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Old 16-05-2013, 22:31
chopoff
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So Nintendo have begun to mark videos uploaded to YouTube containing footage of Nintendo games as matching their copyright and IP.

That therefore means instead of the share of advertising revenue going to the YouTube channel owner it goes to Nintendo.

Apparently this has upset a lot of 'Let's Play'ers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22552756

What do you think?

I think Nintendo is within every right to do this. People are making money from IP that they do not own.

I think that giving hints, tips, tricks, secrets all that kind of stuff is a good resource and if I were Nintendo I would want those videos out there, but the creators of those videos should be doing it to help fellow gamers out, not just to make a quick buck.
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Old 16-05-2013, 23:43
Ash_735
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It's a grey area, yes, it's Nintendo's IP's, but for a lot of Let's Plays the person would give a commentary or notes in areas to provide entertainment, just look at any Total Biscuit video, he digs deep to find all sorts of games to play and then do videos, and in the end (especially in regards to indies) it boosts sales of the game in a large way.

The backlash of this is that these people who do LP stuff on YouTube will just simply refuse to do Nintendo games, giving them even LESS exposure, in an area they're already lacking in, it's weird to see Nintendo being, well, Sony era-2006.
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Old 17-05-2013, 01:30
Chparmar
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How about 'Let's Players' getting a damm proper job and not earning any cash from other people's property.

It's also the case that MSFT has the same policy and countless of other companies. You Tube is full of copyright claims; would have thought other places would be more suited to avoid copyright, but of course other sites don't pay!
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Old 17-05-2013, 01:52
Ash_735
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How about 'Let's Players' getting a damm proper job and not earning any cash from other people's property.
Well that could be applied to ANY role in the entertainment industry really, why don't Radio DJ's get a proper job instead of sitting around and playing songs from a computer and talking between them!

It's just a different form of entertainment, these people build an audience, offer insight from a gamers point of view, and they're actual gamers, so things don't get sugar coated, hell TotalBiscuit is watched by thousands because of how harsh he will be on a game if for example they've done a crappy PC port or made stupid gameplay choices.

There's plenty of Music Reviewer channels, film reviewer channels, etc, who all do pretty much the same thing, it's an easy way to do a show how you want and tailor it to a specific audience and still make a profit on it. Think of it this way, we never see any gaming shows on TV anymore that are, they just get canned for low ratings and other stuff, but for Let's Plays, just a few thousand loyal fans is all a person needs to keep their channel going to make more shows.

Seems to me that you're angry at them for doing what they want and still making money off it, which seems a little unfair, hell, there's always the kind of dream jobs we'd like in life, getting paid to sit around and listen to music/watch films/play games is probably up there for most. And that's the beauty of it, there's that many people doing it, if you don't like one, you don't have to watch them, just try one of the many others until you find someone who's more in tune with your tastes.
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Old 17-05-2013, 14:44
Prebono
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I don't really see what the problem is here. If somebody believes that their use of Nintendo's products is creative enough to qualify as an original work which falls under the purview of fair use, they should be able to appeal, defend their position and reclaim their revenue source (there's precedent for this on Youtube). If, on the other hand, somebody has been using Nintendo's products for profit without making a substantial creative contribution of their own (say, just uploading footage sans commentary) then aren't Nintendo just claiming what's theirs under the terms to which the Youtubers themselves agreed?

You could argue that Nintendo should have done this beforehand but, realistically, are they going to trawl through Youtube making a fair use assessment of each video? A blanket policy is the only realistic approach and, frankly, this is about as gregarious as blanket policies get.
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Old 17-05-2013, 18:35
Aspartame
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There's a lot of misinformation around on this subject at the moment.

Nintendo aren't just targetting people putting videos up for fun or as a hobby. If that was all it was, then it wouldn't be bad.

They've put claims on videos uploaded by Network Partners who have agreements in place with software companies to monetise game footage. These sort of people aren't in Youtube for a quick buck, it's how they pay the rent.

I've seen many people pointing to the public Youtube partner agreement, which specifically excludes monetisation of videos containing "game visuals"

However the Network Partners I mentioned above don't sign that agreement, and instead go through the Networks (such as TGS, or Machinima) who have agreements in place allowing games videos. It's these agreements which Nintendo are choosing to ignore.

This will inevitably lead to drastically reduced coverage of Nintendo titles on Youtube, which can't be good for anyone, least of all Nintendo themselves.
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Old 17-05-2013, 18:58
chopoff
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That's not quite true. You can upload an monetise whatever the hell you like so long as you have the rights to do so.

It doesn't matter if you are just Joe Bloggs doing it for himself or a partner with Machinima or whoever.

And also, what you are suggesting is that Machinima has an agreement with Nintendo and that they are ignoring it.

