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Copying NTSC VHS to dvd?


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Old 28-04-2013, 20:57
CherylFan
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OK, so my Sony VCR will replay an NTSC tape and it`s connected via Scart to my Panasonic dvd/hd recorder, which I`ve set to NTSC mode. The tape plays but I get no picture. (Tv also NTSC compatible.) What am I doing wrong?!
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Old 28-04-2013, 21:01
chrisjr
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Set the DVD back to PAL and see if that works. Always possible the VCR is converting to PAL.

Alternatively. The VCR will almost certainly only output Composite Video. If the DVD is set to RGB in then it won't get a picture, only the audio. So make sure the DVD input is set to Composite. (may be called CVBS)
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Old 28-04-2013, 21:12
CherylFan
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Thank you - afraid that didn`t work either - still the dreaded blue screen "no signal" on tv...!
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Old 28-04-2013, 21:23
Simon Rodgers
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From what I gather, media equipment in the UK may be NTSC compatible but only for using tapes from outside the EU.

Maybe if you play the NTSC tape but only record in PAL. Set everything to PAL except the output device playing the tape. Is that any help?

Alternatively you could cheat a little and get a PC with a TV card, play your tape through an NTSC tape through the TV card and record it there, then burn it to DVD. As far as the PC is concerned, the video file will just be a load of 0s and 1s and it will not care too much about PAL or NTSC tape input
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Old 28-04-2013, 22:02
CherylFan
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DVD recorder set to PAL or NTSC seems to make no difference, sadly. Didn`t really want to go to the trouble or cost of buying more gadgets for the pc as it doesn`t seem worth it for one video but I may have no choice!
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Old 28-04-2013, 22:18
CherylFan
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Oh dear. A bit of googling suggests that this is an impossible task without lots of expensive technology as (if I get it right) the vhs is putting out the signal in PAL60 rather than true NTSC and my dvd can`t record it....
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Old 28-04-2013, 22:45
AidanLunn
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Could you give us the model numbers of all three items concerned? That way we can check if my NTSC conversion, the items mean either PAL 60 or NTSC 4.43. I think there are items with a mix of both here.
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Old 29-04-2013, 01:06
Simon Rodgers
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DVD recorder set to PAL or NTSC seems to make no difference, sadly. Didn`t really want to go to the trouble or cost of buying more gadgets for the pc as it doesn`t seem worth it for one video but I may have no choice!
Does your PC have a TV card? If so you can digitally rip it to a computer video file (which the computer would consider a sa load of 0s and 1s), then you can rip it to vob files for DVD burning.

If you have proper DVD software you can add more professional touches.

If in doubt, there are professional companies who can do this thing for you.
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Old 29-04-2013, 07:39
CherylFan
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Could you give us the model numbers of all three items concerned? That way we can check if my NTSC conversion, the items mean either PAL 60 or NTSC 4.43. I think there are items with a mix of both here.
Hi -

VCR - Sony SLV-SE740
DVD - Panasonic DMR-EH50
TV - Bush LT24M3

Thanks to all contributors for your wise word!
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Old 29-04-2013, 08:51
Nigel Goodwin
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It most probably isn't possible with the recorder you have, it's not designed for such purposes.

However, there were a very small number of standards converting VCR's back in the day - I believe one of the best was by Panasonic?, so that would convert the NTSC tape to a proper UK PAL signal, so you could record it.

Finding one could be difficult though?, and using a PC could be a much easier option.
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Old 29-04-2013, 13:45
CherylFan
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Thank you. How much should I not pay less than for a tv card for the pc?
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Old 29-04-2013, 19:59
Kodaz
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Does your PC have a TV card? If so you can digitally rip it to a computer video file.
Will the TV card accept the "PAL 60" output from a British video recorder playing back an American tape, though?

Remember, it's not going to output NTSC, it's going to output PAL 60.
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Old 29-04-2013, 21:11
Orbitalzone
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Will the TV card accept the "PAL 60" output from a British video recorder playing back an American tape, though?

