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Old 11-05-2013, 23:38
NightFox_Dancer
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Hi. I have an old style Panasonic CRT Television Model: TX-21CK1 (I can't afford a flat screen at the moment!) and a problem I have which is very annoying is that the picture has a tendency to stutter at fast movement. I have a Freeview box, if that holds any relevance whatsoever.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:15
gds1972
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If the TV has any picture enhancing feature turn them off and see what happens.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:57
mac2708
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I may be wrong but it seems unlikely that a TV of this age would have any of the 'picture enhancement' features found in modern flat-screen TVs
http://www.superfi.co.uk/P-5408-disc...elevision.aspx

The fault is described as sounding like this
http://lcdtvbuyingguide.com/hdtv/motion-lag.html

Does the same fault appear when using a DVD player as well as the Freeview box?
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:56
NightFox_Dancer
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I may be wrong but it seems unlikely that a TV of this age would have any of the 'picture enhancement' features found in modern flat-screen TVs
http://www.superfi.co.uk/P-5408-disc...elevision.aspx

The fault is described as sounding like this
http://lcdtvbuyingguide.com/hdtv/motion-lag.html

Does the same fault appear when using a DVD player as well as the Freeview box?
I don't use a DVD player as I don't care for films much.

I had a feeling my TV was a little too outdated to have that feature, which is unusual because I've had television sets just as old as the one I have now yet I never had this problem with them.

That link is a pretty accurate description of the problem I'm having, I didn't know it was that common. Although it seems to refer mainly to flat screens.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:29
mac2708
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As you need to use a Freeview box (or satellite) to be able to watch any TV on the set, have you or can you try a different Freeview box? Or even borrow a DVD player?
It's grasping at straws really but, I suppose, anything's worth a try and it's a process of elimination to see if the same problem occurs.

Yes, it mainly is a flat-screen problem and I can't say that I've ever seen the same effect on a CRT
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:45
NightFox_Dancer
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Not sure where I could borrow a DVD player and I only have one Freeview box. Hmm.

Does it have anything to do with the sharpness of the picture? Obviously modern flat screens have a much clearer picture definition than CRTs so would that be why the problem is more commonly associated with the former?
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:00
mac2708
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Does it have anything to do with the sharpness of the picture? Obviously modern flat screens have a much clearer picture definition than CRTs so would that be why the problem is more commonly associated with the former?
Thiese should help explain why it can be a problem with flat-panel TVs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_motion_blur
" Even in situations when pixel response time is very short, motion blur remains a problem because their pixels remain lit, unlike CRT phosphors that merely flash briefly"

http://www.overstock.com/guides/faqs...n-blur-and-tvs
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:18
NightFox_Dancer
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Thiese should help explain why it can be a problem with flat-panel TVs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_motion_blur
" Even in situations when pixel response time is very short, motion blur remains a problem because their pixels remain lit, unlike CRT phosphors that merely flash briefly"

http://www.overstock.com/guides/faqs...n-blur-and-tvs
How very odd.

What if I reduce the sharpness of my TV picture? It's currently set to the highest possible setting, would that make a difference?
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:35
mac2708
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Give it a try
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:52
NightFox_Dancer
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Just did it, not sure how I can tell tell if it will make a difference or not. The problem most recently occurred when watching Doctor Who last week.
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Old 12-05-2013, 14:10
mac2708
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...The problem most recently occurred when watching Doctor Who last week.
So, in a week's viewing it's happened once.
Does the problem not happen on other programmes such as fast action films, sport etc.

....a problem I have which is very annoying is that the picture has a tendency to stutter at fast movement.
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Old 12-05-2013, 14:21
NightFox_Dancer
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So, in a week's viewing it's happened once.
Does the problem not happen on other programmes such as fast action films, sport etc.
I don't watch sport, although I sometimes watch Music Video channels and haven't seen any faults there. I didn't watch Doctor Who last night so I couldn't tell if the problem would have persisted or not. Not sure why it happened during last week's episode though so I'm a bit stumped. It also happened during an episode of Family Guy.

I've reduced the sharpness and changed the colour balance to warm.
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Old 12-05-2013, 14:40
mac2708
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Some music videos can be fairly fast action especially with quick cutting in sequences so the problem should be likely to occur there too.
How long ago was the episode of Family Guy shown and was it only the one episode?

If the occurrences are so infrequent it may simply be a problem in transmission but you could always try previous suggestions as I'm now out of them.
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Old 12-05-2013, 14:47
NightFox_Dancer
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Some music videos can be fairly fast action especially with quick cutting in sequences so the problem should be likely to occur there too.
How long ago was the episode of Family Guy shown and was it only the one episode?

If the occurrences are so infrequent it may simply be a problem in transmission but you could always try previous suggestions as I'm now out of them.
Firstly I want to thank you for helping me out. Ive got the 4music on right now just looking out for anything and so far I haven't spotted anything.

