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Old 03-05-2013, 12:15
mikesuffs
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Because there's no demand of course! Apparently so anyway...

Recent trends have shown us that the physical keyboard is not as important to the majority as a lot of screen estate. However I know a good amount of people who still want a keyboard (including me) yet are stuck with 2-3 year old Nokia phones or Blackberrys..

It's always delusional to believe that everyone else in the market wants what you want. They don't and I understand this.

However, whilst an Android phone (styled something like the new BB Q10 say) may be appealing to a small section of the market, it really would have that entire market to itself. There is no competition. Zero!

My guess would be that it could be quite a shrewd move.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:22
stalminenet
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I'm still running my Nokia N900 until somebody designs a phone as good as the N900 that either runs android or something as good as meamo 5 because i've not seen anything that's as capable as my phone yet, who else can run full blown Linux software on their phone such as GIMP Open office and of course Firefox, without any major changes to the OS or running emulation and i definite need a keyboard, as i hate typing on screen keyboards they always seem to miss typing properly and can't keep up with how i type
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:28
kev
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My housemate has a Motorola Android handset with physical keyboard. However he found the touch screen on his work S3 was so much better than the small physical keyboard he ended up getting one of those instead.

I also have one on my desk at work (for testing) and they keyboard takes up soooo much space the screen is massively compromised.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:31
stalminenet
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screen size isn't really important to me tbh, what motorola was it btw and solong as the screen is about 3.5 to 4 inch its fine anything bigger would break with me
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:46
IvanIV
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A physical keyboard was an USP when all other phones had 3x3 keyboards. It might be nice on a smartphone now, too, but it's a mechanical complication and takes space from the screen. I think Sony Ericsson used to have some phones with a keyboard, Dell was supposed to make WP7 phone with a physical keyboard, it did not end well. But there are still feature phones around for those who want it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 15:42
paulbrock
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Google have been encouraging manufacturers to make almost all controls on screen only (i.e. no physical buttons, even for 'back' or 'home'. Quite a few have been slow to follow this suggestion though.

That being said, I don't think there's anything stopping a handset coming out with a physical keyboard...

It won't be on its own though. According to GSM Arena data, 13 Android phones with QWERTY keyboards were announced either last year or this year.

http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3...e=0&sFreeText=
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Old 03-05-2013, 16:41
scooby1970
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I still have a HTC ChaCha that is used and that is an Android phone with physical keyboard. Great phone, and an excellent keyboard.

Mark
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Old 03-05-2013, 16:54
PencilBreath
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after using swiftkey, i'll never want to use a physical keyboard on a phone ever again.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:40
Step666
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According to GSM Arena data, 13 Android phones with QWERTY keyboards were announced either last year or this year.

http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3...e=0&sFreeText=
Assuming the OP is in the UK or at least Europe, once you rule out models that are exclusively for specific US networks or are from brands that you wouldn't be able to find over here, that leaves 4 - a Samsung, a ZTE and 2 Alcatels:
Samsung Galaxy Chat B5330
ZTE V875
Alcatel OT-915
Alcatel OT-916
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:23
David (2)
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I am using a touch screen now and i hate it. Terrible for inputting text like on this web site or messages. BTW android is awful as well. While I am typing this I can't play my music selection (multitasking), very 1986. I can't work out why such a horrid.combination is so popular.

So this means I now own 2 phones. I use my old push button Sony my main contact phone. This one is just for mobile internet (its hopeless for even taking a call as half.the time the screen fails.to respond in time b 4 voice mail takes over). I also have an ipod shuffle just for music playback-changes at work means I can't use a phone to play music + the HTC phone is rubbish as a music.player and battery life is a joke. Plan to get a pocket dab radio next month as well due to no mp3 players being sold with them built in (only fm which is way to limited on stations in this part the uk). It's all a bit mad and untidy. Things should b better than this-afterall this is 2013.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:13
kev
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I am using a touch screen now and i hate it. Terrible for inputting text like on this web site or messages. BTW android is awful as well. While I am typing this I can't play my music selection (multitasking), very 1986. I can't work out why such a horrid.combination is so popular.
What phone have you got - every Android I have tried allows you to listen to music while browsing the web, from the most rubbish Acer and own label handsets all the way through to the top end ones.

