Hello, I've never posted in the pets forum before but I'm a regular lurker.

I wonder if anyone has any advice on how to stop my dog barking in the garden? When I let him out he usually just mooches around for a wee while but if there are any neighbours in their garden he barks incessantly even if he can't see them but can hear them or if the sheep in the field up the road 'baa' he does the same.
The only way he'll come in is if I shake his biscuits and shout him but then I don't want him to think he's getting a biscuit for barking iyswim.

Any advice?

Duncan used to do that so he was leaded in the garden and supervised at all times. Annoying sometimes but better to annoy me I thought than the neighbours who had every right to be in their garden.

I have a neighbour who has 5 big dogs who bark continuously in the garden drives us insane I have reported her to the council but you at least seem concerned about your dog barking and I thankyou for that and wish more dog owners were responsible

my husband used to squirt water at our dog when he was younger and barking out the back, think he (my husband ) got the tip from the dog whisperer, our dog is now perfectly behaved and quiet. everyone always comments on how good he is. An empty fairy liquid bottle.

Don't do this. The dog whisperer is the most appalling trainer, just watch some of his vicious techniques on YouTube and you'll see why. He specialises on physical punishment, be it water, hitting, prong or spray collars. Your dog is well behaved because he's fearful of you, not through good training.

Op- you need to remember that barking and defending the home is natural behaviour, telling him off or punishing him is just confusing for him. You've identified what's causing it (neighbours), so it should be easy enough to treat, as long as you are willing to put in effort. You need to reward the good behaviour, in this case not barking when they are outside, and ignoring the undesired behaviour (barking)

To do this I'd recommend a clicker if you've not already got one. You need to 'charge' the clicker before doing any training, which basically means getting him to associate the click with 'good' there's lots of videos on you tube of how to do this, basically drop a treat, when he eats it click, over and over again , then move it onto a already known behaviour, ie sit - every time he sits, click then give him a treat. The clicker is good as the sound is clear and consistent, it doesnt mean you cant praise aswell, but its a good basic starting point, most dogs respond well.

One it's associated with 'good boy' you can move onto the garden. Go out with him when your neighbours are there, ask him to sit or lay (whichever you prefer), when he does and is not barking (as usually when sitting the stop) reward him, you ca introduce a word such as quiet or calm if that's easier, ou reward him every time he's calm, at first it'll be for a second or two, then a bit longer, then longer, then once he's got it when your in the garden, do it from the door, then with you inside him out....and so on.

Like I said its hard work to redirect barking, Victoria still well always says you should say thank you, as they are protecting you, and the more calm you are with the situation, the calmer they'll be.

It may also be worth explaining to your neighbours what you are trying to do, so they know your aware.

Give it a treat or something he can mate with.

Great advice. Should never use punishment to train dogs. We used the click technique when training our dog. He became the most obedient and wonderful dog I have ever known. Sadly he has now passed away but he lived to a grand old age.

Thank you all so much for the advice

I think I'll get a clicker that sounds like a good way of training. The thing is he was super quick to learn all the basics - paw/sit/lie down etc (I've even managed to train him to get fake shot and he puts his paws up then falls to the floor when he gets 'shot' haha) but this is something we just can't master.

Thank you all again

We have a rule, two barks and then you're in. The dog soon learns, but you have to be consistent. I am very strict with the dog because I cannot bear the barking and I do not want to upset the neighbours.

Very pleased to hear that dog owners are concerned about this because it can just about drive you insane. It's as if a dog's bark is programmed to cut through to your very soul. There used to be someone living about 200 yards away who used to go out all day and leave the dog in the garden when I was working from home. It reached the point where I could have happily shot it, but I reported it to the Environmental Health Office and they gave the owner an ultimatum. The nuisance disappeared shortly afterwards.

This is the approach I am going for at the moment. It is effective but as you mention, you have to be strict and keep it up, it is me that lets this slip sometimes.

The problem we have is that we live in a National Park, all the tourist get off the ferry and gawp at the garden as they walk past. If they are other dog owners they usually say it's ok and that my dog is only doing his job. In fact a woman told me off last week for telling him off for doing his job.

But if they are not dog owners then I can get all sorts of abuse, which I can understand as it can be quite shocking and a lot of the tourists are older, he could easily cause a heart attack. He once almost took out an entire asian family who all leapt back into the road as they would rather have taken their chances with an oncoming tractor than a springer/cocker cross behind a metal gate.

this is a punishment based system though, which may work in the short term, but long term its not really viable, plus dogs cant count What you are probably going to do is reinforce the barking, he'll think that he needs to bark to come in, which is the exact opposite to what you want.

