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Old 29-04-2013, 17:31
Karis
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People really just need to accept that other Posters have different opinions. As someone has said already, if we all agreed on everything it would be a boring forum.
This is really the crux of the issue. It's reason celebrities win most popular AND most irritating (or even more vacuously, best and worst dressed).
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Old 29-04-2013, 21:43
neutralned
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I tend not to notice these things as I'm watching and just get lost in it to be honest.

Not really relevant to a Doctor Who forum but I went to see Skyfall and thought it was great and then watched one of those "honest" trailers months later, that basically ripped it apart and pointed out all the plot holes and I felt a little foolish for not noticing a single one when I watched it!
You're very lucky. I'm one of these people who scream, "oh FFS stick together" at horror movies and, "why on earth would you do that?" at various other TV acts of stupidity. I can't watch Fawlty Towers because I just want to bang all their heads together and say, "Will you just all talk to one another clearly and sort your sh!t out." Even something like the Dr wandering off to leave Clara alone five minutes into Rings has me facepalming, I mean there's at least twenty countries on Earth where that would be a bad idea, never mind the first time you taken someone to an alien planet.

I think I'm overly tense
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Old 07-05-2013, 19:11
SilenceWillFall
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Another interesting article that adresses fans negativity, two parters, DW is too comple/childish arguments: http://www.kasterborous.com/2013/05/...om-negativity/
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Old 07-05-2013, 19:28
DICKENS99
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Another interesting article that adresses fans negativity, two parters, DW is too comple/childish arguments: http://www.kasterborous.com/2013/05/...om-negativity/
Well it's a piece informed by a declared opinion, viz "Please donít be negative for the sake of it. Doctor Who is still as good as it ever was".....some of us are negative because we believe that the show is not as good as it ever was, it's not a capricious discontent, it's not a stance adopted to be one of the cool kids or to deliberately provoke, it's an honest reaction to the episodes presented on screen.
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Old 07-05-2013, 19:43
Alrightmate
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And interesting article on the matter from DWTV here http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/doctor-hmph...vity-48421.htm that already got a mention in some other threads, but I think it deserves its own, because I feel that DS is even more guilty of what the article describes than DWTV is.
I don't think it's that interesting. It's just an article biased towards the idea of 'It's great, so don't criticise it'.

I'm sure that many viewers are optimistic about the show, but that shouldn't stop them from criticising an episode if they feel it merits some criticism.
Then there's the case that some viewers may only be critical of one or two episodes but love all the rest.
But it may be the case that over all episodes the series may in general average out more criticism than previous series.

That's just the way it is. Not every series can possibly be the best series of any show on TV ever. Comparatively some series of Doctor Who will be generally seen to be better or worse than other series.
If that's not the case then why even bother with polls? After all the purpose of the polls is to gauge how popular or not some episodes are compared with others.
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Old 07-05-2013, 19:46
Alrightmate
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So what is one to post if they genuinely didn't enjoy an episode??
Don't criticise anything because you must be seen to be optimistic.
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Old 07-05-2013, 19:55
Alrightmate
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Another interesting article that adresses fans negativity, two parters, DW is too comple/childish arguments: http://www.kasterborous.com/2013/05/...om-negativity/
Why does it need to be addressed at all?
That implies that negativity must be wrong. Especially when the writer suggests that fans criticise things 'for the sake of it'.

Criticism in itself isn't bad. In fact it can demonstrate that some people are actually wanting the show to be better. If no criticism was offered and people were expected to just remain 'positive' and say good things, I don't see how that would provide any stimulation to improve.
Criticism can help creativity. It can inform. It can offer pointers for improvement where blind adulation cannot.

In fact |I'd say that on this forum there is a lot of positivity and lots of post to enjoy for their positive outlook on things.
Criticism and praise are equally valid and I believe that it's healthier for both to exist.
I don't really see a case where 'negativity' needs to be addressed.
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Old 07-05-2013, 19:55
CAMERA OBSCURA
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double post
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Old 07-05-2013, 19:59
CAMERA OBSCURA
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Don't criticise anything because you must be seen to be optimistic.
Did you not get the memo Alrightmate ?



