain films only serves to highlight how utterly pointless their existence really is.

It's a legalised money making scam, nothing more.
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Old 10-09-2010, 13:46
Arwen
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Starship Troopers was a 15 in the cinema but an 18 on video - very odd.
Stupid. I remember trying to buy it on VHS in a shop and being questioned (even though I was 19 at the time) on my age. I had a debate with the staff member that it was ridiculous them questioning my age when I was clearly well over 15, and had already *legally* seen the exact same film twice at the cinema.

That's the bonkers part of upgrading ratings for DVD releases.
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Old 10-09-2010, 14:21
snotrageater
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I'd give it a 15. If it's ever re-submitted for Blu-Ray I'm sure it'll be downgraded.
Not sure they would resubmit the film as it's already out on Bluray
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Old 10-09-2010, 14:29
snotrageater
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That's the bonkers part of upgrading ratings for DVD releases.
Ferman was a law unto himself and it's annoying that nobody questioned the stupidity of his logic .

The upgrading of ratings for dvd's is a practice that ended when he left the BBFC.

Somebody somewhere knew what he was doing because as soon as he left all the titles that had been a no go area were quickly submitted , passed and released and guess what?

Society is still standing.

Allowing Texas Chainsaw Massacre and The Exorcist out didn't lead us all to be nutters.

The Italian horror movie Zombie Flesh Eaters has a famous and quite gratuitous gore scene where a poor female has her eye forced onto a large wooden splinter .
The whole shot was censored by Ferman.
Now it was perhaps bad taste , it certainly made you go at the time but there is no justification for cutting it out.

I always wanted someone to ask Ferman what removing these OTT gore scenes was actually intended to achieve.

While not agreeing with the decision to censor I can see a logic behind cuts to I Spit On Your Grave , Death Wish 2 etc but the gory Italian horror movies of the 70's and 80's had no basis in reality so the cuts made to them made no sense
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Old 10-09-2010, 16:40
ThatWasCool
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Ferman was a law unto himself and it's annoying that nobody questioned the stupidity of his logic .

The upgrading of ratings for dvd's is a practice that ended when he left the BBFC.
Nope it didn't. 30 Days Of Night (which was released just three years ago) was upgraded from 15 at the cinema to 18 when it was released on DVD.
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Old 10-09-2010, 16:42
CJClarke
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I'd give it a 15. If it's ever re-submitted for Blu-Ray I'm sure it'll be downgraded.
It was re-submitted last year and they still gave it an 18. Personally, i think 18 is the right certificate for the movie, it's pretty graphic when it comes to the violence.
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Old 10-09-2010, 16:50
Aneechik
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Nope it didn't. 30 Days Of Night (which was released just three years ago) was upgraded from 15 at the cinema to 18 when it was released on DVD.
I don't know this for a fact with that movie, but a recent trend is for a studio to submit a film for a cut 15 at the cinema but reinstate the cut material for an 18 DVD. They also do it with cinema 12s and DVD 15s.

I recall reading somewhere that the bulk of cinemagoers are 13-18, so commercially it makes sense to get a lower 15 certificate for the cinema where it's harder for people under 18 to get in and see it but have an 18 on DVD where it's easy for under 18s to see it.
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Old 10-09-2010, 19:00
justpootling
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T2 is uncut on DVD/Blu Ray with a 15 certificate. The certificate was downgraded from the 18 rated VHS. Although, i think the makers of the Blu Ray messed up a little as my Steelbook copy of the Skynet Special Edition has a 15 certificate on the case, but an 18 certificate on the actual disc.

The DVD/Blu Ray of Die Hard 2 is definitely rated 18 as that's the version that i've got. It's an 18 because of the scene where Bruce Willis stabs a terrorist in the eyeball with an icicle (i think there's a few other additions in terms of swearing too).
As far as I know, there was never an 18 rated VHS version of T2, nor does the BBFC database list one. Pre-DVD, it was only released on Laserdisc at 18, a copy of which I own.

Strangely, there is no mention on the most recent reclassifications of T2 that previous cuts have been waived, so I assume the most recent UK DVD and Bluray versions are still cut.

Die Hard 2 was originally released on VHS pan and scan only, and heavily butchered with a 15, with an uncut 18 rated widescreen version on VHS which followed later. I think the DVD/Bluray versions of Die Hard 2 have always been uncut with an 18.
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Old 10-09-2010, 19:23
CJClarke
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As far as I know, there was never an 18 rated VHS version of T2, nor does the BBFC database list one. Pre-DVD, it was only released on Laserdisc at 18, a copy of which I own.

Strangely, there is no mention on the most recent reclassifications of T2 that previous cuts have been waived, so I assume the most recent UK DVD and Bluray versions are still cut.
I don't know how accurate it is, but Imdb's 'Alternate Versions' section states that the BBFC's cuts were fully waived in 2001. I do seem to remember the scenes that it says were cut being intact on the Blu Ray though.

Speaking of Arnie films, I recently saw the Blu Ray of 'Commando' which is uncut in the UK for the first time. The film actually makes sense now! On the DVD when Arnie punches the guy on the plane and says "please don't disturb my friend, he's dead tired" it seems as if the punch alone has killed him, when infact the Blu Ray shows Arnie snapping his neck before resting his head on the pillow. I just wish that they'd get around to re-classifying 'True Lies' for a Blu Ray release, the cut version of that film is one of the worst hack jobs i've ever seen (i managed to get hold of one of the initial DVD releases with the old style 15 certificate on the disc which was accidentally released completely uncut, but i'd still like it in HD!).

And also, wasn't '30 Days of Night' raised to an 18 on DVD because of a few brief additional scenes of violence? I seem to remember a scene at the end of the film where a persons head has been smashed in or exploded or something that wasn't as graphic in the cinema release.
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Old 10-09-2010, 19:33
ThatWasCool
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I don't know this for a fact with that movie, but a recent trend is for a studio to submit a film for a cut 15 at the cinema but reinstate the cut material for an 18 DVD. They also do it with cinema 12s and DVD 15s.
30 Days Of Night was passed uncut for cinema and DVD release. The second time the BBFC watched it (for DVD release) they thought it was more appropriate at 18 rather than 15. I've never seen it so I can't say what rating I agree with.
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