Remember, it's not going to output NTSC, it's going to output PAL 60.
That's very true... when I tried to copy an NTSC VHS tape onto my DVD recorder it refused unsurprisingly to accept the signal (it was a home video so no macrovision issues) This was using a Panasonic VHS deck and DVD recorder. Both units only NTSC playback capable as PAL60 (I think the DVD could record NTSCV 3.58 if I recall)

When I connected the VHS recorder to my video input on my PC (I had an ATI all in wonder graphics card with video in/video out) it still refused to accept the PAL 60 hybrid signal.

Only when I used my Thomson VHS recorder that had a true NTSC output capability did my PC input accept the signal as true NTSC. Once capture I burnt to DVD at NTSC as any DVD can play those generally speaking.

So, basically most european VHS recorder/players generally output PAL60 and not true NTSC. Most DVD recorders will only accept PAL or NTSC but not PAL60 hybrid and I suspect the same is for most PC capture devices.
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Old 29-04-2013, 21:26
CherylFan
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Hm, kind of doesn`t bode well that. Nor the 40 quotation I had earlier today from a mail order transer business!!
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Old 29-04-2013, 21:39
Orbitalzone
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Without knowing what the tape is and how valuable it is to you it's hard to say what it's worth spending to achieve. If it's a one off then paying a company to do it is the way to go, assuming it's non copyright (a business shouldn't be offering to copy/transfer copyright material)
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Old 30-04-2013, 13:27
35321
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When I connected the VHS recorder to my video input on my PC (I had an ATI all in wonder graphics card with video in/video out) it still refused to accept the PAL 60 hybrid signal.

Only when I used my Thomson VHS recorder that had a true NTSC output capability did my PC input accept the signal as true NTSC. Once capture I burnt to DVD at NTSC as any DVD can play those generally speaking.
Surprising that it would not at least make a black-and-white recording of PAL60 (if it can accept 525line-NTSC). PAL 60 is still going to be 525 lines/ 60Hz field, the difference is only the colour encoding.

By comparison If you tried to play a SECAM (French etc) VHS tape on a UK PAL VCR (only difference is the colour encoding), you could watch a black and white picture, I am not aware of any UK PAL-only VCRs designed to mute playback of SECAM tapes.
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Old 30-04-2013, 18:57
Orbitalzone
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Surprising that it would not at least make a black-and-white recording of PAL60 (if it can accept 525line-NTSC). PAL 60 is still going to be 525 lines/ 60Hz field, the difference is only the colour encoding.

By comparison If you tried to play a SECAM (French etc) VHS tape on a UK PAL VCR (only difference is the colour encoding), you could watch a black and white picture, I am not aware of any UK PAL-only VCRs designed to mute playback of SECAM tapes.
Well to be honest it was a good few years ago now, I think that it just wouldn't sync properly and the DVD and PC capture wouldn't work in any satisfactory way.

Oddly enough the Thomson VHS recorder was their high spec model which had a really weird onscreen display system that output RGB graphics over composite video so it only really worked on modern (CRT) TV's it had no RF modulator output either - this was a model from the mid 1990's. It seemed to have PAL and SECAM abilities and could output true NTSC (or PAL60) - it's in my loft in a box complete with it's novel Phillip Stark designed rollerball remote control


Anyway I digress......
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Old 30-04-2013, 19:06
CherylFan
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If I were to feed the vcr output into the dvd via the 3 phono sockets (rather than scart) is it possible that that might work? The tape in question is a 1997 broadcast of a Wagner opera taped from Brazilian TV which as I`m a collector does have some value. And is unlikely to be replaceable on any other format (eg dvd)!
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Old 30-04-2013, 19:14
Nigel Goodwin
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If I were to feed the vcr output into the dvd via the 3 phono sockets (rather than scart) is it possible that that might work?
No, it's exactly the same signal.
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Old 30-04-2013, 20:33
jjne
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Years ago I bought a refurbished JVC cheapo VCR direct from the States for this very task. (Think it was just a cheap and fairly nasty Funai thing but it did the job -- Funai made some good VCRs in the 1990s but by around 2005 they were horrible).

I think I paid around 20 delivered for it, and it was pretty much like new. Maybe an option?
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Old 30-04-2013, 22:10
Simon Rodgers
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Will the TV card accept the "PAL 60" output from a British video recorder playing back an American tape, though?