If you want to bring him in when he barks, then thats doable, but do it so he gets praise and rewards for coming in when NOT barking.

Sorry to disagree, but this is a system we've used with our dogs over the years. The dog soon realises that they're not outside to bark. Bringing them in and praising them when they come is not a punishment. I think you're taking the idea of what punishes a dog to a stupid level.

Our dogs are very happy well adjusted animals that don't bark much. If someone comes to the door they bark like crazy and that's what we want. If they're out in the garden they're allowed the odd bark only. It definitely works and to say it's punishing the dogs is beyond daft. It works long term, and everyone is happy, including the dog (and the neighbours).

please don't accuse me of being stupid or 'daft'. Just because I don't agree with your ideals, does not make me stupid, nor my ideas stupid.

Let me explain what a 'punishment' is in animal training terms. It is an action that results in displeasure. It does not have to be physical or verbal, it can be taking away an activity/action that the dog likes to perform - such as being outside. It is EXACTLY what you are doing. The dog is outside, he barks, you bring him in as a punishment. No its not equal to hitting or shouting at him, but in the dogs mind it is still a negative result of that behaviour. If you want to use that method - fine, but don't try and paste it up as something its not.

Like I said all you will be doing is reinforcing the barking behaviour (having the complete opposite effect), the dog will associate being taken inside and being praised with barking, so if they want to come in or have attention - what do you think will happen? They'll bark.

I didn't accuse you of being stupid or daft. What I actually said was saying it punishes a dog takes it to a stupid level, and saying it's punishing the dogs is beyond daft, spot the difference!

I could just as quickly take exception to you saying that I'm punishing my dogs, but I don't because we're adults having a discussion. All views are welcome and my view is that bringing a dog inside for barking is ok and it's plain daft to say it's a punishment.

If it wasn't working I might listen to you, but it works actually and it's a system we used with a variety of dogs over the years.

When the dog barks, we call her in and praise her for coming in. That's how recall works, the dog associates coming back to you with praise. The barking was the thing that happened before the recall.

At any time in a dog's life you might want to call them for whatever reason, and that's just fine. It's necessary to have to dog come to you whenever you call it, for it's own safety sometimes. It's most certainly not a punishment to have a dog that's completely reliable with recall. As I said, you're taking this punishment thing to a stupid level.

smacking a dog on the nose for toiletting in the house WORKEd for many - but there are better systems in place now, prong collars and spray collars, work but are not the best method.

I am not likening you bringing your dogs in to those, but I am saying that just because a method works doesn't mean its the most effective one.

You said that you are rewarding your dog for coming back to you, that is as you say - recall, but what you are also doing (as I said in my past 2 posts) is letting the dog associate the barking = recall = praise. If thats a good or bad thing is up to you - I'm not saying its bad, but then you can't get frustrated if the dog barks to come in or barks to get that recall (not saying YOU do, but the royal you). If your dogs are trained to this method and it works for you, fine. But as a new training regime it would not be recommend by any behaviourists worth their salt, for the reasons I've said above. It may be a great system for you and your dogs, but in general ignoring the undesired behaviour and rewarding the desired is the best way to go.

Our dogs, as I said in a previous post, hardly bark at all, apart from when someone comes to the door. I completely disagree that you're praising the barking, because if you were you'd have dogs that barked.

It's like saying "when my dog runs off to chase the deer in the park I call him back, but ooops I've taught him to chase the deer, because I've praised him for the recall". You see what you're actually doing is praising the recall and preventing the undesired behaviour by effectively ignoring it.

no the deer analogy is different, as they are running and get recalled, and are rewarded for the doing as they are asked, you will have trained them on recall first I presume, and use that trained word when recalling them. So they associate that with the recall, not the deer. If you were to try and train them on recall when they are chasing a deer (firstly good luck ) and secondly - yes in theory you would be rewarding the chase - this is how sheep dogs, hunting dogs etc are trained.

so when you call the dog in, what are you doing? Recalling it as pre-trained? In which case you are not addressing the barking at all, all you are doing in bringing a recall command in, which they are trained to respond to. If you are calling them because they bark and treat them every time they come in because you've called them, then dogs are not stupid and they will associate the barking with the treat. The only way to ensure that is the recall they are associating with the treat is to do it when they are not barking as well.

