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BT to go mobile again, this time with O2


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Old 25-04-2013, 23:14
Nick_London
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http://m.gizmodo.co.uk/2013/04/bt-wa...-phone-market/

Yep I was right, BT plans another attempt at mobile phones.
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Old 25-04-2013, 23:18
enapace
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http://m.gizmodo.co.uk/2013/04/bt-wa...-phone-market/

Yep I was right, BT plans another attempt at mobile phones.
Good catch either O2 will enter this agreement or Three will it will be interesting to see who gets. As Vodafone has enough of 2,600MHz and EE has more than enough so can't see them interested. It's only Three and O2 who don't have that spectrum.

2x15 of 2,600MHz would certainly be useful to both of them plus they have 25MHz of unpaired if that can be made to work on LTE I forget if it can or not.

They have certainly left it late though when 4G is likely going to be rolled out by O2 in around 2 months at max. interesting to see how this develops though.

Update

Suppose after thought even Vodafone might be interested in this as that would allow them to reach same amount of spectrum EE has in 2,600MHz.
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Old 25-04-2013, 23:53
dannyb0yuk
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Weren't these two together in the past when it was BT Cellnet? I guess O2 is a wildly different beast now compared to what it was then.
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Old 26-04-2013, 00:05
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Here is the original FT article....


BT seeks mobile partner in 4G push


BT has begun the search for a mobile phone partner to support a renewed drive into the sector, setting up a potential reunion with O2, the mobile operator that it spun off 12 years ago.

The UK telecoms group has begun a tender for an operator to provide BT mobile services to its customers, both in the consumer and business markets, as well as supplying its own staff.


Consumer mobile has not been a focus for the group in recent years but people close to the process said BT wanted to connect customers using voice and internet services on devices both in and out of the home.

The decision follows the surprise acquisition by BT of almost £200m of 4G superfast mobile spectrum in the recent UK auction. Auction experts said BT had been unexpectedly aggressive in bidding for spectrum, ending up with more than it needed for simply boosting its widespread WiFi networks.

The company has kept plans for spectrum use private so far but it could be traded or used as part of a deal with a new mobile phone partner for 4G services to customers, people familiar with the situation said.

BT has opened the tender to all operators but one person familiar with the situation said any spectrum arrangement could favour a deal with O2, the mobile business divested in 2001. Analysts were surprised that O2 did not acquire any of the higher-frequency spectrum at the auction that was bought by BT.

The former state monopoly had been under pressure to demerge O2, which was then known as Cellnet, by shareholders, given its high debt at the time. O2 was subsequently acquired by Spain’s Telefónica in 2005.

BT has operated a small mobile business using Vodafone’s networks for about nine years, although people familiar with the company said that this agreement was nullified following Vodafone’s acquisition last year of Cable & Wireless Worldwide, BT’s UK-based network rival.

Vodafone is rebidding for the mobile services alongside EE and O2, said people familiar with the process. Vodafone declined to comment.

BT said: “We can confirm we’re looking for a fresh partnership with a mobile operator. We won some excellent 4G spectrum just recently so it makes sense for us to explore the new opportunities that 4G presents. We have a strong position in the WiFi market and we are looking to build on that.

“[BT is] rolling out fibre at breakneck speed and it’s obvious that customers want decent speeds when they’re out and about as well as at home.”

Those familiar with the tender said it could lead to a more significant push into the consumer mobile market for BT, which already offers so-called triple or quad “play” bundles of phone services, broadband and TV.

Analysts have suggested, for example, that BT could offer in-home 4G services that augment its existing WiFi service but with mobile roaming with its operator partner when not in range of hotspots. This could include streaming its relaunched internet TV services on the move.
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Old 26-04-2013, 00:08
enapace
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Here is the original FT article....
Thank you for that can't believe I missed this I suppose we will in next few weeks how this is going to turn out.
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Old 26-04-2013, 00:33
Everything Goes
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BT won the following allocations:

2 x 15 MHz of 2.6 GHz and
1 x 20 MHz of 2.6 GHz (unpaired)

The unpaired spectrum will only work with LTE TDD. Vodafone are the only other network to have some unpaired 2.6GHz spectrum 1 x 25 MHz of 2.6 GHz (unpaired)

http://media.ofcom.org.uk/2013/02/20...obile-auction/
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Old 26-04-2013, 00:43
enapace
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BT won the following allocations:

2 x 15 MHz of 2.6 GHz and
1 x 20 MHz of 2.6 GHz (unpaired)

The unpaired spectrum will only work with LTE TDD. Vodafone are the only other network to have some unpaired 2.6GHz spectrum 1 x 25 MHz of 2.6 GHz (unpaired)

http://media.ofcom.org.uk/2013/02/20...obile-auction/
But a potential thing to use the unpaired for in the future.
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Old 26-04-2013, 10:36
japaul
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The unpaired TDD spectrum could be used now for LTE as there are already devices supporting it and I think the GS4 does too. It's gaining traction as it's been popular in Asia so the chipsets support it. Could be used for additional capacity and whilst not part of the current carrier aggregation standards under LTE-Advanced there is work going on to standardise a sort of mixed mode CA where you can combine FDD and TDD so for example the BT spectrum could in theory give you 35MHz down and 15 up.

Totally different to what happened under 3G where all of the networks (except Vodafone) got a small amount of unpaired TDD spectrum which has remained unused. I guess it will eventually be refarmed and used for LTE TDD.
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Old 26-04-2013, 23:44
noise747
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I hope they do a better job than they did when they was running BT broadband anywhere, in which they offered a mobile phone and broadband in a package. The phone was naff to be honest, even then and Bt had little interest in it.


As been said Cellnet used to belong to Bt until they flogged it off and it became O2. i still got a original cellnet simcard, but It don't work anymore as i have not used it for around 4 years.
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Old 27-04-2013, 09:01
Nick_London
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I hope they do a better job than they did when they was running BT broadband anywhere, in which they offered a mobile phone and broadband in a package. The phone was naff to be honest, even then and Bt had little interest in it.


As been said Cellnet used to belong to Bt until they flogged it off and it became O2. i still got a original cellnet simcard, but It don't work anymore as i have not used it for around 4 years.
Its about time though, our national telecoms operator doesn't have a mobile network in its own country, most European countries do and its about time BT started something.

Telefonica could end up selling off my O2 assets and BT could be the one that would buy them. Telefonica state they do not intend to sell off O2 UK not even an IPO. However despite its customer base growing by 282,000 this quarter and with revenues down by 8.5% plus its parent company oweing £46 Billion, Telefonica could be forced to sell if it gets any worse.

Its not because O2 is not proftable, but because Telefonica borrowed too much money to buy out O2 and other businesses across the globe.

BT have a very extensive infrastructure reaching the most rural of places, with this it can build a 4G network with O2 and become a top seller. 4G coverage boost in urban and some non urban areas? Well BT could make use of its telephone boxes for this as it has done with Wifi and install Macrocell masts inside. There are over 60,000 BT phone boxes across the UK and would be a good use for them to make up for the drop in usage as well as combat blackspots.

There are so many options for BT as well as O2, they just need to hurry up!

BT working with Vodafone will not work in the future as they are now full on rivals with eachother.

BT working with 3, very much doubt it, 3 has already teamed up with Virgin Media for network backhaul and other things and because of its partnership with EE with MBNL, for operational reasons it may not work with 3.
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Old 27-04-2013, 09:57
wavejockglw
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As more customers move to triple and quad play services its right for BT to make a serious move back into the mobile market. The 2600Mhz spectrum they bought probably was not for their own use but very useful as a bargaining tool to get a partnership where they can get more than their fair share of revenues.

If BT decide to offer quad play I expect Sky will have to make a move and establish an MVNO to compete directly with them, Virgin Media and TalkTalk. One bill for pay TV and communications is an attractive option for some people.

It looks like there are going to be more options for mobile users in the years to come and that can be no bad thing.
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Old 27-04-2013, 10:10
noise747
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Its about time though, our national telecoms operator doesn't have a mobile network in its own country, most European countries do and its about time BT started something.

Telefonica could end up selling off my O2 assets and BT could be the one that would buy them. Telefonica state they do not intend to sell off O2 UK not even an IPO. However despite its customer base growing by 282,000 this quarter and with revenues down by 8.5% plus its parent company oweing £46 Billion, Telefonica could be forced to sell if it gets any worse.

Its not because O2 is not proftable, but because Telefonica borrowed too much money to buy out O2 and other businesses across the globe.