A strange influx of ahem... 'new' members from March/April are under the illusion they can dictate what can be criticised and what cannot. Almost as if they have been posting here for years isn't it.

It is perfectly acceptable for these 'new' members to critisise episodes/Doctors.

Threads can only be started by certain members but if a thread is started by someone, (God forbid a newbie!!!!) with an opinion they disagree with then that is a no no.

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Old 07-05-2013, 20:07
Alrightmate
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Did you not get the memo Alrightmate ?

Criticism will be frowned upon and mocked unless it is thought out and explained.

Thought out and explianed critism will be mocked.

A strange influx of 'new' members from March/April are under the illusion they can dictate what can be criticised and what cannot Almost as if they have been posting here for years is it.

It is perfectly excepable for these new mebers to critise episdoes that they want to.
It does seem as though the writer of the article has adopted the role of Doctor Who Thought Police.

You're right though, what would happen if they watched an episode that they themselves didn't like? Would they delude themselves that their own opinion is wrong? Would they post praise just for appearances sake just to show that they are 'optimistic'. Would that even serve any worthwhile purpose?

As I said before, I think with most people there will be one or two episodes a series which they thought were weak. If anybody hated most episodes they probably wouldn't watch it.
It's presumed that people fall into two clear groups. One group of people who praise everything, and the second group of people who criticise everything.
I think that's an unrealistic way of looking at things. Different people will like or dislike different episodes. Not everyone is the same and tastes will differ even within regular viewers of a show such as Doctor Who.
It's healthy for an internet forum to reflect these varieties of views. It makes for forum that's a damned sight more interesting to read, that's for sure.

In light of differing opinions, my opinion of negativity has more to do with threads or articles which complain about viewers offering criticism, or posts which simply say 'If you don't like it then why don't you stop watching it?'.
Criticism can be constructive. Telling people what they ought to think is stifling and repressive.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:13
SilenceWillFall
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Well, I never said that I completely agreed with either of those articles, I just found them an interesting read anf thought that since this is a discussion forum there might be an interesting read and might lead to an interesting discussion.

But since I'm so new here, I might be getting the purpose of these forums wrong?

Personally I do not have any trouble with criticism and I actually appreciate reading it when it's well thought out and well argumented because it gives me a new perspective even if I might disagree with it.

But I find there is a difference between well thought out negativity and the negativity of the kind where the people are saying that it sucks now because it's too childish/silly/whatever else that it is that it has already been before. And this doesn't only go for negative posts, but also for positive ones as well.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:18
Granny McSmith
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Did you not get the memo Alrightmate ?



A strange influx of ahem... 'new' members from March/April are under the illusion they can dictate what can be criticised and what cannot. Almost as if they have been posting here for years isn't it.

It is perfectly acceptable for these 'new' members to critisise episodes/Doctors.

Threads can only be started by certain members but if a thread is started by someone, (God forbid a newbie!!!!) with an opinion they disagree with then that is a no no.

I am at a loss to understand what difference it makes if a FM has joined 10 minutes ago or 900 years ago?

It's the quality of posting which is important.

And everyone has the right to have their say, and to disagree with other people's posts.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:24
Alrightmate
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Well, I never said that I completely agreed with either of those articles, I just found them an interesting read anf thought that since this is a discussion forum there might be an interesting read and might lead to an interesting discussion.

But since I'm so new here, I might be getting the purpose of these forums wrong?

Personally I do not have any trouble with criticism and I actually appreciate reading it when it's well thought out and well argumented because it gives me a new perspective even if I might disagree with it.

But I find there is a difference between well thought out negativity and the negativity of the kind where the people are saying that it sucks now because it's too childish/silly/whatever else that it is that it has already been before. And this doesn't only go for negative posts, but also for positive ones as well.
Okay SilenceWillFall, I apologise if I came across as harsh to you.
I was posting more in response to the article itself, not meaning to have a go at your good self. You haven't done anything wrong.

