Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 

Do you agree with Dave Grohl?


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-05-2013, 14:17
ags_rule
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,831

“When I think about kids watching a TV show like American Idol or The Voice, then they think, ‘Oh, OK, that’s how you become a musician, you stand in line for eight ****ing hours with 800 people at a convention center and… then you sing your heart out for someone and then they tell you it’s not ****in’ good enough.’ Can you imagine?” he implores. “It’s destroying the next generation of musicians! Musicians should go to a yard sale and buy and old ****ing drum set and get in their garage and just suck. And get their friends to come in and they’ll suck, too. And then they’ll ****ing start playing and they’ll have the best time they’ve ever had in their lives and then all of a sudden they’ll become Nirvana. Because that’s exactly what happened with Nirvana. Just a bunch of guys that had some shitty old instruments and they got together and started playing some noisy-ass shit, and they became the biggest band in the world. That can happen again! You don’t need a ****ing computer or the internet or The Voice or American Idol.”
Couldn't have put it any better myself!
ags_rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 06-05-2013, 14:36
MrMeatAndPotato
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,229
True what he says... It's more of a platform for 'fame' programmes like X Factor and American Idol. How many come out of it with even a career in music?

Those that queue up want a celebrity lifestyle, in music or not seems to be pretty irrelevant. So it's so easy to exploit.

You only have to look at Rylan to get the full picture of what it's for. He went on it, then went on to Big Brother and is now more of a tv presenter.

And then people wonder why no one takes this nonsense seriously
MrMeatAndPotato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 14:38
Spider Rico
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,155
To an extent, yes. Kids are growing up seeing these reality shows thinking music is a competition and getting attention on one of these glorified karaoke competitions is the be-all and end-all.

First and foremost, music should be something you enjoy, a wonderful way to allow you to express yourself. The harder you work, the more you will be able to express yourself. Don't get me wrong, there have been some hugely talented acts on these talented shows, but we also have the likes of One Direction and Cheryl Cole who have got very lucky in terms of being in the right place at the right time(I'm sure they'd even admit that themselves, no matter how hard they have worked since.)

I have a 10-year-old son, and I'd be much happier if he said "Dad, I want to grow up and sing live, and write and record my own music" rather than "Dad, I want to go on the X Factor and be famous".
Spider Rico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 14:46
gomezz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Buckingham
Posts: 23,580
Makes you wonder why they don't have a big TV battle of the bands style programme?

If promoter's of local competitions could offer an spot on that for their winners that has to be attractive. And the TV audience is selected by lottery from those going to their local events which should help keep the vibe right as well as boosting local crowds.
gomezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 14:49
Spider Rico
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,155
Makes you wonder why they don't have a big TV batttle of the bands style programme?
There was Must Be The Music over here on Sky One for bands and solo acts, but it was axed after one series, yet the repetitive Got To Dance goes from strength to strength
Spider Rico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 14:50
AdzPower
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,001
To an extent, yes. Kids are growing up seeing these reality shows thinking music is a competition and getting attention on one of these glorified karaoke competitions is the be-all and end-all.

First and foremost, music should be something you enjoy, a wonderful way to allow you to express yourself. The harder you work, the more you will be able to express yourself. Don't get me wrong, there have been some hugely talented acts on these talented shows, but we also have the likes of One Direction and Cheryl Cole who have got very lucky in terms of being in the right place at the right time(I'm sure they'd even admit that themselves, no matter how hard they have worked since.)

I have a 10-year-old son, and I'd be much happier if he said "Dad, I want to grow up and sing live, and write and record my own music" rather than "Dad, I want to go on the X Factor and be famous".
I agree with everything you said except for your comment on Cheryl, out of curiosity I read her book a few months ago, she actually worked very hard before she auditioned for that show, she took all kinds of dance classes and worked with musicians in London learning the way your produce and write music, she also performed in a variety of shopping malls around the north in an attempt to get experience and to learn more about the industry, granted her voice isn't perfect, and without that show she probably wouldn't have gotten well known, but she did work hard BEFORE she even contemplated going on the show.

I iamgine most people resort to this as a conduit to try and get themselves a record deal so they can fulfil their dreams of becoming a recording artist, however these days I agree with Dave in that a lot of the people just want a quick burst of fame, the likes of Rylan being a prime example.
But I guess it isn't their fault, young people (including myself, I'm only 20) are raised on these shows and perhaps get a warped sense of being a musician/artist.
AdzPower is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 14:50
Gigi4
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,818
I agree with him as far as I don't like reality competition shows. But I don't agree with how he's implying that only loud rock music made with real instruments is a valid form of musical self expression.
Electronic music is valid too. In fact, for some people it's easier and less expensive to create music on a computer and it helps them get into the music business. Not all electronic music is bad and uninnovative as he implies. I like rock, but I'm not a snob and think it's more authentic. Dance and electronica done on computers is equally valid.
Gigi4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 14:56
Spider Rico
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,155
I agree with everything you said except for your comment on Cheryl, out of curiosity I read her book a few months ago, she actually worked very hard before she auditioned for that show, she took all kinds of dance classes and worked with musicians in London learning the way your produce and write music, she also performed in a variety of shopping malls around the north in an attempt to get experience and to learn more about the industry, granted her voice isn't perfect, and without that show she probably wouldn't have gotten well known, but she did work hard BEFORE she even contemplated going on the show.

