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The Russian cult of WWII


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Old 08-05-2013, 13:29
levaniX
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ere are my first pictures and videos, depicting the scale of celebration

Most people don't wear St.George Ribbon, but just put them on their cars, which I think is quite silly.
Фотографии в альбоме «May 8» Levan Bibilashvili на Яндекс.Фотках

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5636/...2d62c_orig.jpg

You could see 3 flags on facades of all public buildings
Including Victory Flag/Banner, which was hung over Berlin.
http://files.adme.ru/files/comment/p...339006975.jpeg
Фотографии в альбоме «May 8» Levan Bibilashvili на Яндекс.Фотках

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5630/...a3ad0_orig.jpg

[more]
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5644/...4810b_orig.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5645/...37ae4_orig.jpg
Other decorations(including spinning Victory medal)
Фотографии в альбоме «May 8» Levan Bibilashvili на Яндекс.Фотках

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6435/...658e0_orig.jpg

[more]
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6432/...3d670_orig.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5625/...e0cdb_orig.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5639/...fe578_orig.jpg

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Kiys6rigI

P.S Commies still praise Stalin, and respect him as an only person who brought peace to all the world
Фотографии в альбоме «May 8» Levan Bibilashvili на Яндекс.Фотках

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5629/...ac655_orig.jpg
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Old 08-05-2013, 19:19
Bungitin
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ere are my first pictures and videos, depicting the scale of celebration

Most people don't wear St.George Ribbon, but just put them on their cars, which I think is quite silly.
Фотографии в альбоме «May 8» Levan Bibilashvili на Яндекс.Фотках

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5636/...2d62c_orig.jpg

You could see 3 flags on facades of all public buildings
Including Victory Flag/Banner, which was hung over Berlin.
http://files.adme.ru/files/comment/p...339006975.jpeg
Фотографии в альбоме «May 8» Levan Bibilashvili на Яндекс.Фотках

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5630/...a3ad0_orig.jpg

[more]
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5644/...4810b_orig.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5645/...37ae4_orig.jpg
Other decorations(including spinning Victory medal)
Фотографии в альбоме «May 8» Levan Bibilashvili на Яндекс.Фотках

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6435/...658e0_orig.jpg

[more]
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6432/...3d670_orig.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5625/...e0cdb_orig.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5639/...fe578_orig.jpg

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Kiys6rigI

P.S Commies still praise Stalin, and respect him as an only person who brought peace to all the world
Фотографии в альбоме «May 8» Levan Bibilashvili на Яндекс.Фотках

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5629/...ac655_orig.jpg

Bought peace to the world? His peace and a place as a mass murderer. He tried to justify himself as 'Ivan the Terrible', being cruel to save his country.
How come no-one knew Stalin was dead for while because of strict instructions of 'do not disturb' or else?
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Old 08-05-2013, 20:04
KJ44
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ere are my first pictures and videos, depicting the scale of celebration
Interesting, and thanks for posting.

Commies still praise Stalin
Yes, they do (see below)

Bought peace to the world? His peace and a place as a mass murderer. He tried to justify himself as 'Ivan the Terrible', being cruel to save his country.
How come no-one knew Stalin was dead for while because of strict instructions of 'do not disturb' or else?
Instead of doubting what levaniX reports, we have to ask why "commies" praise Stalin.

I read a rather highbrow French book once. In French because I'm that poncy

French
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apr%C3%A8s_l'empire
English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_t...American_Order

One of the things I learned, is that anthropologically, Russians give all their inherited property to the eldest son, and everyone else is therefore dependent. This facilitates an attachment to "strong leaders" ... basically, if you owe your livng to one man in your family, you want him to be rock-hard, hence Stalin and dare I say so Putin.

In the West, we think differently, our concept of freedom assumes that all children share equally in an inheritance, hence we are effectively free agents.

Without going all Trotsky on "permanent revolution" Russia went from a barely industrial almost feudal society to one which attempted, and failed, to be socialist. It never went through the phase we know, of grantiing basic human rights, until it attempted socialism, and the opportunity was lost very early on.
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Old 08-05-2013, 20:22
phylo_roadking
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In the West, we think differently, our concept of freedom assumes that all children share equally in an inheritance, hence we are effectively free agents.
Ah - but does it, really??? After all...wasn't that one of the main planks in the old anti-Catholic Penal laws???
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Old 08-05-2013, 20:33
KJ44
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Ah - but does it, really??? After all...wasn't that one of the main planks in the old anti-Catholic Penal laws???
You and your bloody history books.

I'm not going to Google (much) but aren't you making my point? I'm not defending capitalism or Protestantism, but is it not fair to say they have shaped the Western mindset differently to the Russian one?