Tapping touch screen keyboards is awful, but Swype is amazing and much quicker than trying to use T9 or multitap.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:58
David (2)
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What phone have you got - every Android I have tried allows you to listen to music while browsing the web, from the most rubbish Acer and own label handsets all the way through to the top end ones.

Tapping touch screen keyboards is awful, but Swype is amazing and much quicker than trying to use T9 or multitap.
HTC wildfire.
Can't run internet & music or anything else for that matter.. Eg even if I run the internet and want to run the calculator I would need to exit internet first. No way to reach apps without going back to home screen, needs a start menu type device.

Using the quote screen for this reply was a nightmare, screen keeps jumping around with the new text going out if sight.
scrolling the quote box is next to impossible.

I don't know why but some times the screen has a mind of its own when I put the phone down the screen some times does things like go landscape or go to other screen's in its own. At other times it won't go landscape.

I don't know what t9 means but my push button Sony has a zoom button for pictures & rotate button which while slow always worked which I can't say about the HTC.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:56
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Sony Ericsson Xperia Mini Pro had one
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Old 04-05-2013, 14:46
kev
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That would explain it - one of the worst Androids I've used - far too underpowered for the version of Android on it. The annoying thing is it doesn't feel like it come free in a packet of corn flakes like some cheap Androids do, but in terms of using it it's horrible and laggy.

Can't run internet & music or anything else for that matter.. Eg even if I run the internet and want to run the calculator I would need to exit internet first. No way to reach apps without going back to home screen, needs a start menu type device.
Can't say I've come across that problem - pressing the home button when listening to music on that phone just takes me to the home screen (pressing back on the other hand will close most apps). Most people put the apps they use on a daily basis on the home screen so they don't need to use the full Apps menu (a nice easy way to hide all the bundled tat you use once if that too).

Pressing and holding the home button will allow you to switch between the running applications too (although on a phone with as little memory as the Wildfire hitting some complex websites is likely to eat up all the memory closing the other running apps)
Using the quote screen for this reply was a nightmare, screen keeps jumping around with the new text going out if sight.
scrolling the quote box is next to impossible.
Some websites, especially this one, aren't optimised for mobile devices much, especially when accessed from a HTC with there oversized keyboards (making the already minimal screen space even more cramped).
I don't know why but some times the screen has a mind of its own when I put the phone down the screen some times does things like go landscape or go to other screen's in its own. At other times it won't go landscape.
That's the auto-rotate functionality - there should be an option to turn that off in settings, I find it more annoying that anything else.

I don't know what t9 means
T9 was the predictive text on a candybar mobiles keypad - e.g. to type CAT you either did 222 2 8 or 228 - the former was without T9 and the latter with T9.
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Old 04-05-2013, 18:18
Billy Bumbly
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HTC wildfire.
Can't run internet & music or anything else for that matter.. Eg even if I run the internet and want to run the calculator I would need to exit internet first. No way to reach apps without going back to home screen, needs a start menu type device.

Using the quote screen for this reply was a nightmare, screen keeps jumping around with the new text going out if sight.
scrolling the quote box is next to impossible.

I don't know why but some times the screen has a mind of its own when I put the phone down the screen some times does things like go landscape or go to other screen's in its own. At other times it won't go landscape.

I don't know what t9 means but my push button Sony has a zoom button for pictures & rotate button which while slow always worked which I can't say about the HTC.
Mate, do your self a favour and get a better Android phone. The Wildfire always has been a piece of shit. The ZTE Blade 3 is available for 70 quid. Or the Huawei Ascend for 130 quid is even better. All modern Android phones handle multi tasking really well, they have a built in button or shortcut for it.

