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What was so bad about series 5?


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Old 16-05-2013, 22:09
Scorpio2
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Lots of people say that they felt really cold during series 5 and didn't really like it. But I thought it was no different to series 1/4 and series 6 in my opinion was very cold and didn't feel like Doctor Who at all.

I understand that series 6 could have been a turrn off but I thought series 5 was great.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:12
mikey1980
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Lots of people say that they felt really cold during series 5 and didn't really like it. But I thought it was no different to series 1/4 and series 6 in my opinion was very cold and didn't feel like Doctor Who at all.

I understand that series 6 could have been a turrn off but I thought series 5 was great.
Absolutely nothing wrong with series 5. It was series 6 that was the problem - overly complicated and conveluted.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:15
tysonstorm
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I loved Series 5, the only one episode that stunk was Victory of the Daleks, however compared to Series 7 VotD comes out looking like a classic episode.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:18
mikey1980
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Amy's Choice and Vincent And The Doctor were two of the standout episodes for me during series 5. In fact, Vincent And The Doctor was one of the most moving of all new Who stories for me.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:25
Theophile
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Your answer in a single word: Moffat.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:25
tomwozhere
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I loved Series 5, I also loved Series 6, not over complicated or confusing, it was interesting and exciting. I've loved Series 7 as well.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:26
codename_47
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Well looking back on it now, Matt looks farrrrr too young and I honestly think it was a bit of a mistake to take him that early.

Perhaps they should've gone with someone else and instead brought Matt in now as the 12th or possibly 13 Doctor in a few years time.

The stuff with him and River looks very out of place now. There's Mrs Robinson and then there's pushing it a bit,
Sometimes, as much as we are willing to suspend our disbelief,
sometimes real life means certain avenues shouldn't be traveled down.

Also Amy is a gobby, sarcy cow to everyone she meets and despite looking great isn't a very warm companion for the viewer to root for.

This, coupled with a dire, boring Silurian 2 parter and a finale that disappeared slightly up its own backside while still not really answering what the hell was going on (so....who WAS that voice then? Who made the explosion? etc) meant series 5 was a bit of a let down, PERSONALLY.

Wasn't all bad though. It had DALEKS. For a bit...until they became crap
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:27
Banks246
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Well I have loved every single season so far.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:43
mikey1980
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Well looking back on it now, Matt looks farrrrr too young and I honestly think it was a bit of a mistake to take him that early.

Perhaps they should've gone with someone else and instead brought Matt in now as the 12th or possibly 13 Doctor in a few years time.

The stuff with him and River looks very out of place now. There's Mrs Robinson and then there's pushing it a bit,
Sometimes, as much as we are willing to suspend our disbelief,
sometimes real life means certain avenues shouldn't be traveled down.
I was under the impression that Moffat and his team had been expecting to cast an older doctor - and, I'm speculating here, but perhaps Moffat had a different, older future doctor in mind when he first wrote River Song back in 2008. Granted, he wasn't the show-runner at the time, so it's speculation...

However Matt Smith blew them away at his audition and got the role.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I'd certainly have shelved the River Song storyline, and either left it as an ambigious off-screen adventure (my preference), or left it until an older doctor was cast in the future. As good as Smith and Alex Kingston are as actors, they don't work as a screen couple in the slightest.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:48
Banks246
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I was under the impression that Moffat and his team had been expecting to cast an older doctor - and, I'm speculating here, but perhaps Moffat had a different, older future doctor in mind when he first wrote River Song back in 2008. Granted, he wasn't the show-runner at the time, so it's speculation...

However Matt Smith blew them away at his audition and got the role.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I'd certainly have shelved the River Song storyline, and either left it as an ambigious off-screen adventure (my preference), or left it until an older doctor was cast in the future. As good as Smith and Alex Kingston are as actors, they don't work as a screen couple in the slightest.
Matt Smith auditioned for the role of Watson in Sherlock and they thought he was too wacky, so they put him forward for the Doctor instead.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:54
JDEsseintes
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The only standout problem I could find with Series 5 was the over-reliance of the 'time crack' arc. Everything else was fine, I think.