In which case, hello law suit. Because they'd be in breach of contract if they're just ignoring what was already signed, so it makes me think that actually Nintendo doesn't have an agreement with them at all, or the likes of Machinima have agreed to Nintendo's terms whereby the video revenue goes to Nintendo.
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Old 17-05-2013, 19:19
Ash_735
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chopoff, in case you're curious to hear a point of view, TotalBiscuit has put together a video addressing this, but first, here's a direct response to your "How about 'Let's Players' getting a damn proper job"
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Old 17-05-2013, 19:55
chopoff
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chopoff, in case you're curious to hear a point of view, TotalBiscuit has put together a video addressing this, but first, here's a direct response to your "How about 'Let's Players' getting a damn proper job"
I didn't tell them to get a proper job that was Chparmar...
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Old 17-05-2013, 20:11
jjesso123
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chopoff, in case you're curious to hear a point of view, TotalBiscuit has put together a video addressing this, but first, here's a direct response to your "How about 'Let's Players' getting a damn proper job"
Chparmar Said that not chopoff.

I think It just sad any big company really needs to resort to doing this really. The fact is their fans are putting hours into making these videos, editing,uploading, buying recording equipment.

I just can't understand Nintendo, such great company and actually catered for fans of their products, now everyday It's like F**K you fans !
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Old 17-05-2013, 20:48
ryanr554
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First of all, I completely disagree with Nintendo for doing this, I think they should have just let it be because it wasn't hurting them in any way. However I feel they are well within their rights to do it.

People are making money from their products, this is not exactly fair any way you look at it. Without Nintendo, they wouldn't be making any money in the first place.

Secondly, making money should be an afterthought when making videos. They obviously weren't getting money for it when they started, it was just a hobby, I don't see why they would complain about not getting money now.
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Old 17-05-2013, 20:58
Ash_735
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I didn't tell them to get a proper job that was Chparmar...
Ahh yes, sorry, was in a rush when posting that, I do apologise. ...erm, TAKE THAT Chparmar!
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Old 17-05-2013, 21:44
jjesso123
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First of all, I completely disagree with Nintendo for doing this, I think they should have just let it be because it wasn't hurting them in any way. However I feel they are well within their rights to do it.

People are making money from their products, this is not exactly fair any way you look at it. Without Nintendo, they wouldn't be making any money in the first place.

Secondly, making money should be an afterthought when making videos. They obviously weren't getting money for it when they started, it was just a hobby, I don't see why they would complain about not getting money now.
However Nintendo are making money from these videos already. Youtube is probaly biggest source of free advertising for the gaming industry. Gamers rely on seeing games before purchase. How many of you's see a game in the headline and go straight to youtube ?

However back then you didn't have such demand for 1 hour + clips some these users spend most their time doing this, and that's purely because they enjoy doing it. However that time is time where need to make money, and in current times you do what can to pay the rent and food bills. If they can't make that money doing that then they are not going put time and effort into this, meaning less video's, resulting in less advertising for Nintendo, and pissed of fans.

I have so much respect for people who do spend doing this and I think they deserve something for that effort and commitment.

Right or wrong, this purely down to peoples opinions I don't think there is a right answer. However what is true this is going to do far more damage to Nintendo than good.
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Old 17-05-2013, 22:23
jim_uk
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To earn a living on Youtube you have to be good at what you do, if those who produce the quality content abandon Nintendo you're left with little Billy pointing his phone at the TV on a channel only 3 people look at. Nintendo are shooting themselves in the foot, their competitors will still be getting quality coverage while they don't. Also I doubt I'm the only the only person who uses lets plays in place of paid reviews and bullshit marketing when deciding if I should buy a game or not, hell I've ended up buying games I've never even considered after watching a lets play.

I really can't figure out what Nintendo are playing at, this period leading up to the next gen Sony/MSFT offerings is where they really need to be pulling people in, instead they seem hellbent on alienating them.
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Old 18-05-2013, 02:05
Chparmar
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Seems to me that you're angry at them for doing what they want and still making money off it, which seems a little unfair, hell, there's always the kind of dream jobs we'd like in life, getting paid to sit around and listen to music/watch films/play games is probably up there for most. And that's the beauty of it, there's that many people doing it, if you don't like one, you don't have to watch them, just try one of the many others until you find someone who's more in tune with your tastes.
No I am not angry at all. But if you want to make money off other people's copyright you should get clearance from the right holders.

Nintendo are not so hot right now, but I back this policy fully. All companies have channels on You Tube and it should be no problem for a video game distributor to make their own official 'Let's Plays', if it's such a big marketing tactic.
But sorry, I won't back copyright infringement whatsoever. I think real gamer's will continue to post Nintendo's LPs, without worrying about if they get paid or not.
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Old 19-05-2013, 12:00
Aspartame
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No I am not angry at all. But if you want to make money off other people's copyright you should get clearance from the right holders.

Nintendo are not so hot right now, but I back this policy fully. All companies have channels on You Tube and it should be no problem for a video game distributor to make their own official 'Let's Plays', if it's such a big marketing tactic.
But sorry, I won't back copyright infringement whatsoever. I think real gamer's will continue to post Nintendo's LPs, without worrying about if they get paid or not.
As I said earler, Nintendo are flagging content from professional video makers who DO have clearance from publishers to do what they're doing, and they're not just hitting Let's Plays, but also journalistic content, including reviews

Also, as soon as anyone sees that a Lets Play video is made by Nintendo they will cease to trust it completely. I'd like to think most YouTube watchers can distinguish a cynical advert made by the publisher, from a video made by someone who actuallly happens to like the game.
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Old 19-05-2013, 12:18
chopoff
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As I said earler, Nintendo are flagging content from professional video makers who DO have clearance from publishers to do what they're doing, and they're not just hitting Let's Plays, but also journalistic content, including reviews

Also, as soon as anyone sees that a Lets Play video is made by Nintendo they will cease to trust it completely. I'd like to think most YouTube watchers can distinguish a cynical advert made by the publisher, from a video made by someone who actuallly happens to like the game.
So you are stating that the likes of Machinima have a contract with Nintendo to publish videos containing Nintendo content.