The reason that you dont get physical keyboards any more is that touch is faster and people want bigger screens. Althoughi think a well made portrait slider like the BB Torch has a place
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Old 04-05-2013, 22:48
David (2)
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update. Thanks to both posters. Just to clarify...

its a Wildfire S and just over 1 year old, hope this is not considered too "old" - I still have not got the hang of it, I doubt I ever will. A lot of the time, I give up with it which is on a wider note what I have done now - I don't use it as a phone or a music player, just portable (and not so great) internet.

Pressing + holding Home button when in an app or the internet brings up a "Recent" screen, which is empty, and not the full home screen. What am I doing wrong?

The thing with the auto rotate is a good idea, I don't want to turn it off, but I also don't expect it to start switching screens or switching to landscape when I place the phone on a flat surface like a table.

What I would like to see, but I some how doubt will happen is....
A sharing of setup between desktop (or laptop) and mobile device. So for example if I make a internet favorite on the phone I would like it to appear on my pc the next time I turn it on. Would a Windows 8 PC and Windows 8 phone allow this to happen, if not now, then in the future?

Internet browser on Smart phone to include spell checker, like IE10 on Windows.

Ability to print out via USB and Wifi to printers with those features. Cant seem to find any option to do this with pictures on Android.

100% revamp of the front end, inc

The ability to change the size of the icons/app name text size.
Ability to change app icons.
Everything on a single screen, none of this some things on another screen - this is a really basic thing that really really bugs me no end. I see why its done, to save visual space, and keep things you never bother with out of sight (but I still hate it - just takes more operations and time to do some thing that shouldn't take more than one click). But this could be done with folders and/or putting things on a pop up menu - everything could be found via such a menu if you wanted to work that way, and being properly multi-layered it would be a generic pop up which operated even when you had apps to the front.
Another "simple" thing I would bring in ASAP (looks like an oversight) is to get Android to go landscape as well. Pictures switch, but go back to the main screen and its the other way round, very odd.
I would also like a proper file explorer interface so you could see your files in a windows style format, with the ability to select a file (single touch) and delete it from the explorer desktop.
A much improved file search system, rather than one that just looks on the web and for apps. One that could look for names of your files inside the phone. This would need to be part of the main pop up menu so you could get to it at any time.
Upgrade the multiclock app. Currently stuck with at least one clock and cant change this one, but can change all the others, but these don't display on the home screen. It is limited to my location time zone and London next to it. The other time zones I put in cant override My location and London. Would think it would be very handy for some people to put whichever ones they want on display all the time.
On an even more minor note, I know you can download one, but really, there should be a note pad app provided with the phone/Android (with the ability to save notes, maybe as stickies to place on the screen, and with a spell checker in built). If the argument is that its not important and you can download a free one, then why do they bother putting in things like a calculator app?

Connect external USB keyboard....its got a Mini USB so would connect with adaptor plug, but will android work with external keyboards.

Vast upgrade to the audio side, with a.....graphic equaliser and other features, eg bass boost, vocal enhance, flat, headphones optimized, speaker optimized, Classical mode, Rock mode, and so on (this could also inc a preset for "EU Vol Limit"). A graphic effects visualizer would be nice too, and the ability to use your own image files in such a feature would be cool.

Peer to peer networking so I could log on to and see the hard drive and its contents of my home PC on the phone with the ability to open generic files such as JPG and QuickTime.

3D rotate. A bit like what we see on the maps feature, but far beyond that with the ability to rotate almost anything with a touch gesture, inc rotating system app icons. 3D generated content could be manipulated on screen and "turned round" etc.

Greatly improve battery life!!!


Whats good....not much...but,
Video works well, inc from the web (needs wifi) and looks quite good.
Quality of zoomed text is very good, and the pinch and expand function work well, so why does it struggle with the basic stuff like activating the screen to take a call?

Lastly, how do other phones compare, not just to my one but also how to they compare to my list, can (for example) Apple iOS do any of those things?
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Old 05-05-2013, 00:46
godlives
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Because there's no demand of course! Apparently so anyway...