That and a case of 'New Doctoritus', where, due to the episodes being filmed out of sequence, Matt's characterisation changed almost every episode. Same goes for the writing - it felt like Gatiss in particular was still writing for the Tenth Doctor, in terms of dialogue. Even a couple of Moffat's episodes (specifically the ones that he had completed before Matt started filming, or was even cast) had characterisations closer to Nine and Ten. Not really a criticism, it was natural - the dust had yet to settle.

In hindsight, Series 5 feels like a hybrid of Series 1 and 6. A combination of uncomplicated, low-key stories (very refreshing after Series 4 and the specials) and ambitious, occasionally perplexing plot developments.

I have fond memories of it. I certainly enjoyed it more than 6 and 7(A&B).

We need more low-key, I think. Amy's Choice is still one of my favourites.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:54
mikey1980
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Matt Smith auditioned for the role of Watson in Sherlock and they thought he was too wacky, so they put him forward for the Doctor instead.
No problem with him being the doctor, I like him. But the River Song story arc has never been a good fit with his doctor due to his relatively youthful appearance.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:56
Banks246
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No problem with him being the doctor, I like him. But the River Song story arc has never been a good fit with his doctor due to his relatively youthful appearance.
Personally I preferred River in the Silence of the Library.

Now she is just a walking talking sexual innuendo.

She still has really good moments, but she is nowhere near as good.

Not her fault mind.
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Old 16-05-2013, 22:58
LivingDestiny
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Amy's Choice and Vincent And The Doctor were two of the standout episodes for me during series 5. In fact, Vincent And The Doctor was one of the most moving of all new Who stories for me.
Agreed!

my least favourite episode of series 5 was probably the Silurian two parter which, lets be honest, is a good story. That says it all really. Series 5 is my favourite series.

Series 6 is where it all changed but not for anything bad, it just took the show in a fresh new direction.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:06
codename_47
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Agreed!

my least favourite episode of series 5 was probably the Silurian two parter which, lets be honest, is a good story. That says it all really. Series 5 is my favourite series.

Series 6 is where it all changed but not for anything bad, it just took the show in a fresh new direction.
The silurian 2 parter I just found not only boring but so full of Doctor Who cliches it was almost as if it was a contest winner from a young fan rather than a full fledged episode.

Threat on Earth. Check
Companion separated from Doctor. Check
Extremist on the alien side demands total war immediately Check
Someone on Human side pushed to extreme lengths to show the ugly side of humanity. Check.
Doctor enraged at both sides Check
Both sides realise they can be nasty to one another but learn to put aside their differences Check.
Surprise death out of left field when extremist character cannot deal with the peaceful resolution and demands vengance, Check

It just felt like something that had been done 20 thousand times before in better episodes.

The only thing of interest was the stuff at the end with the Crack really.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:15
tomwozhere
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:20
R.E.D
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Lots of people say that they felt really cold during series 5 and didn't really like it..
I think, when people look back at Steven Moffats first Season of Doctor Who as they will be - they'll be absolutely stunned at what they missed.

Seriously. You have probably never seen such a balls-out genius display of total brinkmanship in your entire life - and likely as not never will again. Really, Moffat raised the bar when it comes to ballsy.

It's stunning what he actually did. Words genuinely can't begin to describe how stunning - and I'm great with words.

Savour it when you figure it out. 20 years from now you'll be telling your grand kids about how you watched it.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:21
Granny McSmith
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Series 5, let's see....that was the one where Amy miraculously knew that the beast below would be a goodie because she knew the Doctor so well...though, in fact, she had scarcely met him.

The one with the human bomb which could turn itself off when it thought about lurve. (Give me strength!)

The excruciatingly boring Silurian thing. The less boring but still not exciting enough Angels thing.

The passable but not very exciting Vampires in Venice and Amy's Choice.

Some good stuff - Vincent (Though I now think it a bit over-emotional), The Eleventh Hour.

The Pandorica Opens was one of the best episodes I've ever seen, but was very badly let down by The Big Bang.

Strangely, The Lodger, which I wasn't keen on at the time is the only episode (apart from TEH and TPO) that I would watch again. And even then I might not.

Saving grace of the series? Matt was wonderful. River was good. Amy was OK. But Rory was the sweetest thing ever.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:26
Tom Tit
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I'm getting really sick of threads like this which lead off with a presumptuous supposition.

