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Old 08-05-2013, 15:03
Everything Goes
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Nokia investors are not happy with the lacklustre performance of the company and its decision to go with Windows.

Shareholder Hannu Virtanen told Elop: 'You're a nice guy ... and the leadership team is doing its best, but clearly, it's not enough...Are you aware that results are what matter? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Please switch to another road.'

However, Elop defended his strategy and said the business was on the right track. He said: 'We make adjustments as we go. But it's very clear to us that in today's war of ecosystems, we've made a very clear decision to focus on Windows Phone with our Lumia product line. And it is with that that we will compete with competitors like Samsung and [Google's operating system] Android.'


http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/25...d_to_hell.aspx
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Old 08-05-2013, 15:18
McTeagle
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I saw today as well. Perhaps Mr Elop should look at Microsoft's previous partnerships:

http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-...bile-partners/

They've either gone bankrupt or switched to Android.

I had some wonderful Nokia phones over the years. The trouble started with the 5800 Music Express. It sounded great, but it was their first touchscreen and didn't work very well. For my next upgrade, I went with the C6, which had a very good slide out Qwerty keyboard and Nokia sat nav. However, the touchscreen part again wasn't brilliant and I was left severely unimpressed by the lack of decent apps compared to Apple.

I didn't choose an Android phone because I didn't really know enough about them. I finally did the research I should have done before getting the C6, and when my next upgrade came round again, I went straight for a Galaxy S2. No need to tell you how good a choice that was.

I did have a Windows phone years ago on T-Mobile, but it was absolutely horrific. I got it for the free Co-Pilot software, but I couldn't even receive calls on it. I'm sure it's improved since, but I'll never have another Windows phone.

A Nokia android phone would put them straight back in the game in my opinion - especially if it was vanilla Android. The last two ones I owned were very disappointing, but the 6300 I had may well have been the best phone I have ever owned, taking available technology into account. I'd certainly think about looking at them again if they did an android phone - but right now, they're completely off my radar.
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Old 08-05-2013, 15:27
Step666
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'But it's very clear to us that in today's war of ecosystems, we've made a very clear decision to focus on Windows Phone with our Lumia product line. And it is with that that we will compete with competitors like Samsung and [Google's operating system] Android.'
Last I checked, Samsung's smartphones are out-selling the entire WP8 OS about 10:1, so that must be a pretty loose definition of 'compete'.
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Old 08-05-2013, 15:40
swordman
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Mr E has this himself to the mast and will go down with the ship rather than change direction now.
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Old 08-05-2013, 15:40
IvanIV
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Would be interesting to know how many shares Hannu Virtanen owns.
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Old 08-05-2013, 15:55
Zack06
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It's too late. They sealed their fate when they chained themselves to Microsoft and slagged off Android which has been going from strength to strength. I think that even if they switched to another ecosystem or changed their strategy, their brand name and hold over the market has diminished so much, that they would still not be successful.

Android has pretty much eaten up their feature phone market which is a key pillar of their strategy, and their high-end devices are also not competitive against the iPhone or a number of high-end Android phones, though Nokia have fared slightly better in this segment.

I just thought that choosing Windows Phone was a bizarre decision, Nokia needs backing and support that will push it forward into the market. Windows Phone is pushing no-one, HTC and Samsung are seeing far more success with their Android devices, and companies like LG and Asus have been pushed into the limelight by Android.

Windows Phone has no "it" device besides the Lumia, which is not doing well, and besides Nokia, no-one else is invested in the platform. For existing users of iOS and Android, I personally don't think that Windows Phone provides any incentive to switch.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:07
legends wear 7
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Well i have had iPhones and android phones, i currently have a Nokia windows phone 8 handset, honestly cant see me leaving WP8 now for a fair while, i love it and the Nokia build is great.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:49
rosetech
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While I think Nokia are making a mistake not considering Android, they are steadying the ship for now. I am assuming they are contractually tied in with Microsoft for a couple of years and so have no choice but to be exclusive.