Recent trends have shown us that the physical keyboard is not as important to the majority as a lot of screen estate. However I know a good amount of people who still want a keyboard (including me) yet are stuck with 2-3 year old Nokia phones or Blackberrys..

It's always delusional to believe that everyone else in the market wants what you want. They don't and I understand this.

However, whilst an Android phone (styled something like the new BB Q10 say) may be appealing to a small section of the market, it really would have that entire market to itself. There is no competition. Zero!

My guess would be that it could be quite a shrewd move.
my partner has a motorola pro plus which he loves as it gives him the touch screen and the keyboard as he prefers a physical keyboard alas he had to get a sim free one off the internet as unfortunately the phone shops have limited choice when it comes to android phones with psychical keyboard

http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_pro+-4128.php
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Old 05-05-2013, 15:55
kev
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Pressing + holding Home button when in an app or the internet brings up a "Recent" screen, which is empty, and not the full home screen. What am I doing wrong?
Odd, possibly a buggy software version on the phone (the music problem only makes that choice look more obvious)

A sharing of setup between desktop (or laptop) and mobile device. So for example if I make a internet favorite on the phone I would like it to appear on my pc the next time I turn it on. Would a Windows 8 PC and Windows 8 phone allow this to happen, if not now, then in the future?
Using the Chrome browser on your desktop and Android will achieve that right now.

Internet browser on Smart phone to include spell checker, like IE10 on Windows.
Using the Swype keypad adds that too all text input right now - even highlighting "too" when "to" or "two" would have made more sense in the context in which they were written.

Ability to print out via USB and Wifi to printers with those features. Cant seem to find any option to do this with pictures on Android.
If you use Google Chrome on your desktop you can take advantage of Google Cloud print to print to USB printers (the PC running Google Chrome will need to be on to actually print - but you could print documents every day while you are on holiday, and when you return home they will come out the printer) or via WiFi. Alas not a native feature but the "Printer Share" app allows you do that from most applications.

100% revamp of the front end, inc

The ability to change the size of the icons/app name text size.
Ability to change app icons.
Alternative launchers are available which allow you to do exactly that. On Android 4.0 and later you can also make the text size throughout the OS bigger.

Everything on a single screen, none of this some things on another screen - this is a really basic thing that really really bugs me no end. I see why its done, to save visual space, and keep things you never bother with out of sight (but I still hate it - just takes more operations and time to do some thing that shouldn't take more than one click).
Not sure what you are on about here, but on many devices stuff which appears on one screen on my handset (Xperia S) are buried away on smaller devices due to the lack of screen real estate)

But this could be done with folders and/or putting things on a pop up menu - everything could be found via such a menu if you wanted to work that way, and being properly multi-layered it would be a generic pop up which operated even when you had apps to the front.
On Android 4 many options are in a "more" menu which is on screen all the time within the app - and TBH with the limitions on screen space I don't see how a popup will be any better than just pressing home (especially when you consider than on the vast majority of phones and apps you can immediately return to where you were anyway).

Another "simple" thing I would bring in ASAP (looks like an oversight) is to get Android to go landscape as well. Pictures switch, but go back to the main screen and its the other way round, very odd.
HTC must have screwed this up on your Wildfire - been a feature of Android since at least Donut (the second publically available version). There is the odd badly designed app that runs in the wrong orientation but most will run in landscape just fine.

I would also like a proper file explorer interface so you could see your files in a windows style format, with the ability to select a file (single touch) and delete it from the explorer desktop.
File Explorer in the Play Store will give you that - you need to press and hold to do anything other than open though.

Upgrade the multiclock app. Currently stuck with at least one clock and cant change this one, but can change all the others, but these don't display on the home screen. It is limited to my location time zone and London next to it. The other time zones I put in cant override My location and London. Would think it would be very handy for some people to put whichever ones they want on display all the time.
That's a HTC overlay, which never seams to work properly (It always seams to think our office is in Uttoexter for some reason). There is inevitably a World Clock app which allows you do exactly that though.