I iamgine most people resort to this as a conduit to try and get themselves a record deal so they can fulfil their dreams of becoming a recording artist, however these days I agree with Dave in that a lot of the people just want a quick burst of fame, the likes of Rylan being a prime example.
But I guess it isn't their fault, young people (including myself, I'm only 20) are raised on these shows and perhaps get a warped sense of being a musician/artist.
That's interesting. I wasn't really aware of what she had done prior to Popstars:The Rivals.

I agree with him as far as I don't like reality competition shows. But I don't agree with how he's implying that only loud rock music made with real instruments is a valid form of musical self expression.
Electronic music is valid too. In fact, for some people it's easier and less expensive to create music on a computer and it helps them get into the music business. Not all electronic music is bad and uninnovative as he implies. I like rock, but I'm not a snob and think it's more authentic. Dance and electronica done on computers is equally valid.
Yeah, I remember him saying(probably over 10 years ago, now) how he didn't think good music could be created/produced on a computer. I didn't agree then, and still don't agree now. I'm a rock/pop kind of guy and have been recording via a PC-based home studio for nearly 13 years or so and have been really happy with the results.
Spider Rico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 15:40
mushymanrob
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
Posts: 10,434
musically, yes...but talent shows arent really interested in musicians (as in groups). cowell has little knowledge or liking for guitar based music, hes interested in manufactured/controlled money making acts (and i chose the word 'acts' deliberately, instead of artists).
mushymanrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 16:11
mgvsmith
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belfast
Posts: 4,058
I would say Dave Grohl is about right on the negative influence of 'fame' shows. We have always had some talent shows on TV and battle of the bands down the local pub but we have passed the saturation point on TV talent shows and Grohl is worried that it will have a lasting influence on suggesting that being a 'pop star' is just about being famous for a while. Because of the production methods of these shows, there is a real danger that musicianship will diminish in future.

On the point about technology, again there is less technique and performance in relation to electronic music but there is musicianship and creativity, nevertheless. Admittedly, large swathes of chart music do sound overproduced and generic at times but you don't need guitars to be creative. You wouldn't have Trance, Hip Hop and Ambient without electronics, not that these genres feature on the X Factor very often!
mgvsmith is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 17:12
twingle
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 15,829
BUT the big question is would he have audtioned if there were shows like that in his day?

So many artists diss talent shows without thinking it through. Yes there are fame wannabes and that's why we have big brother and survivor etc but I believe the majority of contestants go on music shows to showcase themselves and hopefully get a break at the same time. What is important is what they do with that break.

This article strikes me as elitist as if there is only one way to make music well tell that to Sinatra and Elvis fans as neither act wrote their own music

It reminds me of the Andrew Lloyd Webber talent shows searching for a west end star and so many theatre snobs were saying you couldn't be a star unless you paid your dues. What rubbish talent is talent but subjective as is music and what one poster sees as talent another won't

Cheryl (Girls Aloud) and One Direction were created exactly the same way as the Wanted or the Saturdays through auditions the only diference was the former was created in front of a live audience whereas the latter behind the scenes. Yes it's manufactured as are a lot of music acts and it's not for everyone as is Nirvana not for everyone.

Thank goodness we all like different things or the music world would be prety boring!
twingle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 17:40
MrMeatAndPotato
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,229
BUT the big question is would he have audtioned if there were shows like that in his day?

So many artists diss talent shows without thinking it through. Yes there are fame wannabes and that's why we have big brother and survivor etc but I believe the majority of contestants go on music shows to showcase themselves and hopefully get a break at the same time. What is important is what they do with that break.

This article strikes me as elitist as if there is only one way to make music well tell that to Sinatra and Elvis fans as neither act wrote their own music

It reminds me of the Andrew Lloyd Webber talent shows searching for a west end star and so many theatre snobs were saying you couldn't be a star unless you paid your dues. What rubbish talent is talent but subjective as is music and what one poster sees as talent another won't

Cheryl (Girls Aloud) and One Direction were created exactly the same way as the Wanted or the Saturdays through auditions the only diference was the former was created in front of a live audience whereas the latter behind the scenes. Yes it's manufactured as are a lot of music acts and it's not for everyone as is Nirvana not for everyone.