If they did make an Android phone - again I would assume it would be decent build, although quite a few manufacturers have upped their game recently.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:47
gomezz
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The trouble started with the 5800 Music Express. It sounded great, but it was their first touchscreen and didn't work very well
You must have had a duff one. Mine worked (and still works as a backup) fine. On to a Lumia 820 now and it is the bee's knees.

I, for one, am glad to have a viable option that is not Apple or Android neither of which I would touch with a bargepole.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:58
alcockell
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And Maemo/Meego was a good ecosystem... Or if Android had been ported onto the N900 and N950 - would have been a no-brainer for me to have upgraded my N900 (still waiting until I've fully recovered from this cellulitis).

Was also useful having commandline access to the phone...
Actually the N900 was a damn good pocket computer...
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:14
Quackers
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I use to be a die hard Nokia user but no way am i going near Windows mobile. So unless they do an Android handset i will not even consider one. I will stick with my iPhone.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:17
moox
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Of course Elop isn't going to change - he was a Microsoft executive, and as soon as he came to Nokia he decided their future was in a Microsoft product.

If Nokia made an open Android phone with their classic prowess for hardware and design they'd probably sell well. HTC is a bit meh and Samsung is only interested in making plasticky phones with gimmicks and crappy TouchWiz.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:21
finbaar
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Of course Elop isn't going to change - he was a Microsoft executive, and as soon as he came to Nokia he decided their future was in a Microsoft product.

If Nokia made an open Android phone with their classic prowess for hardware and design they'd probably sell well. HTC is a bit meh and Samsung is only interested in making plasticky phones with gimmicks and crappy TouchWiz.
I have had three Nokia phones in the past, some flip thing a 6300 and a 5800 and none were any good. The 5800 was particulary horrendous. I do not understand the love for the company at all or the reputation they have for build quality - I remember trying a N95 and that was vey poorly put together.


We keep waiting for WP to catch on. But it never happens. There are some vocal fans on here but how they put up with the laggy interface (tap a tile then wait an age for those horrible flying animations to finish) lack of depth in app quality (apps get released but seemingly never get updated), lack of Google and terrible notifications is beyond me.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:53
IvanIV
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MS threw money at Nokia and got WP exclusivity from them for it. Nokia would need that money from somewhere else to be able to develop an Android smartphone. And Elop being an MS guy did not (want to) search anywhere else.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:56
IvanIV
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We keep waiting for WP to catch on. But it never happens. There are some vocal fans on here but how they put up with the laggy interface (tap a tile then wait an age for those horrible flying animations to finish) lack of depth in app quality (apps get released but seemingly never get updated), lack of Google and terrible notifications is beyond me.
Laggy interface? Try Android for that. The animations do not last a moment. Somebody must be really really in a hurry if that's considered a delay.
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Old 09-05-2013, 17:33
Step666
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You must have had a duff one. Mine worked (and still works as a backup) fine.
You must've had one of the few that wasn't terrible would be closer to the truth.
All of Nokia's S60 rel5 devices were plagued with issues - the N97, N97 Mini, 5800, 5230, 5530, X6. And they're just the ones I can remember dealing with problems with.


Actually the N900 was a damn good pocket computer...
...when they weren't shedding parts.


I do not understand the love for the company at all or the reputation they have for build quality - I remember trying a N95 and that was vey poorly put together.
The reputation for build quality seems to be held by people who never owned any of their handsets.
The number of American people I know who think Nokia is a byword for solidity, despite the fact not one of them ever owned or quite often had even seen a top-end Nokia handset from the N95 onwards, is mind-boggling.
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Old 09-05-2013, 17:59
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Nokia imho is probably the only manufacturer besides Sony and Apple that makes gorgeous looking handsets. Their build quaity easily surpasses that of the Galaxy ilk. I have seen some stunning handsets in recent months come from Nokia and Sony. The only way I could see Nokia entering the Android arena is if they could find a USP, I suspect they would take a similar line to that of Amazon and fork off and create its own version of Android. If Nokia did enter the Android arena, I would argue its the only company with enough R&D clout to truly offer an alternative to the behemoth that Samsung is becoming.