Nothing was 'so bad' about it. It was just like all the others; thematically, tonally, content-wise. Anything else really is projected by people to justify their own whims and mood changes with the show. People get bored of the format and instead of recognizing that they erroneously say the show has changed in some way. They project their own changing relationship with the show onto the show itself.

The same thing is happening with the current series - people's judgement of it is being affected by their dissatisfaction with what is going on production-wise.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:26
Banks246
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Series 5, let's see....that was the one where Amy miraculously knew that the beast below would be a goodie because she knew the Doctor so well...though, in fact, she had scarcely met him.

The one with the human bomb which could turn itself off when it thought about lurve. (Give me strength!)

The excruciatingly boring Silurian thing. The less boring but still not exciting enough Angels thing.

The passable but not very exciting Vampires in Venice and Amy's Choice.

Some good stuff - Vincent (Though I now think it a bit over-emotional), The Eleventh Hour.

The Pandorica Opens was one of the best episodes I've ever seen, but was very badly let down by The Big Bang.

Strangely, The Lodger, which I wasn't keen on at the time is the only episode (apart from TEH and TPO) that I would watch again. And even then I might not.

Saving grace of the series? Matt was wonderful. River was good. Amy was OK. But Rory was the sweetest thing ever.
I could do what you just did probably for every season of Doctor who, it's just a case of putting a negative spin on something.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:38
Ash_735
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Not much, a few dud episodes but for a lot of people it was the scary change, not only did we have a New Doctor, but new titles, new TARDIS, new showrunner, new companion, new production style, etc, not to mention it was the first series geared towards HD (only the specials were HD before that and a lot of attempts to hide current sets that didn't look good), and hell, even Murray Gold himself changed things up (for the better IMO), so for current era fans at the time who were so used to this show to suddenly have it, well, let's regenerate, caused a bit of a weird "this doesn't feel right" feeling surrounding Series 5, but going back now to watch it, it remains up there as still very good with just a few dud episodes.

I will say this, it feels like there's something missing from Series 7B, I don't know what it is, but Series 5 - 7A just felt, well, larger, like it was aiming much higher, the episodes set in America, actual on location shoots, etc, they really pushed the boat out for this era, which is a shame because a lot of the British viewers hated it and often accused it of being too complicated, so now it feels like any non-Moffat episode is aiming low as not confuse even the simplest of people who might accidentally tune in.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:44
November_Rain
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Series 5, let's see....that was the one where Amy miraculously knew that the beast below would be a goodie because she knew the Doctor so well...though, in fact, she had scarcely met him.

The one with the human bomb which could turn itself off when it thought about lurve. (Give me strength!)

The excruciatingly boring Silurian thing. The less boring but still not exciting enough Angels thing.

The passable but not very exciting Vampires in Venice and Amy's Choice.

Some good stuff - Vincent (Though I now think it a bit over-emotional), The Eleventh Hour.

The Pandorica Opens was one of the best episodes I've ever seen, but was very badly let down by The Big Bang.

Strangely, The Lodger, which I wasn't keen on at the time is the only episode (apart from TEH and TPO) that I would watch again. And even then I might not.

Saving grace of the series? Matt was wonderful. River was good. Amy was OK. But Rory was the sweetest thing ever.
I agree with most of the points raised here. Though I have enjoyed series 5 more on repeat viewings, it's still one of my last favourites since the relaunch, for reasons illustrated above.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:46
SuperDude95
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I loved Series 5. I hate Series 6 though.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:46
laurielou
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No problem with him being the doctor, I like him. But the River Song story arc has never been a good fit with his doctor due to his relatively youthful appearance.
Y'see, I actually was surprised at how well i felt it worked given the real-life age difference. Tbh, I found I didnt really notice it that much in the show, and thats mainly a credit to Matt Smith I think. I am not a huge River fan though...I find her character a bit two dimensional.

I thought series 5 was pretty good all in all, although not entirely satisfying. I think there are still some threads hanging I'd like to see tied up - and by the way, what WAS the thing from The Eleventh Hour that Moffat said we wouldn't believe he'd got away with putting in? Was it the staircase?
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:49
TheSilentFez
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Series 5 is my favourite ever Doctor Who series.
Series 6 was good too, but I have to say that it was a bit of a mess...
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