Thank goodness we all like different things or the music world would be prety boring!
No, he wouldn't. So you can stop trying to push that nonsense
MrMeatAndPotato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 17:52
O.Michel
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,994
He's right, but what he says only applies to bands. What can a vocalist do? Go to a garage and...sing? He has a great point if we talk about American Idol and X Factor, but I don't see anything wrong with 'The Voice' tbh. If I'm not mistaken, the blind auditions are not for everybody who turns up, they select a bunch of contestants through videos of themselves that they've submitted beforehand. So, 'The Voice' could be for vocalists what "the garage" he's referring to is for bands. If you send your tape and you don't get accepted, you work harder and try again next time
O.Michel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 17:55
Big Boy Barry
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Barry's Manor
Posts: 23,482
Yes he's correct for the most part.
Big Boy Barry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 18:03
Semierotic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,631
BUT the big question is would he have audtioned if there were shows like that in his day?
Seeing as how these talent shows have no time for rock music, I'd guess not.

I disagree with Grohl on one thing though - whatever kind of music you play, you have to be internet savvy when it comes to marketing yourself. It's this generation's equivalent of building word of mouth through gigging.
Semierotic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 18:49
twingle
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 15,829
No, he wouldn't. So you can stop trying to push that nonsense
And you know this for a fact.............:
twingle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 19:03
Paul Wilson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,494
And you know this for a fact.............:
Well I've never met the bloke, so I can't say for sure, and I suppose anythings possible, but the idea of the man who drummed on Serve The Servants going on to anything like the X Factor is exceptionally unlikely.
Paul Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 19:45
embryo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 552
And you know this for a fact.............:
Well it's impossible to know for a fact either way, but do you honestly think it would be likely? Considering that in his early career his music interests were punk and heavy rock, and his pre-Nirvana band was Scream, a hardcore punk group. I don't imagine shows like The X Factor would really have appealed to him, nor would he appeal to the TV shows. How many hardcore punks do you see making it big on TV talent shows today?
embryo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 19:46
big brother 9
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,417
they [ people likedave] are welcome to their opinon as they have worked hard to get where they are today but i wouldnt begrudge anyone getting a step up the ladder
big brother 9 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 19:48
Deep Purple
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 43,586
Dave speaks a lot of sense, as usual.

I detest these talent shows, and all who spawn from them.
Deep Purple is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 20:14
MrMeatAndPotato
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,229
Well it's impossible to know for a fact either way, but do you honestly think it would be likely? Considering that in his early career his music interests were punk and heavy rock, and his pre-Nirvana band was Scream, a hardcore punk group. I don't imagine shows like The X Factor would really have appealed to him, nor would he appeal to the TV shows. How many hardcore punks do you see making it big on TV talent shows today?
Stop. Logic isn't allowed round here.
MrMeatAndPotato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 20:26
Stu_Mck5
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 136
I can see the point he's trying to make although I don't 100% completely agree with all of it..
Stu_Mck5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 20:35
guiser
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 95
Well he's got a point, but it's hardly an original thought is it?

Yes, there are a whole bunch of people who can hold a tune who think they can be the next (insert name of generic pop singer of choice here) but you only have to look at the 'small print' at the bottom of any music festival lineup to see there are also dozens of 'proper' bands and acts struggling to make the big time in the traditional way.

The problem for me is the amount of exposure the talent show acts get compared as opposed to anyone who spends a couple of years schlepping round the country, playing for next to nothing (or less) and hoping that enough people will talk about them, post clips of them and buy their products to allow them to keep going.

I'm not even sure they'd get any more exposure even if the talent shows all stopped tomorrow though.

There's a big divide between the safe acts that get record company and commercial radio/tv backing and those who are left to languish in the nether regions of youtube because they don't sound like everyone else.
guiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 21:03
cnbcwatcher
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: At college, in L.A.'s office
Posts: 51,210
I agree with him as far as I don't like reality competition shows. But I don't agree with how he's implying that only loud rock music made with real instruments is a valid form of musical self expression.
Electronic music is valid too. In fact, for some people it's easier and less expensive to create music on a computer and it helps them get into the music business. Not all electronic music is bad and uninnovative as he implies. I like rock, but I'm not a snob and think it's more authentic. Dance and electronica done on computers is equally valid.
I was just going to say the same thing. A lot of electronic music (not the electropop stuff in the charts, but electronica acts not known in the mainstream) can be quite good and creative. Saying that guitar and drum based music is the only creative music around is a bit snobbish really. And what about solo singers?
cnbcwatcher is online now Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 21:21
mgvsmith
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belfast
Posts: 4,058
BUT the big question is would he have audtioned if there were shows like that in his day?

This article strikes me as elitist as if there is only one way to make music well tell that to Sinatra and Elvis fans as neither act wrote their own music
I don't think it is the big question because the quote tells you exactly how he did it and there are plenty of bands who still do it that way.

Yes, there have always been singer/performers like Sinatra and Elvis etc but Grohl is just trying to restore a bit of balance for those artists who really want to do their own thing. And that doesn't just apply to long-haired rockers like himself - rap, dance, DJs, reggae, electronic, RnB groups etc don't exactly appear too often on these shows.
mgvsmith is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:07.