I agree with you that some negativity can be pointless and silly. In those cases I just ignore the occasional post like that and move on. I think on the balance of things general criticism is not really something which need to be addressed, and that compared to a few years ago the tone of the forum right now seems fine. As long as people get on, which for the most part on here they do now. I don't see a problem. Seems much more friendlier on here than a few years ago.

As you're new here you're in luck, because it's like Disneyland on here compared to what it was like in the RTD era of Who.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:27
CAMERA OBSCURA
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Granny McSmith
I am at a loss to understand what difference it makes if a FM has joined 10 minutes ago or 900 years ago?
Just saying it seems a bit of a coincidence.

It's the quality of posting which is important.
Well no it isn't actually. If a poster wants to post 'I loved this episode' or 'This episode sucked' so what? There are plenty of posters that go into detail doesn't mean everyone has to. There will be posters that are just casual pop in and post and there will be the more serious fan that likes to go into detail.

And everyone has the right to have their say, and to disagree with other people's posts.
Not the feeling of this Who forum of late if truth be told.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:30
mikey1980
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There does seem to be a prevalent self-righteous attitude from some people on these forums at the moment. Any overly negative or even wholly negative opinions are responded to with righteous indignation and the use of a word which is bandied about a lot at the moment - "entitlement".

Opinions will always vary as to what is good and what is bad. I love Jon Pertwee's era and I loved Chris Eccleston's doctor - but I'm aware that there are plenty who disagree with me, which is fine. I like Matt Smith, but on the whole I haven't enjoyed the Moffat era and am genuinely concerned by the direction of the series on and off-screen. I also have a clear idea of what I'd like to see in the 50th anniversary special. Expressing my opinion and bouncing off the opinions and ideas of others isn't entitlement.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:32
Tassium
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Okily-dokily fellow Whovians, just relax and let the negativity removal hooks do their work.

Look at these Dr Who fans, they just love the show!

http://i.imgur.com/j5G26ne.jpg
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:34
TheSilentFez
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I don't think it's that interesting. It's just an article biased towards the idea of 'It's great, so don't criticise it'.

I'm sure that many viewers are optimistic about the show, but that shouldn't stop them from criticising an episode if they feel it merits some criticism.
Then there's the case that some viewers may only be critical of one or two episodes but love all the rest.
But it may be the case that over all episodes the series may in general average out more criticism than previous series.

That's just the way it is. Not every series can possibly be the best series of any show on TV ever. Comparatively some series of Doctor Who will be generally seen to be better or worse than other series.
If that's not the case then why even bother with polls? After all the purpose of the polls is to gauge how popular or not some episodes are compared with others.
Criticism is fine. No-one has any problem with criticism, but it's this "Doctor Who is crap now!", "Doctor Who must be cancelled!", "Steven Moffat is destroying the show!", "The production team need to be fired!" sort of attitude which annoys me. I've seen valid ciriticism in places, but equally I have seen plenty of angry people spouting this sort of stuff everywhere.
Some people may find that the show no longer appeals to them in the way that it once did. That's fair enough, but it doesn't mean the show has suddenly become crap or the writers are ruining the show- it simply means that the show no longer appeals to you any more. But the show changes often; that's probably why it has lasted so long, so maybe in a few year's time things may start to get better again.

What I really can't stand is the likes of this: I saw someone the other day on Facebook reply to someone who claimed that they were generally happy with any episode of Doctor Who by angrily shouting something along the lines of "It's morons like you who will lap anything up who are the reason that the show has drastically dropped in quality."

There is absolutely no need to take your current dislike or the show and turn it into a personal attack. It's ridiculous in the extreme and completely unfounded.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:38
Granny McSmith
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Just saying it seems a bit of a coincidence.



Well no it isn't actually. If a poster wants to post 'I loved This episode' or 'This episode sucked' so what? There are plenty of posters that go into detail doesn't mean everyone has to. There will be posters that are just casual pop in and post and there will be the more serious fan that likes to go into detail.