Because you said that earlier too and mentioned that Nintendo are now chosing to "ignore" those agreements.

But if that is the case, you can't just "ignore" a contract. That puts you in breach of contract and Machinima and others would be able to sue Nintendo for that breach of contract.

So I'm not quite sure if I buy what you're selling.
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Old 19-05-2013, 12:28
Chris_TV
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All this shows is a sign of hard times at Nintendo. I mean where else is making them enough money to get back what they put into the Wii U.

I doubt we will see other game consoles take this route.
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Old 19-05-2013, 13:35
Speedloafer
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Move over EA, Nintendo are in town.

Would this mean if I made a video of myself driving down to the shops and then I added commentary later. Would the car company, or maybe the council or whoever owns the roads would be entitled to some revenue from my video? Or if I uploaded a game of Hungry Hungry Hippo with myself and my friends playing would Milton Bradley be entitled to revenue?
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Old 19-05-2013, 14:05
chopoff
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Move over EA, Nintendo are in town.

Would this mean if I made a video of myself driving down to the shops and then I added commentary later. Would the car company, or maybe the council or whoever owns the roads would be entitled to some revenue from my video? Or if I uploaded a game of Hungry Hungry Hippo with myself and my friends playing would Milton Bradley be entitled to revenue?
Roads are public, so no.

Hungry Hippos, yes.
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Old 19-05-2013, 14:29
Speedloafer
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Roads are public, so no.

Hungry Hippos, yes.
Why do you believe they should be entitled to revenue? If i was lets say, reviewing the game as I played it. Like a reviewer would do on youtube.
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Old 19-05-2013, 14:29
thomas2400
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Move over EA, Nintendo are in town.

Would this mean if I made a video of myself driving down to the shops and then I added commentary later. Would the car company, or maybe the council or whoever owns the roads would be entitled to some revenue from my video? Or if I uploaded a game of Hungry Hungry Hippo with myself and my friends playing would Milton Bradley be entitled to revenue?
I think it's a slightly different argument then that but i can see your point

If i was to drive to my local game shop in a car, the journey would be completely different to yours

If i was to hungry hungry hippos with my friends it would play out totally different to how your game did

If we both watched a let's play of say uncharted it would be exactly the same for both of us and it could be argued that that is the problem, if you have watched somebody play a largely scripted game like uncharted, you have seen every thing it has to offer and there is nothing new to experience if you play it for yourself

I'm not against Let's Play but i can see the arguments against them, the sooner Nintendo realize that just like piracy this is not a black and white situation the better
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Old 19-05-2013, 14:34
Speedloafer
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I think it's a slightly different argument then that but i can see your point

If i was to drive to my local game shop in a car, the journey would be completely different to yours

If i was to hungry hungry hippos with my friends it would play out totally different to how your game did

If we both watched a let's play of say uncharted it would be exactly the same for both of us and it could be argued that that is the problem, if you have watched somebody play a largely scripted game like uncharted, you have seen every thing it has to offer and there is nothing new to experience if you play it for yourself

I'm not against Let's Play but i can see the arguments against them, the sooner Nintendo realize that just like piracy this is not a black and white situation the better
On a game say like Broken Sword where its all script, then yes a letsplay would be wrong. But the vast majority of games simply watching it would not substitute playing the game. Its not like you could get the "gaming" experience from simply watching a video.

On a side note maybe Chop could get this moved to the main Gaming forum. A lot of people would have an opinion
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Old 19-05-2013, 14:52
thomas2400
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On a game say like Broken Sword where its all script, then yes a letsplay would be wrong. But the vast majority of games simply watching it would not substitute playing the game. Its not like you could get the "gaming" experience from simply watching a video.

On a side note maybe Chop could get this moved to the main Gaming forum. A lot of people would have an opinion
Like i said its not black and white for some people just watching is enough, others will watch a part or 2 and then may by the game

There is no possible way to figure out if you lose or gain money from these people overall

take a friend as an example, he had Pirates 1 on VHS somewhere but for convenience sack (rather than searching for the VHS player, VHS and the cables) he just downloaded it and he loved it so much that he went out and purchased the trilogy giving Disney more money than if he didn't pirate to begin with

its a similar situation with let's plays
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Old 19-05-2013, 15:10
Cryolemon
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All this shows is a sign of hard times at Nintendo. I mean where else is making them enough money to get back what they put into the Wii U.

I doubt we will see other game consoles take this route.
Agreed. I don't think any other company has done anything similar to this (nor do I think they will anytime soon).
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