BT have a very extensive infrastructure reaching the most rural of places, with this it can build a 4G network with O2 and become a top seller. 4G coverage boost in urban and some non urban areas? Well BT could make use of its telephone boxes for this as it has done with Wifi and install Macrocell masts inside. There are over 60,000 BT phone boxes across the UK and would be a good use for them to make up for the drop in usage as well as combat blackspots.

There are so many options for BT as well as O2, they just need to hurry up!

BT working with Vodafone will not work in the future as they are now full on rivals with eachother.

BT working with 3, very much doubt it, 3 has already teamed up with Virgin Media for network backhaul and other things and because of its partnership with EE with MBNL, for operational reasons it may not work with 3.
But Bt does these things and then they don't support it, as I said, BT broadband anywhere, they did not support. just think what it could be like now with the phones that are available.

The service is still going but they offer HTC Desire X or HTC Desire C, oh wow, that will really do a good job.

I know the monthly cost for the minimum package is only a fiver, but the phones are £233.50 and £306.40. the higher packages are not great to be honest.

They are not even advertised, i bet Bt only keeps them for the few people that still uses the service.

What telephone boxes? I see fewer and fewer of them.

TBH, i don't think I want Bt to get into anything else, they already got a monopoly on the phone and broadband network.


I use vodafone for my mobile phone service, it does the job, may have a look at 3 next year, but I think I will give O2 a miss and certainly avoid anything BT does if I can help it.
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Old 27-04-2013, 10:14
noise747
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As more customers move to triple and quad play services its right for BT to make a serious move back into the mobile market. The 2600Mhz spectrum they bought probably was not for their own use but very useful as a bargaining tool to get a partnership where they can get more than their fair share of revenues.

If BT decide to offer quad play I expect Sky will have to make a move and establish an MVNO to compete directly with them, Virgin Media and TalkTalk. One bill for pay TV and communications is an attractive option for some people.

I am so glad i got out of this triple play thing, broadband is with allpay, Mobile is a sim only contract with vodafone, 12 month contract, but then I can move. No home phone apart from VoIP, which is done by sipgate. TV is netflix and that is it.

Lots of direct debits, but at least I can keep a eye on them and i know how much goes to what company, apart from sipgate as I top that up months ago.

i know some people will want it all in one, but i been there with Bt and their mobile service, not going there again.

It looks like there are going to be more options for mobile users in the years to come and that can be no bad thing.
Depends, who they knock out and if customer service suffers, not that it can suffer much more to be honest.
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Old 27-04-2013, 12:52
*MikeB*
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BT will use some of the LTE spectrum for home broadband in rural areas I think also. For customers that they can't serve using the FTTC and where it is uneconomic to use FTTP.
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Old 28-04-2013, 10:10
Nick_London
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But Bt does these things and then they don't support it, as I said, BT broadband anywhere, they did not support. just think what it could be like now with the phones that are available.

The service is still going but they offer HTC Desire X or HTC Desire C, oh wow, that will really do a good job.

I know the monthly cost for the minimum package is only a fiver, but the phones are £233.50 and £306.40. the higher packages are not great to be honest.

They are not even advertised, i bet Bt only keeps them for the few people that still uses the service.

What telephone boxes? I see fewer and fewer of them.

TBH, i don't think I want Bt to get into anything else, they already got a monopoly on the phone and broadband network.


I use vodafone for my mobile phone service, it does the job, may have a look at 3 next year, but I think I will give O2 a miss and certainly avoid anything BT does if I can help it.
That service is actually closed to new customers.

With macrocells in telephone boxes I was refering to urban areas like City of London,Westminster ect.... Many are conservation areas and finding sites is hard. There is no point installing macrocells in less urban areas as it only covers a small area. The point of Macrocells in telephone boxes is to avoid planning regulations and to stamp out blackspots in urban areas.

There lots of telephone boxes around, on top of BT's there are also over 2,000 operated by Arqiva and another. Arqiva are the ones who manage a lot of mobile base stations as well as TV broadcasting. They acquired Spectrum Interactive , a payphone and wifi operator. They have already started rolling out wifi and macrocells are already present in some by T-Mobile for quite some time.


Now about BT and a monopoly forming. If you look at the bigger picture and start thinking Britain is part of Europe, you will see that it is in fact France Telecom and Deutsche Telekom who are monopolising. The latest attempt is EE, they should never have been given permission to merge.