On an even more minor note, I know you can download one, but really, there should be a note pad app provided with the phone/Android (with the ability to save notes, maybe as stickies to place on the screen, and with a spell checker in built). If the argument is that its not important and you can download a free one, then why do they bother putting in things like a calculator app?
The calculator is something HTC have added - my Sony handset came with both a notepad and calculator - and with the Swype keyboard I have a spell checker It wouldn't surprise me to find Google Keep comes as standard on future Android handsets, and this has stickies too.

Connect external USB keyboard....its got a Mini USB so would connect with adaptor plug, but will android work with external keyboards.
It does, and I occasionally use one. Need a USB OTG cable adaptor mind. Works with a mouse too. This is a feature on newer phones though - certainty not on older/basic handsets like the Wildfire.

Vast upgrade to the audio side, with a.....graphic equaliser and other features, eg bass boost, vocal enhance, flat, headphones optimized, speaker optimized, Classical mode, Rock mode, and so on (this could also inc a preset for "EU Vol Limit"). A graphic effects visualizer would be nice too, and the ability to use your own image files in such a feature would be cool.
Most of that (all aside from the last point) are on my Xperia and I think HTC have them on their Beats Audio enabled handsets.

Peer to peer networking so I could log on to and see the hard drive and its contents of my home PC on the phone with the ability to open generic files such as JPG and QuickTime.
My phone shares media files via UPNP (think this may be a Sony addition though) and SWIFTP will allow you to browse the contents ofd your phone

Greatly improve battery life!!!
No argument from me on this point!


Lastly, how do other phones compare, not just to my one but also how to they compare to my list, can (for example) Apple iOS do any of those things?
IOS - Some apps have spell check, certainly no stickies, but you have a fugly notepad, switching apps is same as Android (press and hold home to see what's running), you can print to some printers which specifically support iPhones - over WiFi. Keyboards are via Bluetooth only, you've got pretty much zero chance of making any customisation though, or advanced things like file browsing (apps are fully sandboxed so can't see one another's files). AirPlay is a brilliant feature (for beaming media to supported devices) however battery life still sucks.

Windows 8 - my colleague returned his within 24 hours as it required so much jumping through hoops to do anything and was even less customisable - can't really comment in too much depth on this.

If you want all the advanced integration you really need to use just one suppliers stuff though - e.g.
Android - use Chrome, Google Mail, Google Docs, Google Play Music etc
IOS - use Safari, Apple Mail, iTunes etc
Windows Phone - Use IE 10, Windows 8, Office 365, Outlook.com, Windows Media Player
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Old 05-05-2013, 15:58
big brother 9
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i used to despise touch screen phones and was always a keypad lover untill i got the original iphone and now couldnt imagine using a keyboard type handset. the screens just look nicer
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Old 05-05-2013, 16:19
David (2)
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Odd, possibly a buggy software version on the phone (the music problem only makes that choice look more obvious)



Using the Chrome browser on your desktop and Android will achieve that right now.


Using the Swype keypad adds that too all text input right now - even highlighting "too" when "to" or "two" would have made more sense in the context in which they were written.



If you use Google Chrome on your desktop you can take advantage of Google Cloud print to print to USB printers (the PC running Google Chrome will need to be on to actually print - but you could print documents every day while you are on holiday, and when you return home they will come out the printer) or via WiFi. Alas not a native feature but the "Printer Share" app allows you do that from most applications.


Alternative launchers are available which allow you to do exactly that. On Android 4.0 and later you can also make the text size throughout the OS bigger.


Not sure what you are on about here, but on many devices stuff which appears on one screen on my handset (Xperia S) are buried away on smaller devices due to the lack of screen real estate)



On Android 4 many options are in a "more" menu which is on screen all the time within the app - and TBH with the limitions on screen space I don't see how a popup will be any better than just pressing home (especially when you consider than on the vast majority of phones and apps you can immediately return to where you were anyway).