Remember, it's not going to output NTSC, it's going to output PAL 60.
What I'm saying is, if you get an NTSC compatible player in the UK, the output will be the same as a PAL tape in the respect that UK sets will be able to display it, etc. Like a black box type exercise. You start with an NTSC tape and a viewable film at the end. What happens in-between, is not really important.

Take THAT output and run it through a TV card and record off that. Then the computer will convert the tape contents into a load of 0s and 1s, which can then be used to burn a DVD with the right programme.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:03
Chris Frost
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If I were to feed the vcr output into the dvd via the 3 phono sockets (rather than scart) is it possible that that might work? The tape in question is a 1997 broadcast of a Wagner opera taped from Brazilian TV which as I`m a collector does have some value. And is unlikely to be replaceable on any other format (eg dvd)!
I'm sitting here reading this thread and shaking my head in wonder. How long will it take before someone sees the light and goes "Hey, maybe we should just spend what it costs to get it done right"?

1) The value of the tape is inestimable. It's a rare recording and unlikely to appear on DVD or Blu-ray. Is 40 quid really too much to spend???

2) The domestic gear outputting PAL60 works for viewing on a TV works because the TV is engineered to accept a non-standard signal: Pal and 60Hz are not natural bed fellows. That flexibility doesn't apply to a recorder. They need a stable sync signal and for the signal to conform to specific standards.

The only exception when it comes to VCRs doing standards conversion are the World Standard multi-format VCRs that were available from the early '90s. They digitised the signal and then re-encoded in a new frame rate and colour standard. They weren't without issues of their own though. Frame dropping was common. 60 frames a second doesn't go in to a 50 frames a second system without something giving.

All of the above is by-the-by though. The cost of buying the right gear even second-hand is way way more than the 40 quid quote for standards conversion. Pursuing the other solution of trying to make a recording from PAL60 is going to work out just as- or more- expensive as a pro conversion and with poorer results. How long is it going to take someone bashing their head against a brick wall to realise this?

I'm all for saving a few quid. But there comes a point where common sense must prevail.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:07
unique
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If I were to feed the vcr output into the dvd via the 3 phono sockets (rather than scart) is it possible that that might work? The tape in question is a 1997 broadcast of a Wagner opera taped from Brazilian TV which as I`m a collector does have some value. And is unlikely to be replaceable on any other format (eg dvd)!
instead of looking to convert that tape, look to obtain that recording on dvd instead. there are websites that let you download stuff legally and otherwise, and websites where people sell stuff in an online auction. there are other sites like forums that specialise in all sorts of stuff where you can post a request for the item and see if someone has it

two ways to swing a cat. there are a few things i never bothered capping as i found other people had done the same thing first
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:35
35321
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Pal and 60Hz are not natural bed fellows.
PAL is used with 60Hz-525 lines for analogue broadcast TV in Brazil:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL-M

the difference with PAL60 is that the colour subcarrier is at 3.58 MHz (approx) rather than the 4.43 MHz approx of PAL 60 (and 625 line PAL)

However Brazil VCRs use NTSC (converting their 60Hz PAL to/from NTSC)
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:51
35321
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regarding DVD recorders accepting 'PAL60' input - a philips DVD recorder I used in the past - the DVDR3480 could certainly do so -

(this one http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/d/d...05_pss_eng.pdf)

It recorded a PAL60 signal from a 'NTSC playback' PAL VCR OK - The DVD gets recorded as a 'PAL' DVD, there did not appear to be any option of recording a 'NTSC' DVD from a PAL60 input, which if your equipment can handle it, would give better results (smooth movement) as is avoids the line/field conversion from the original.
BTW, this DVD recorder would on playback of a (non-region locked) NTSC DVD - output a converted 50Hz PAL picture, there was no option in the menus either of outputing the native format which gives better results (if your TV can handle it OK).

One word of warning about this DVD recorder - do not switch between 50Hz/60Hz picture formats from the source after you have selected the input (even when not recording!) - I found it causes the recorder to crash - and you have to switch off and on at the mains to get it working again. This would easily happen with a 'NTSC playback' PAL VCR which is initially outputting a regular 50Hz PAL signal before you Play the NTSC tape.
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