The Family Guy episode was around 20-25 minutes and I know they tend to use fast animation from time to time, I think my best bet is to put the sharpness on a low setting so the picture is softer. I'm no expert but I think that is the closest I can come to solving the problem.
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Old 13-05-2013, 12:51
NightFox_Dancer
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I've just has a thought. My Freeview box model is Dion VSTBAW10 which is now discontinued. Could it actually be my Freeview box as opposed to my actual Television?
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Old 13-05-2013, 14:04
mac2708
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I've just has a thought. My Freeview box model is Dion VSTBAW10 which is now discontinued. Could it actually be my Freeview box as opposed to my actual Television?
Which is why I suggested in post 5 to try/borrow another Freeview box.
"....can you try a different Freeview box? "

BTW - I didn't ask how long Family Guy ran for I asked "How long ago was the episode of Family Guy shown and was it only the one episode?"
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Old 13-05-2013, 18:45
NightFox_Dancer
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Which is why I suggested in post 5 to try/borrow another Freeview box.
"....can you try a different Freeview box? "

BTW - I didn't ask how long Family Guy ran for I asked "How long ago was the episode of Family Guy shown and was it only the one episode?"
Sorry about that! I'm getting a new Freeview box tomorrow because my current one is an old model so hopefully a more up to date one may sort out the problem. *fingers crossed*
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Old 13-05-2013, 20:57
AidanLunn
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Either that or something in your local vicinity has recently started emitting RF interference, causing the old Freeview box to continually glitch.
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Old 13-05-2013, 22:02
mac2708
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Either that or something in your local vicinity has recently started emitting RF interference, causing the old Freeview box to continually glitch.
But is it continually glitching?
That was my first impression but evidently the last time it happened was on May 5th during an episode of Dr. Who and the only other time mentioned was during an episode of Family Guy shown at some time (?) in the past.

Hopefully the new box may cure the problem but it's so infrequent it could be anything and intermittent faults are the worst to solve.
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Old 13-05-2013, 22:15
NightFox_Dancer
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The Family Guy episode was 'Meg & Quagmire' back in January the particular scene was at 53 seconds into this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T7dq6jeFtw (That's not my recording, it's just an example I found on YouTube)

I've also read about CRTs having lower refresh rates although as I stated earlier, this is the first time I have had this problem with any CRT and by process of elimination it's the only time this has happened since using the Freeview box.

And no it's not constantly glitching, it's only during rapid movements. I know it isn't a frequent problem but I'd rather just not have it at all as it can really spoil my enjoyment of a program.
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Old 13-05-2013, 22:23
mac2708
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Good luck and let us know what happens - even though the original problem only seems to have happened twice in four months
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:54
AidanLunn
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And no it's not constantly glitching, it's only during rapid movements. I know it isn't a frequent problem but I'd rather just not have it at all as it can really spoil my enjoyment of a program.
Then the interpolation stage on the output of your old digibox was faulty, did it still do it after mains power being removed and then replaced?

Usually, with many digiboxes, they do have "stutters", "nicks" and "glitches" like that you describe. Usually power cycling it (as I described above) cures the problem.
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Old 14-05-2013, 19:57
35321
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I've just has a thought. My Freeview box model is Dion VSTBAW10 which is now discontinued. Could it actually be my Freeview box as opposed to my actual Television?
Is there by any chance the menus of that box have an option to change the output video between PAL and NTSC? . If there is and it is set at NTSC (which is 30 frames per second) it will lead to 'jerky' effects during movement - the box simply repeats every fifth frame to get 30 FPS from the native 25 FPS.

(Your TV may be capable of displaying NTSC via SCART in colour, older TVs would usually give a black and white picture with wrong vertical height with NTSC,)

I came across this manual for the box:
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/usermanua...1324036969.pdf
but it is unclear from that if an NTSC output option exists or not (very common on non-Freesat FTA satellite boxes)
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Old 14-05-2013, 21:11
AidanLunn
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Is there by any chance the menus of that box have an option to change the output video between PAL and NTSC? . If there is and it is set at NTSC (which is 30 frames per second) it will lead to 'jerky' effects during movement - the box simply repeats every fifth frame to get 30 FPS from the native 25 FPS.

(Your TV may be capable of displaying NTSC via SCART in colour, older TVs would usually give a black and white picture with wrong vertical height with NTSC,)

I came across this manual for the box:
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/usermanua...1324036969.pdf
but it is unclear from that if an NTSC output option exists or not (very common on non-Freesat FTA satellite boxes)
The reason why is because most small UK digiboxes do *not* output NTSC. They're so small and cheap that there's no point.

I also own the box in question - any problems with that relating to corrupted software on it - out come the mains plug, then in it goes again.
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Old 15-05-2013, 14:36
NightFox_Dancer
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Problem solved! And all I had to do was buy a higher standard (yet very cheap!), up to date Freeview box. I've also noticed other problems I was having such as split second sound dropouts (which were very frequent) have also gone.

Music videos run much more smoothly now.
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