HTC must have screwed this up on your Wildfire - been a feature of Android since at least Donut (the second publically available version). There is the odd badly designed app that runs in the wrong orientation but most will run in landscape just fine.


File Explorer in the Play Store will give you that - you need to press and hold to do anything other than open though.



That's a HTC overlay, which never seams to work properly (It always seams to think our office is in Uttoexter for some reason). There is inevitably a World Clock app which allows you do exactly that though.


The calculator is something HTC have added - my Sony handset came with both a notepad and calculator - and with the Swype keyboard I have a spell checker It wouldn't surprise me to find Google Keep comes as standard on future Android handsets, and this has stickies too.


It does, and I occasionally use one. Need a USB OTG cable adaptor mind. Works with a mouse too. This is a feature on newer phones though - certainty not on older/basic handsets like the Wildfire.


Most of that (all aside from the last point) are on my Xperia and I think HTC have them on their Beats Audio enabled handsets.


My phone shares media files via UPNP (think this may be a Sony addition though) and SWIFTP will allow you to browse the contents ofd your phone


No argument from me on this point!




IOS - Some apps have spell check, certainly no stickies, but you have a fugly notepad, switching apps is same as Android (press and hold home to see what's running), you can print to some printers which specifically support iPhones - over WiFi. Keyboards are via Bluetooth only, you've got pretty much zero chance of making any customisation though, or advanced things like file browsing (apps are fully sandboxed so can't see one another's files). AirPlay is a brilliant feature (for beaming media to supported devices) however battery life still sucks.

Windows 8 - my colleague returned his within 24 hours as it required so much jumping through hoops to do anything and was even less customisable - can't really comment in too much depth on this.

If you want all the advanced integration you really need to use just one suppliers stuff though - e.g.
Android - use Chrome, Google Mail, Google Docs, Google Play Music etc
IOS - use Safari, Apple Mail, iTunes etc
Windows Phone - Use IE 10, Windows 8, Office 365, Outlook.com, Windows Media Player
thanks for the indepth info will take a while to digest. And here was me thinking it would just b a case of switching it on which at the end of the day i Kinda wanted and expected.
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Old 05-05-2013, 16:33
Itsallaboutyou
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Liking the Pro+

Didn't Orange have one called the Barcelona? I remember having a Motorola Dext back in 2010 - ran Android 1.5/6 - cost me about 180 but it was nifty phone with a slide out keyboard.
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Old 05-05-2013, 17:29
midnightdraven
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Pressing + holding Home button when in an app or the internet brings up a "Recent" screen, which is empty, and not the full home screen. What am I doing wrong?
You don't press and hold [just tried this on galaxy ace and didn't know there was a recent screen!] you just press it. That brings you back to the regular home screen.
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Old 05-05-2013, 17:53
David (2)
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You don't press and hold [just tried this on galaxy ace and didn't know there was a recent screen!] you just press it. That brings you back to the regular home screen.
That just quits the internet as far as I can c, while staying logged into web sites which is.not what I want to do. There is no way to switch between open apps other than the Recent screen option
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Old 05-05-2013, 17:56
whoever,hey
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That just quits the internet as far as I can c, while staying logged into web sites which is.not what I want to do. There is no way to switch between open apps other than the Recent screen option
What does c mean?
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Old 05-05-2013, 18:32
kev
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thanks for the indepth info will take a while to digest. And here was me thinking it would just b a case of switching it on which at the end of the day i Kinda wanted and expected.
That's the problem - what you expect, what I expect, and what my mum expects will all be different things.

Aside from the spell check feature* and improved battery life I doubt very many people would actually make use of many of the things you want (and after supporting a great many people using smart phones many of these would add to there general confusion and complexity) - but the great thing about Android's open design is that those people who want to change them can. If something irritates you about IOS then your stuck with it.

* Which is kinda there anyway, in that if you type "color" on predictive text it will default to "colour" for you.

c = see - guessing he's typing on the phone right now!
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