Not the feeling of this Who forum of late if truth be told.
I still don't get the point about "new" posters. Sorry, but some of the most irritating ones (imo ) have been here for years.

(Not you of course, CAMERA ).

And I think it does make a difference if someone just says "this episode sucked" as opposed to giving an interesting reason as to why they think this. Of course, someone can just say it sucked, but it seems a bit pointless to come on a discussion board just to say that. It's certainly not interesting to read.

The feeling on this forum of late is that it has lots of people starting lots of threads saying not very much and saying it badly. Maybe it was always thus, and I have forgotten.

Of course, they are at liberty to do so, but it is a bit trying when you click on thread after thread all of which are variants of "Doctor Who sucks".

Apart from these threads, the forum seems much as usual to me.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:43
Tassium
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...
...

What I really can't stand is the likes of this: I saw someone the other day on Facebook reply to someone who claimed that they were generally happy with any episode of Doctor Who by angrily shouting something along the lines of "It's morons like you who will lap anything up who are the reason that the show has drastically dropped in quality."

There is absolutely no need to take your current dislike or the show and turn it into a personal attack. It's ridiculous in the extreme and completely unfounded.
That seems to me to be incredibly rare, I have never seen it.

What I keep seeing is the opposite where some fans are rude and dismissive towards people who are unhappy will the recent episodes.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:46
SilenceWillFall
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Okay SilenceWillFall, I apologise if I came across as harsh to you.
I was posting more in response to the article itself, not meaning to have a go at your good self. You haven't done anything wrong.

I agree with you that some negativity can be pointless and silly. In those cases I just ignore the occasional post like that and move on. I think on the balance of things general criticism is not really something which need to be addressed, and that compared to a few years ago the tone of the forum right now seems fine. As long as people get on, which for the most part on here they do now. I don't see a problem. Seems much more friendlier on here than a few years ago.

As you're new here you're in luck, because it's like Disneyland on here compared to what it was like in the RTD era of Who.
No worries, might be my fault for not completely explaining my view point.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion (whatever their opinion might be), but I think I'm just as entitled to voice my disagreement with those opinions and other posters are just as entitled to disagree with my disagreement about the other's opinion. (Okay, that sentence got away from me )

Well, actually having heard/read some crticism of RTD from a certain part of the fanbase I can sort of imagine (I mean I'm by no means his biggest fan, but some people certainly seem to feel very passionate about him, not in a good way)

On a different note a while ago I looked at some older threads on here from around the time when Matt Smith was announced as the Doctor and they are a pretty hilarious read.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:48
WelshNige
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What I keep seeing is the opposite where some fans are rude and dismissive towards people who are unhappy will the recent episodes.
I agree, how many times have we seen posters who state they didn't understand something being told they weren't paying attention or, even worse, that they are not intelligent enough to understand what went on.

Another thing I find extremely hypocritical is when someone dismisses a negative post and tries to counteract the criticism by being negative about RTD's era.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:53
Moboloco
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There does seem to be a prevalent self-righteous attitude from some people on these forums at the moment. Any overly negative or even wholly negative opinions are responded to with righteous indignation and the use of a word which is bandied about a lot at the moment - "entitlement".

Opinions will always vary as to what is good and what is bad. I love Jon Pertwee's era and I loved Chris Eccleston's doctor - but I'm aware that there are plenty who disagree with me, which is fine. I like Matt Smith, but on the whole I haven't enjoyed the Moffat era and am genuinely concerned by the direction of the series on and off-screen. I also have a clear idea of what I'd like to see in the 50th anniversary special. Expressing my opinion and bouncing off the opinions and ideas of others isn't entitlement.
Totally agree.

The feeling I sometimes get on here is that certain forum members that have been here & contributing a fair while won't have a bad word said about the show... any post is immediately shot down with both harsh criticism questioning the poster rather than content of their post & they are replied to in a harsh/unfriendly manner. I presume they think that replying to a person in such a manner will deter them from replying... which is a shame.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:55
CAMERA OBSCURA
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And I think it does make a difference if someone just says "this episode sucked" as opposed to giving an interesting reason as to why they think this. Of course, someone can just say it sucked, but it seems a bit pointless to come on a discussion board just to say that. it's certainly not interesting to read.
I agree it isn't interesting just to post a one line criticism but the internet has been around for a long time now, I'm not sure why people still respond to or are surprised by these posts.