You go to Germany and Greece where Deutsche Telekom operate, and see what a monopoly that is. You will find that BT is quite an open network. Ofcoms intervention into how BT is run and some of the conditions it has to follow have badly effected BT's revenues, and is a reason why fibre roll out is so slow. Too much competition and such rivals who contribute very little into building fibre Britain.
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Old 28-04-2013, 10:29
Nick_London
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That service is actually closed to new customers.

With macrocells in telephone boxes I was refering to urban areas like City of London,Westminster ect.... Many are conservation areas and finding sites is hard. There is no point installing macrocells in less urban areas as it only covers a small area. The point of Macrocells in telephone boxes is to avoid planning regulations and to stamp out blackspots in urban areas.

There lots of telephone boxes around, on top of BT's there are also over 2,000 operated by Arqiva and another. Arqiva are the ones who manage a lot of mobile base stations as well as TV broadcasting. They acquired Spectrum Interactive , a payphone and wifi operator. They have already started rolling out wifi and macrocells are already present in some by T-Mobile for quite some time.


Now about BT and a monopoly forming. If you look at the bigger picture and start thinking Britain is part of Europe, you will see that it is in fact France Telecom and Deutsche Telekom who are monopolising. The latest attempt is EE, they should never have been given permission to merge.

You go to Germany and Greece where Deutsche Telekom operate, and see what a monopoly that is. You will find that BT is quite an open network. Ofcoms intervention into how BT is run and some of the conditions it has to follow have badly effected BT's revenues, and is a reason why fibre roll out is so slow. Too much competition and such rivals who contribute very little into building fibre Britain.
Another Thatcherite decision of selling off the family silver. At least countries like Germany held on to half of there public services, the government owns at least half of every former predominant company.

Npower
Arriva now owned by DB, germanys state owned national transport company.
EON
EE
EDF Energy, french state owned company
Telefonica O2
Hutchison Whampoa
Scottish and southern energy
Thames water,Arqiva both owned by Macquarie

Those are just some of the UK's major utility and transport companies all foreign owned and many which are foreign state owned, bleeding money out of the UK.

Even India has a policy in place that controls foreign rivals, Vodafone amongst other multinationals have to give the indian government a 30% share of the companies.

Why couldn't Britain do that long before and maybe the economy and public services may not be in such a state today.
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Old 28-04-2013, 10:35
noise747
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That service is actually closed to new customers.
Ah, I see, as I said, Bt does these things and then got no interest in them after. It is a wonder Bt vision got anywhere, oh I forgot, it did not really.


With macrocells in telephone boxes I was refering to urban areas like City of London,Westminster ect.... Many are conservation areas and finding sites is hard. There is no point installing macrocells in less urban areas as it only covers a small area. The point of Macrocells in telephone boxes is to avoid planning regulations and to stamp out blackspots in urban areas.

The word Macro more or less gave it away that iw was only for small areas. Not sure if I would like to be that close to one to be honest.

There lots of telephone boxes around, on top of BT's there are also over 2,000 operated by Arqiva and another. Arqiva are the ones who manage a lot of mobile base stations as well as TV broadcasting. They acquired Spectrum Interactive , a payphone and wifi operator. They have already started rolling out wifi and macrocells are already present in some by T-Mobile for quite some time.
There are different companies still operating phone boxes? i remember years ago Mercury did some, but I thought when they went belly up that was it.

Only BT here, but then this is a only a small city. We still got some of the older red one in the city center, which is nice to see. but of cause we also got some semi open ones, but they are not used that much, apart from being toilets,


We have at long last got free Wi-fi in the city centre, from a local company, in fact that same company that supplies my broadband, the problem is there is very little reason to go into the city centre.

The service is FREE for all to use, for up to 1 hour in any 24 hour period but pay as you go packages are available if you wish to use the service for longer.

I had to copy that from their site as i could not remember. but the longer use payments are not great to be honest
package 1
Unlimited data for 24 hours £10
Package 2
Unlimited data for 48 hours £18

Package 3
2,000 minutes within 7 days £25

Maybe a pay as you go system would be useful as well.
Myself, I can use it for free as long as i want as I am a customer.

Not that I am that bothered.