I want WinPho to succeed as it creates competition and offers an alternative to the humdrum of iOS and Android. If Nokia released an Android handset tomorrow with the same design as their Lumias I would have it in a heartbeat.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:54
clonmult
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And Maemo/Meego was a good ecosystem... Or if Android had been ported onto the N900 and N950 - would have been a no-brainer for me to have upgraded my N900 (still waiting until I've fully recovered from this cellulitis).

Was also useful having commandline access to the phone...
Actually the N900 was a damn good pocket computer...
Er ... Android has been ported to the N900.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:58
clonmult
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You must've had one of the few that wasn't terrible would be closer to the truth.
All of Nokia's S60 rel5 devices were plagued with issues - the N97, N97 Mini, 5800, 5230, 5530, X6. And they're just the ones I can remember dealing with problems with.
Nope, not all.

The 5800 was a mess. Lousy camera (they should have fitted the N73 unit instead of the pinhole they used), the interface was just plain confusing.

N97 had massive hardware and software issues.

N97 mini resolved most of the N97 hardware issues, and the firmware was way more reliable.

But the 5230 was irritatingly good - no major issues experienced on that (or at least very little chatter on boards, and mine ran perfectly).

They did sort out a lot of the software issues on these - but they had this stupid idea of keeping 100% backwards compatibility and each of these devices had parallel development of Symbian - massive waste of effort.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:33
IvanIV
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This may show that Lumias aren't that shit after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CSbd4s_dDWY
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:46
alcockell
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Er ... Android has been ported to the N900.
Yeah -but not in a productionised manner yet - isn't that the Jolla project?
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:50
clonmult
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Yeah -but not in a productionised manner yet - isn't that the Jolla project?
No, Jolla is the evolution/continuation of Meego with some of the original development team. They've taken the wonderfully fluid interface of the N9 and turned it into something quite possibly over complicated.

Nitdroid is only at 2.3.4, apparently fully working. At some point I should get myself an N900 just because they're so darned awesome.

Wouldn't have expected to see Android officially available on any Nokia product - but (apparently) they had it running on their hardware and it didn't run well, which is part of the reason why they went the WP route.
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:20
Minardi
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I've always had Nokia phones, from the 6680 right up to the 808 PureView. Favourite? N95 8GB. Anyway. I've got a Lumia 920. I hate to say it, because I didn't like Nokia's choice, but it's brilliant. I really like WP8. Some things drive me mad, but less so than things on Symbian did.

When I told my mates I was getting one, they slagged it off, and now they've had a go with it, several of them are going for one at upgrade time. WP8 is now at a do or die stage, it either has to sell alot more phones or it will be curtains for both Nokia and Microsoft with the platform. It's going to be very interesting.
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Old 10-05-2013, 13:43
clonmult
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I've always had Nokia phones, from the 6680 right up to the 808 PureView. Favourite? N95 8GB. Anyway. I've got a Lumia 920. I hate to say it, because I didn't like Nokia's choice, but it's brilliant. I really like WP8. Some things drive me mad, but less so than things on Symbian did.

When I told my mates I was getting one, they slagged it off, and now they've had a go with it, several of them are going for one at upgrade time. WP8 is now at a do or die stage, it either has to sell alot more phones or it will be curtains for both Nokia and Microsoft with the platform. It's going to be very interesting.
My issue with the 920 is the camera. Its still not as good as the N8. And it only records in mono, unlike the indecently good stereo of the 808.

I've only ever played briefly with WP8, and have found myself absolutely hating the interface. Strikes me as being different just to be different, not because its obviously better.

Agreed that its going to be interesting; MS definitely have the finances to keep going regardless, whereas Nokia don't.
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Old 10-05-2013, 15:05
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No, Jolla is the evolution/continuation of Meego with some of the original development team. They've taken the wonderfully fluid interface of the N9 and turned it into something quite possibly over complicated.

Nitdroid is only at 2.3.4, apparently fully working. At some point I should get myself an N900 just because they're so darned awesome.

Wouldn't have expected to see Android officially available on any Nokia product - but (apparently) they had it running on their hardware and it didn't run well, which is part of the reason why they went the WP route.
Didn't realise they had it fully working. Last time I read about it they were still struggling to get Voice calls to work.
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