Whilst some maybe baiting I dare say some are just genuine quick fire posts be it positive or negative.

The feeling on this forum of late is that it has lots of people starting lots of threads saying not very much and saying it badly. maybe it was always thus, and I have forgotten.
The proof is in the pudding Granny. Take a look at the pages of this forum how many negative threads are there? How many actual Doctor Who Sucks threads are there.
I certainly wouldn't describe it as lots, in fact I'd be hard pushed to describe it as a few.

What I think is happening is a few posters that read other forums, other sites and take the criticism they see there and transfer their frustration to any and every person with a criticism on this forum.


Of course, they are at liberty to do so, but it is a bit trying when you click on thread after thread all of which are variants of "Doctor Who sucks".
There is a thread, for example asking for posters opinions on Clara, so of course there will be different opinions positive and negative.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:56
SilenceWillFall
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I agree, how many times have we seen posters who state they didn't understand something being told they weren't paying attention or, even worse, that they are not intelligent enough to understand what went on.

Another thing I find extremely hypocritical is when someone dismisses a negative post and tries to counteract the criticism by being negative about RTD's era.
Maybe it might be a good idea to have one thread where everyone could ask if they missed or didn't understand something? Sometimes it does happen to everyone that they miss something even if they might have been paying enough attention.

I personally dislike when in reaction to a poster who voices their dislike of current Who someone asks them whether they outgrew it or something similar.

As for countering a negative post with the RTD criticism, I think there is a difference between the kind of posts that basically counters "Moffat sucks" with "RTD sucked" and between the posts that point out that the things that is being criticized and attributed solely to Moffat was something that actually already happened on the show under RTD.
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Old 07-05-2013, 21:01
kyllerbuzcut
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Criticism is fine. No-one has any problem with criticism, but it's this "Doctor Who is crap now!", "Doctor Who must be cancelled!", "Steven Moffat is destroying the show!", "The production team need to be fired!" sort of attitude which annoys me. I've seen valid ciriticism in places, but equally I have seen plenty of angry people spouting this sort of stuff everywhere.
Some people may find that the show no longer appeals to them in the way that it once did. That's fair enough, but it doesn't mean the show has suddenly become crap or the writers are ruining the show- it simply means that the show no longer appeals to you any more. But the show changes often; that's probably why it has lasted so long, so maybe in a few year's time things may start to get better again.

What I really can't stand is the likes of this: I saw someone the other day on Facebook reply to someone who claimed that they were generally happy with any episode of Doctor Who by angrily shouting something along the lines of "It's morons like you who will lap anything up who are the reason that the show has drastically dropped in quality."

There is absolutely no need to take your current dislike or the show and turn it into a personal attack. It's ridiculous in the extreme and completely unfounded.

^ +1million

It's the same both ways.

People are getting hammered for saying they liked the episode/series. It's been like it is a crime to have enjoyed it. The cool thing to do is just moan about stuff being rubbish when you obviously didn't even watch it. It's like this years latest fun prank to do.

On the swing though, the backlash from that has resulted in a lot of people jumping on those saying they didn't enjoy that one so much. There are going to be people not liking episodes. That's fair enough, because mostly they didn't like it because they thought plot A didn't work so well, or actor B wasn't convincing and broke the whole mood, or there was some sort of stupid thing that happened they didn't like....

Unfortunately the 'morons' (as someone somewhere called those who blindly say they like the show) live on both side of the fence (sometimes at the same time- obvious wind up merchants). There does seem from my point of view a lot more people just saying how crap the show as a whole is for no reason. People with real views are getting caught in the middle. It's ok to like an episode and it's also ok to not like it. the best thing to do might be just try to ignore the obvious morons who are just on the wind up to make fans argue with each other,
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