Now about BT and a monopoly forming. If you look at the bigger picture and start thinking Britain is part of Europe, you will see that it is in fact France Telecom and Deutsche Telekom who are monopolising. The latest attempt is EE, they should never have been given permission to merge.
I agree to a certain extent, but people do have a choice on networks, not a very large one I must admit, but they do have a choice.

With fixed line telecoms, we got no choice unless you are in a cable area.

I want fibre, must use BT system, it don't matter what Isp I use, it will go though Bt, which sets the prices for other ISps.

i want ADSl, still need BT lines even if I use LLU, i also still have to pay for a voice phone service, even if it is never used.
Oh yes, you get things like evening and weekend calls added, even if they are never used.

I would prefer to have cheaper line rental and none of that added.

You go to Germany and Greece where Deutsche Telekom operate, and see what a monopoly that is. You will find that BT is quite an open network. Ofcoms intervention into how BT is run and some of the conditions it has to follow have badly effected BT's revenues, and is a reason why fibre roll out is so slow. Too much competition and such rivals who contribute very little into building fibre Britain.
I don't live in Germany or Greece. I am not going to feel sorry about Bt revenues, their share holders are still doing ok out of it.

Such a open network that smaller Isps still have to charge a lot more for FTTC. But then it is the always the same here, big companies pushing out the smaller ones including the one I work for.
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Old 28-04-2013, 16:03
Nick_London
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Ah, I see, as I said, Bt does these things and then got no interest in them after. It is a wonder Bt vision got anywhere, oh I forgot, it did not really.





The word Macro more or less gave it away that iw was only for small areas. Not sure if I would like to be that close to one to be honest.



There are different companies still operating phone boxes? i remember years ago Mercury did some, but I thought when they went belly up that was it.

Only BT here, but then this is a only a small city. We still got some of the older red one in the city center, which is nice to see. but of cause we also got some semi open ones, but they are not used that much, apart from being toilets,


We have at long last got free Wi-fi in the city centre, from a local company, in fact that same company that supplies my broadband, the problem is there is very little reason to go into the city centre.

The service is FREE for all to use, for up to 1 hour in any 24 hour period but pay as you go packages are available if you wish to use the service for longer.

I had to copy that from their site as i could not remember. but the longer use payments are not great to be honest
package 1
Unlimited data for 24 hours £10
Package 2
Unlimited data for 48 hours £18

Package 3
2,000 minutes within 7 days £25

Maybe a pay as you go system would be useful as well.
Myself, I can use it for free as long as i want as I am a customer.

Not that I am that bothered.



I agree to a certain extent, but people do have a choice on networks, not a very large one I must admit, but they do have a choice.

With fixed line telecoms, we got no choice unless you are in a cable area.

I want fibre, must use BT system, it don't matter what Isp I use, it will go though Bt, which sets the prices for other ISps.

i want ADSl, still need BT lines even if I use LLU, i also still have to pay for a voice phone service, even if it is never used.
Oh yes, you get things like evening and weekend calls added, even if they are never used.

I would prefer to have cheaper line rental and none of that added.



I don't live in Germany or Greece. I am not going to feel sorry about Bt revenues, their share holders are still doing ok out of it.

Such a open network that smaller Isps still have to charge a lot more for FTTC. But then it is the always the same here, big companies pushing out the smaller ones including the one I work for.
BT Vision is getting better, they have just invested in football rights and are taking over ESPN in the UK and ireland. BT sport will be launching in the next few months. BT Vision now has live TV channels in addition to freeviw, more will be added soon.

As for the phoneboxes, many people do still use them believe it or not and the semi open ones are used more than the old red ones which are unpleasant. The red ones are listed buildings and many cannot be removed even if Ofcom and the authorities agree to certain payphones being terminated. Mercury didn't go bust they rebranded as Cable and Wireless, all there payphones were card operated and people prefer to pay with coins, they were sold off in 1995 became orange interphone kiosks, additionally another company New world payphones also set up and they are now owned by Arqiva.

BT is rolling out wifi to many kiosks and I for one take advantage of it as it is free out of your mobile allowance.

BT mobile under the current scheme did not take off well because it is an MVNO and Vodafone charge so much making BT Mobile uncompetitive.