I quite like the anthropological explanation, sure it's the French trying to explain their "je ne sais quoi" superiority, but it does (at first sight) explain why Russians think as they do and why we find their worldview to be a tad alien.
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Old 08-05-2013, 20:35
KJ44
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Nothing to do with the topic, and inflammatory, but the title is relevant:

http://www.revolutionsf.com/fiction/weseethings/01.html
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Old 08-05-2013, 21:41
phylo_roadking
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Well, the Russian mindset is more to do with the aftermath of Genghis Khan IIRC, and how the invaders imposed a rigid system of control on the locals....or by proxy through local hetmen. They had strong leaders almost by default because serfdom survived so long in the Russias, complete with movement control etc. - people literally bound to their locales.
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Old 08-05-2013, 22:12
KJ44
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Well, the Russian mindset is more to do with the aftermath of Genghis Khan IIRC, and how the invaders imposed a rigid system of control on the locals....or by proxy through local hetmen. They had strong leaders almost by default because serfdom survived so long in the Russias, complete with movement control etc. - people literally bound to their locales.
I also like that Marxist argument ... that people are shaped by the means of production, by economics ... the anthropological approach appeals to me (a) because kneejerk reactions to Marxism as an explanation obscure and stifle the debate so phrasing things differently gets past that roadblock and (b) I think evolutionary biology is fundamental.
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Old 08-05-2013, 22:21
swingaleg
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I also like that Marxist argument ... that people are shaped by the means of production, by economics ... the anthropological approach appeals to me (a) because kneejerk reactions to Marxism as an explanation obscure and stifle the debate so phrasing things differently gets past that roadblock and (b) I think evolutionary biology is fundamental.
Surely evolutionary biology deals with things that happen over timescales of hundreds of thousands of years...............I find it difficult to see how you could apply that to political developments measured in decades.................
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Old 08-05-2013, 22:32
phylo_roadking
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I also like that Marxist argument ... that people are shaped by the means of production, by economics ... the anthropological approach appeals to me (a) because kneejerk reactions to Marxism as an explanation obscure and stifle the debate so phrasing things differently gets past that roadblock and (b) I think evolutionary biology is fundamental.
..but remembering that Marx wrote for post-Industrial Revolution Britain....not Tsarist Russia!

Because although applied to Russia...Russia's economy was stil 99% agricutural as of 1917...
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:57
levaniX
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stay tuned for a great coverage of the holiday. Victory parade is beginning, watch on RT website
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:18
Ænima
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I saw a documentary that said, after WWII ended, the Russians that were in Germany began raping pretty much every woman and child in sight. Though rape occured throughout the war, and by other countries, it was more systematic with the Russian army. They saw the scared and in many cases starving women of Germany as the spoils of war. In some cases, they would in fact starve areas to force women to them so they could be raped, and even young girls didn't escape. Apparently, German women hearing this were throwing themselves at any German, unmarried man they could find in the hope of escaping the abuse, but the war left certain areas seriously short of men. Not a great time in a lot of countries histories, not just Germany
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:15
levaniX
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The essential thing is that local customs and traditions should be respected, although they may have been ridiculous for someone. Mixture of western attitudes and national ones should remain.
Western way of life shouldn't be forced.

Happy Victory Day, everyone!
(previous post was a response, so this is the last separate post by me before someone replies there)

Here's the first recording, i made
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTITi...ature=youtu.be
Victory Parade(which usually repeats itself over and over again) has been ended.
Here's the ending sequence
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:24
levaniX
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^^
Thank you, jersey. I meant competition in a good way.

Here are some interesting shots from the Victory Parade...
http://s3.amazonaws.com/tj_articles/9-may-9.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/tj_articles/9-may-20.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/tj_articles/9-may-10.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/tj_articles/9-may-12.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/tj_articles/9-may-18.jpg
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:58
Bungitin
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Cheer up, the Russians have got next years parade to look forward to. It used to be a great nation.

As a Russian going against the trend, LevaniX 50-60 years ago might have been detained at someones pleasure or getting discounted salt from a mine. Thanks for your thoughts.