You say they don't bark, but you also say you have a 2 bark rule, so perhaps the reason they don't bark is because you are calling them in after 2 barks? Try leaving them when they bark, see how much they do it then.

I am not saying you should retrain your dog, but you need to be able to look at these situations from the dogs perspective - it helps with new training and behaviour problems. thats all.

Different things work for different dogs, IMO you both have good ways that obviously work for your dogs. The two barks and in worked for Mollie and simple shhhh works for Betty, putting Duncan on his lead and escourting him out worked for him.

I agree every dog is different, and turqiose and I are never going to agree on training but that doesn't mean either of us are wrong, we just have different approaches. I would just be hesitant to train a new dog in this way without trying positive reinforcement first (like my post up the top), if that doesn't work, sure give other methods a shot

I suppose calling a dog into the house when they're barking, and then praising them for the recall, is actually a distraction technique. Also known to work really well with behaviour management, especially with toddlers intent on a tantrum.

It certainly isn't a punishment, which is what was stated earlier in the thread, far from it.

My dogs stay out in the garden for as long as they want to, with the odd bark, but are brought in when they continue barking (which doesn't happen very often, as they're trained not to).

I just wish my neighbours would bring their Jack Russells in when they bark. They just let them bark, no consideration!

Its either a distraction technique - where you are praising them for something else or you've trained them not to bark - it cant possibly be both - THATs my point. You said earlier you called them in after 2 barks. There was nothing about praise until after I said it was a punishment. Taking away the pleasure (ie calling the dog in from its play time in the garden) you are punishing the dog for a behaviour. Distracting and rewarding a different behaviour is a totally different technique and I agree its a very good one, it is also what I told the op to do in that post waaaaayyyyy up there ^^^^^^^ - just in a different way. I suggested the use of a word or a command (ie sitting) to distract the dog from barking, then rewarding that behaviour, OR finding a word that is linked directly to not barking and rewarding the dog for that.

I think we are at cross purposes. like I said I understood from your original post that you punished the dog for barking by bring it in (again - punish in human terms is different to dog terms, this is the equivalent of taking a child home for being naughty at the park), what you've then gone on to say is that you use the recall and praise him for that, which is is distraction as you say. However you need to be sure that you are making it clear its recall you are using (as recall is usually used outside the home), and this is easily done by using the command in a non-barking situation, which you probably do to get his/her attention when in the home or garden anyway.

Like i said though - you've either trained the dogs not to bark in the garden (in which case its not recall you are using as a distraction technique, you are training the dogs that if they bark they will be called in - therefore a negative reinforcement technique) or you have used distraction techniques to distract the dog, thus stopping barking (this is not training them not to bark, it is just sidetracking them - its not teaching them anything, its just stopping the behaviour)

I would like to clarify that i am not saying in any way, shape or form that in general negative reinforcement is bad. I completely agree that negative reinforcement is needed in many situations, for example bite inhibitiion (yes I remember THAT thread ) - the yelp that the human gives to say 'that hurts' is a negative reinforcement - its a quick, sharp noise that is unpleasant to the dog (probably emotionally in this case - they don't like feeling like they've hurt you, presumably anyway!). Similarly in the barking example - if the dog is not responding to positive reinforcement then perhaps a negative reinforcement technique is perferrable if its a case of HAVING to stop the barking, for the neighbours sakes or for the dogs (ie when they are under threat of being taken away). Negative reinforcement is NOT acceptable (to me) where physical punishment, shouting or removal of essential items is invovled - i.e. taking food away for bad behaviour, prong collars, hitting of the dog (ala cesar), electric collars (Especially when used for barking ) etc

To clarify - a 'punishment' is not just a physical thing. the word has many negative associations , I should have phrased my original post better (forgetting I'm not conversing with other behaviourists, therefore the word is not read in the same way), as I think thats probably whats got the most reaction here, you could say my use of the word 'punishment' is actually acting as a negative word, or punishment for you turquoise- it make you feel bad and defensive.

Punishment in behaviour terms is just a negative that the dog associates with an action - ie: the yelp is the punishment during bite inhibition training. It doesn't HURT the dog (which is what most people think when they hear punishment), its not a massive bad thing. its just an action that promotes a negative association with something (be that a person, object, behaviour etc)

I'm done on here. I have dogs that don't bark much at all, nothing else to say really, job done.

if the sheep in the field up the road 'baa' he does the same.

Ha ha this bit made me

i forgot the question !!