You say you have no choice in phone service. Well even in my area which is a Cable area, Virgin Media is over priced especially the home phone service, they are the most expensive for landlines in the UK. If you see how much they charge for line rental on top of out of bundle call charges, it really isn't worth having a phone at all! Are you going to tell me there excuse is because BT charge them too much money? Virgin Media own and manage there own phone lines, there really isn't an excuse to charge what they do.

People forget that the UK is a small island, we are not in America, we haven't got the capacity to dig up the streets for additional telecoms networks.

The electricity network is the same, owned and managed by one company, you then pay some foreign state owned company like EDF every month for electricity. At one point EDF even owned the electricity distribution here in London.

I don't think the likes of TalkTalk,Sky and Virgin Media would be able to maintain a national network on the scale of BT's.

That's the thing with Sky, the amount of money they make, yet they contribute very little into investments into the network they depend on.

You pay alternative service providers for calls, they make money but that money doesn't go into investment of the network which is the general idea, it just goes into someones bank account.

The idea of paying for phone calls is so that a network can be maintained, it is a public service, If excess profits are being made, it is likely under investment is taking place. People don't look beyond the word free or want everthing cheap, at the end of the day, you pay little you get little back.

Renationalising BT would be the way. Plenty of money to invest in fibre,3G and 4G, silly ideas of competition, it hasn't worked. Parts of the country are being left behind.
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Old 29-04-2013, 09:15
noise747
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BT Vision is getting better, they have just invested in football rights and are taking over ESPN in the UK and ireland. BT sport will be launching in the next few months. BT Vision now has live TV channels in addition to freeviw, more will be added soon.
Fair enough, but it have taken a long time to get going. I know two people who had BT vision, both had problems, the bloke over the road had loads of problems with it and gave up in the end.

A good friend of mine did not have as many problems, but the content was awful, that was the time when I was thinking of getting it myself until BT mucked up my connection with their ADSL2+ system

The main problem my friend had was those powerplugs, we had to take a ethernet cable from upstairs, down through the ceiling and to her BT vision box for it to work.
Then the box itself broke down, she had a new one, but it was problematic as well.
Then for some reason her broadband connection dropped in speed and that was it. she was on the edge anyway.

After her contract ended she got rid of BT and got the same system I got, in fact it was because she got it that I went for it as I was impressed.

As for the phoneboxes, many people do still use them believe it or not and the semi open ones are used more than the old red ones which are unpleasant. The red ones are listed buildings and many cannot be removed even if Ofcom and the authorities agree to certain payphones being terminated.
Most of ours in town vanished years ago and then months after they came back. i have no idea what happened there.

I like the old red ones, I don't use them much these days, Too expensive now

Mercury didn't go bust they rebranded as Cable and Wireless, all there payphones were card operated and people prefer to pay with coins, they were sold off in 1995 became orange interphone kiosks, additionally another company New world payphones also set up and they are now owned by Arqiva.
Oh yeah, that is right, I remember now, It was always part of Cable and wireless i think and they just dropped the name Mercury.

I have one of their old phones in the loft with a Mercury button, then I had a box for my phone to plug into. See I hated BT even back then.

Always Bt phone boxes here, too small a city for anyone else to bother with.

BT is rolling out wifi to many kiosks and I for one take advantage of it as it is free out of your mobile allowance.
Don't get me wrong, I think wi-fi is a good idea and I am glad that here it is a local company that is supplying it, I don't think it goes far enough mind you, it only in the center of town, it should go to the cathedral as many people sit down around that area, maybe they can't as it will interfere with the acess point on the cathedral itself that supplies the main signal, including mine. You can't directly get a wi-fi signal from the cathedral access point, that needs a different module like the one on my roof.

My problem is that there is nothing really to go into town for and stay there for any amount of time, no doubt some people who have a dinner hour and they are close to town may go to one of the pavement cafes if it is nice and use the Wi-fi.

But that is it to be honest, I got to pop into town later, I will take the info and may pop the info into my phone .

I don't want the council complaining that no one is using it, but it needs more adverting.

BT mobile under the current scheme did not take off well because it is an MVNO and Vodafone charge so much making BT Mobile uncompetitive.
Wow, fancy that, shoe on the other foot.