As for Russian 'rape and plunder' following Russian occupation, it is well printed over here and ignored in Russian texts, where they 'liberated the working masses' and got them to work for Russia instead. Might have a propaganda aspect although it was a common outcome through the ages.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:37
levaniX
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Well. here is my recording of russian tv programming today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjhOL...=youtube_gdata
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:50
Bungitin
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Well. here is my recording of russian tv programming today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjhOL...=youtube_gdata

I sometimes watch the RT tv world channel (and Fox for balance) for different perspectives of world news.
RT has some rather delightful women to gloss over the news cracks.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:50
RecordPlayer
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I saw a documentary that said, after WWII ended, the Russians that were in Germany began raping pretty much every woman and child in sight. Though rape occured throughout the war, and by other countries, it was more systematic with the Russian army. They saw the scared and in many cases starving women of Germany as the spoils of war. In some cases, they would in fact starve areas to force women to them so they could be raped, and even young girls didn't escape. Apparently, German women hearing this were throwing themselves at any German, unmarried man they could find in the hope of escaping the abuse, but the war left certain areas seriously short of men. Not a great time in a lot of countries histories, not just Germany
This is very well described in the book A Woman in Berlin. It's worth a read.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:27
levaniX
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Celebration in London (i'm sorry for bumping)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJ0O7BHCQAAvpeD.jpg
"Moscow remembers" campaign(where you could speak up about your vets on public)
http://proxy.storify.com/?url=http%3...resize=1&w=490
Gorky Park
http://proxy.storify.com/?url=http%3...resize=1&w=490
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:30
phylo_roadking
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To be fair - there are some concerns over A Woman In Berlin being used as a definitive source...from Wiki...

In September 2003 (when Hillers' identity was first revealed), requests for access to the original diaries was not granted, and Christian Esch writing in the Berliner Zeitung stated that if the work was to be fully accepted as an authentic account this was necessary, because as he pointed out the text itself indicates that changes were made between the initial handwritten diaries and the typed manuscript which was then translated into English and published for the first time nearly a decade after the events, and that there are minor discrepancies between editions.

Subsequently, Walter Kempowski examined the notes on behalf of the publishing house and stated that it was a genuine diary Hillers kept at the time, though the typescript and the published book contain material not in the diary.
But there are plenty of other anecdotal accounts of rape and mass rape from the moment the Soviets entered German territory...
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:30
levaniX
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Historic pic
Zhukov and Monty
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6430/..._9590fc_XL.jpg
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:55
Bungitin
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I saw a documentary that said, after WWII ended, the Russians that were in Germany began raping pretty much every woman and child in sight. Though rape occured throughout the war, and by other countries, it was more systematic with the Russian army. They saw the scared and in many cases starving women of Germany as the spoils of war. In some cases, they would in fact starve areas to force women to them so they could be raped, and even young girls didn't escape. Apparently, German women hearing this were throwing themselves at any German, unmarried man they could find in the hope of escaping the abuse, but the war left certain areas seriously short of men. Not a great time in a lot of countries histories, not just Germany
A lot of teenagers were impressed into the Hitler youth and there was the 'peoples' army to resist the allies as well. Following the war there was a huge de-nazification push which presumably left a hefty male shortage until they returned, not sure what the practice was in Russian occupied territory except possibly more use of camps and turning them communists. Once a certified communist was then let go or paroled.
Hard life in Germany for a while afterwards, women had to survive, no work, smashed economy, occupying troops.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:02
RecordPlayer
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To be fair - there are some concerns over A Woman In Berlin being used as a definitive source...from Wiki...



But there are plenty of other anecdotal accounts of rape and mass rape from the moment the Soviets entered German territory...
The book gives an overall idea about the situation.

The book was denounced and virtually banned upon its publication in Germany in 1959, five years after its appearance in an English translation, and its author, known only as "Anonyma," vowed it would only be republished after her death. The new edition, which became an international success, came out in 2001.

Anonyma was one of the few German women to report on the rapes and the ways in which the women succeeded in surviving, often by aligning themselves sexually with a "protector." Anonyma's honesty earned her a special opprobrium in her homeland. (One German writer denounced her for "besmirching the honor of German women.")
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:10
phylo_roadking
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Following the war there was a huge de-nazification push which presumably left a hefty male shortage until they returned,...
"De-Nazification"...every interned DEP..."disarmed enemy personnel", so they could be held under different provisions from POWS...meant each man was questioned, his record checked, and him being given one of four statuses....

But the process was VERY slow...and eventually the Occupation governments hived it off after nearly two years to the Germans themselves...who promptly abandoned it after just three months!

Only about 30% of internees were ever processed.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:32
Bungitin
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"De-Nazification"...every interned DEP..."disarmed enemy personnel", so they could be held under different provisions from POWS...meant each man was questioned, his record checked, and him being given one of four statuses....

But the process was VERY slow...and eventually the Occupation governments hived it off after nearly two years to the Germans themselves...who promptly abandoned it after just three months!

Only about 30% of internees were ever processed.
Is that why they have just arrested an Auschwitz guard?
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