You say you have no choice in phone service. Well even in my area which is a Cable area, Virgin Media is over priced especially the home phone service, they are the most expensive for landlines in the UK. If you see how much they charge for line rental on top of out of bundle call charges, it really isn't worth having a phone at all! Are you going to tell me there excuse is because BT charge them too much money? Virgin Media own and manage there own phone lines, there really isn't an excuse to charge what they do.
But then people got a choice, you don't even have to have a phone with VM, you can just have broadband. Try doing that with Bt or any service that uses BT systems.

If it is more expensive not to have a phone or not have never been the point. the point is choice.

We all know that the more you buy from these companies then the more you save, but only if you want them int he first place.
it is like going to a supermarket and seeing a 3 for 2 offer and you only want one, but think you are getting a good deal buying all three. but you are not if you are not going to use the product.

I know people who got the whole lot from Sky, phone, broadband and TV, it works for them because they use it and they want it, but some of them are cutting down now by getting rid of movies, sports or both.

Until Allpay started up their service here I had no choice, I had to pay full price for a phone line for voice calls, even if it was never used for that.


People forget that the UK is a small island, we are not in America, we haven't got the capacity to dig up the streets for additional telecoms networks.

The electricity network is the same, owned and managed by one company, you then pay some foreign state owned company like EDF every month for electricity. At one point EDF even owned the electricity distribution here in London.
But I got a choice what company I can use and just because I take electric, i don't have to take gas from the same supplier or take gas at all if I don't need it.

I don't think the likes of TalkTalk,Sky and Virgin Media would be able to maintain a national network on the scale of BT's.
Maybe not, but that is not the point. I still thin that BT wholesale and BT openreach should be separate from BT retail. In other words it should be three different companies, with no connections what so even between them


That's the thing with Sky, the amount of money they make, yet they contribute very little into investments into the network they depend on.
Nor do Talk Talk for that matter.

You pay alternative service providers for calls, they make money but that money doesn't go into investment of the network which is the general idea, it just goes into someones bank account.

The idea of paying for phone calls is so that a network can be maintained, it is a public service, If excess profits are being made, it is likely under investment is taking place. People don't look beyond the word free or want everthing cheap, at the end of the day, you pay little you get little back.

Renationalising BT would be the way. Plenty of money to invest in fibre,3G and 4G, silly ideas of competition, it hasn't worked. Parts of the country are being left behind.
But we are paying for services we don't want. if I wanted broadband from BT, Talk Talk, Sky, no doubt there are others, I would have to pay them for line rental, no choice in that matter. I got to use their phone service. It used to be the case that you could just have broadband and pay line rental to another company, even Bt stopped that now.
You want our broadband then you pay us for line rental.

Only one of the larger ISPs i know of allows people to have broadband only and get their line rental elsewhere and that is Plusnet and that is part of BT.

I myself would prefer to pay less line rental and have no home phone service, but that is not possible on fixed lines.

This is one of the reason I went with who I am with, also because they offer a better service than I got with ADSL.
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Old 29-04-2013, 10:11
Everything Goes
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BT and O2 sign 10 year deal

Its a done deal with O2 and BT!

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/25...G_rollout.aspx
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Old 29-04-2013, 10:36
Nick_London
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Fair enough, but it have taken a long time to get going. I know two people who had BT vision, both had problems, the bloke over the road had loads of problems with it and gave up in the end.

A good friend of mine did not have as many problems, but the content was awful, that was the time when I was thinking of getting it myself until BT mucked up my connection with their ADSL2+ system

The main problem my friend had was those powerplugs, we had to take a ethernet cable from upstairs, down through the ceiling and to her BT vision box for it to work.
Then the box itself broke down, she had a new one, but it was problematic as well.
Then for some reason her broadband connection dropped in speed and that was it. she was on the edge anyway.

After her contract ended she got rid of BT and got the same system I got, in fact it was because she got it that I went for it as I was impressed.



Most of ours in town vanished years ago and then months after they came back. i have no idea what happened there.

I like the old red ones, I don't use them much these days, Too expensive now



Oh yeah, that is right, I remember now, It was always part of Cable and wireless i think and they just dropped the name Mercury.

I have one of their old phones in the loft with a Mercury button, then I had a box for my phone to plug into. See I hated BT even back then.

Always Bt phone boxes here, too small a city for anyone else to bother with.



Don't get me wrong, I think wi-fi is a good idea and I am glad that here it is a local company that is supplying it, I don't think it goes far enough mind you, it only in the center of town, it should go to the cathedral as many people sit down around that area, maybe they can't as it will interfere with the acess point on the cathedral itself that supplies the main signal, including mine. You can't directly get a wi-fi signal from the cathedral access point, that needs a different module like the one on my roof.

My problem is that there is nothing really to go into town for and stay there for any amount of time, no doubt some people who have a dinner hour and they are close to town may go to one of the pavement cafes if it is nice and use the Wi-fi.

But that is it to be honest, I got to pop into town later, I will take the info and may pop the info into my phone .

I don't want the council complaining that no one is using it, but it needs more adverting.



Wow, fancy that, shoe on the other foot.



But then people got a choice, you don't even have to have a phone with VM, you can just have broadband. Try doing that with Bt or any service that uses BT systems.

If it is more expensive not to have a phone or not have never been the point. the point is choice.

We all know that the more you buy from these companies then the more you save, but only if you want them int he first place.
it is like going to a supermarket and seeing a 3 for 2 offer and you only want one, but think you are getting a good deal buying all three. but you are not if you are not going to use the product.

I know people who got the whole lot from Sky, phone, broadband and TV, it works for them because they use it and they want it, but some of them are cutting down now by getting rid of movies, sports or both.

Until Allpay started up their service here I had no choice, I had to pay full price for a phone line for voice calls, even if it was never used for that.




But I got a choice what company I can use and just because I take electric, i don't have to take gas from the same supplier or take gas at all if I don't need it.



Maybe not, but that is not the point. I still thin that BT wholesale and BT openreach should be separate from BT retail. In other words it should be three different companies, with no connections what so even between them




Nor do Talk Talk for that matter.



But we are paying for services we don't want. if I wanted broadband from BT, Talk Talk, Sky, no doubt there are others, I would have to pay them for line rental, no choice in that matter. I got to use their phone service. It used to be the case that you could just have broadband and pay line rental to another company, even Bt stopped that now.
You want our broadband then you pay us for line rental.

Only one of the larger ISPs i know of allows people to have broadband only and get their line rental elsewhere and that is Plusnet and that is part of BT.

I myself would prefer to pay less line rental and have no home phone service, but that is not possible on fixed lines.

This is one of the reason I went with who I am with, also because they offer a better service than I got with ADSL.
Nothing is stopping companies from building infrastructure. Even in cabled areas, another company can roll out a cable network.

As long as they apply for the right licences and can meet funds for liabilities, nothing is stopping them, Ofcom relaxed many regulations.

I agree with you on the wifi issue, it doesn't go far but when i've used it, I've sat outside a cafe, BT phonebox with wifi 5 metres away and was useful. Wifi enabled kiosks generally have a notice at the top. Wifi is not yet present in those eyesore old red kiosks, not sure about the hooded ones. BT make roaring trade from the modern kiosks that have advertising, £80 per week! Another private non-BT firm sells ad space for as much as £150 per week per week, its no wonder many are springing up in urban areas on top of the 19p per minute they make through 0800 calls(payphone access charge billed to the 0800 number owner,collected and paid out by BT Wholesale). Most Mercury kiosks were hooded and could not support advertising.
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Old 29-04-2013, 12:28
RileyM
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BT and O2 sign 10 year deal

Its a done deal with O2 and BT!

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/25...G_rollout.aspx
WOW! That was fast. I didn't expect things to be finalised so quickly!!

So, given that little article, would it be safe to assume that that is what BTs 4G spectrum will be used for? Even if atleast to share with O2 and itself?
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Old 29-04-2013, 14:07
japaul
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WOW! That was fast. I didn't expect things to be finalised so quickly!!

So, given that little article, would it be safe to assume that that is what BTs 4G spectrum will be used for? Even if atleast to share with O2 and itself?
Not for the moment - this is nothing to do with BT's 4G spectrum.
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Old 29-04-2013, 15:17
Everything Goes
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Not for the moment - this is nothing to do with BT's 4G spectrum.
Yes your right its about providing Backhaul for 4G

Ten year deal will upgrade O2's technology and provide it with backhaul
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Old 29-04-2013, 18:46
wavejockglw
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Not for the moment - this is nothing to do with BT's 4G spectrum.
Spot on. Sadly the usual suspects add 2 + 2 and make 5!
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