There's a bigass dead tardis there and that funny time stream they all jumped it, so will the doctor eventually wind up dying there in some future incarnation? or was that all avoided this episode?
So will the doctor still die at trenzalore?
The Doctor dies eventually and is buried at Trenzalore. But no, it doesn't look like he actually dies at Trenzalore.
Originally Posted by user123456:
“There's a bigass dead tardis there and that funny time stream they all jumped it, so will the doctor eventually wind up dying there is some future incarnation? or was that all fixed?”
“There's a bigass dead tardis there and that funny time stream they all jumped it, so will the doctor eventually wind up dying there is some future incarnation? or was that all fixed?”
Well if the ATM tell us anything it's when you see your own grave you can't change it
Originally Posted by ea91:
“The Doctor dies eventually and is buried at Trenzalore. But no, it doesn't look like he actually dies at Trenzalore.”
“The Doctor dies eventually and is buried at Trenzalore. But no, it doesn't look like he actually dies at Trenzalore.”
Doesn't the Doctor say the graveyard is from a battle?
Seems pretty likely the battle was on/at Trenzalore as well.
The GI also talks about the Battle of Trenzalore as well saying it was a pretty small affair compared to the Timewar.
Originally Posted by Sora2311:
“I think because he saw his own grave it is a fixed point in time now”
“I think because he saw his own grave it is a fixed point in time now”
Very true but as ea91 said we only saw his grave form the Doctors POV he may not die for a few thousand years and be the 50th Doctor when he does happen.
The Doctor knows he will obviously die forever one day even if he has unlimited regenerations that sooner or later something will happen that even a regeneration can't fix
Originally Posted by Corwin:
“Doesn't the Doctor say the graveyard is from a battle?
Seems pretty likely the battle was on/at Trenzalore as well.
The GI also talks about the Battle of Trenzalore as well saying it was a pretty small affair compared to the Timewar.”
“Doesn't the Doctor say the graveyard is from a battle?
Seems pretty likely the battle was on/at Trenzalore as well.
The GI also talks about the Battle of Trenzalore as well saying it was a pretty small affair compared to the Timewar.”
I took that to mean it's just a grave yard for those fallen in battle no matter where they fell
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“Very true but as ea91 said we only saw his grave form the Doctors POV he may not die for a few thousand years and be the 50th Doctor when he does”
“Very true but as ea91 said we only saw his grave form the Doctors POV he may not die for a few thousand years and be the 50th Doctor when he does”
Ah but it was the 11th Doctor's console room he was 'buried' in, which the 50th Doctor is not likely to still have.
Interestingly, the giant TARDIS had the same cracked window as the Doctor's TARDIS.
I guess he never got round to fixing it.
I guess he never got round to fixing it.
I posted this over at Gallifrey Base, but seems appropriate here. In simple terms, the Doctor simply assumes that he winds up on Trenzelore, an assumption which his discovery of the TARDIS reinforced... but doesn't completely answer.
In TNOTD, the Doctor visited Trenzelore, presumably where he is buried, and finds the TARDIS slowly dying. That TARDIS still has the small crack in the window that formed when the Doctor forced her to fall to Trenzelore, and the interior desktop theme was the current one.
That doesn't leave very much room for Doctor Who to continue after Eleven dies.
So I've been thinking - perhaps it's the TARDIS that's being written out or replaced.
Within the scope of the episode, everyone simply assumes that the web of time-lines in the TARDIS is the Doctor's own personal timeline. That assumption isn't challenged in the episode itself, and we never see the Doctor's corpse.
Could it be that the TARDIS herself dies before the Doctor? After all, we're assuming that timeline belongs to the Doctor simply because the Doctor can be found all the way along it... but the Doctor had a constant companion who's own timeline would be remarkably similar and would overlap nearly completely. What if that timeline belonged to the TARDIS?
Of course, that would involve the iconic Police Box being written out, Gallifrey returning, and a new model being procured - but it would easily solve the continuity issues this episode raised.
In TNOTD, the Doctor visited Trenzelore, presumably where he is buried, and finds the TARDIS slowly dying. That TARDIS still has the small crack in the window that formed when the Doctor forced her to fall to Trenzelore, and the interior desktop theme was the current one.
That doesn't leave very much room for Doctor Who to continue after Eleven dies.
So I've been thinking - perhaps it's the TARDIS that's being written out or replaced.
Within the scope of the episode, everyone simply assumes that the web of time-lines in the TARDIS is the Doctor's own personal timeline. That assumption isn't challenged in the episode itself, and we never see the Doctor's corpse.
Could it be that the TARDIS herself dies before the Doctor? After all, we're assuming that timeline belongs to the Doctor simply because the Doctor can be found all the way along it... but the Doctor had a constant companion who's own timeline would be remarkably similar and would overlap nearly completely. What if that timeline belonged to the TARDIS?
Of course, that would involve the iconic Police Box being written out, Gallifrey returning, and a new model being procured - but it would easily solve the continuity issues this episode raised.
Time can be re-written.
The Doctor was meant to die at Trenzelore at the hands of the Great Intelligence. Clara by stepping in his timeline has saved him from it.
That's how I saw it anyway.
The Doctor was meant to die at Trenzelore at the hands of the Great Intelligence. Clara by stepping in his timeline has saved him from it.
That's how I saw it anyway.
Originally Posted by jcafcw:
“Time can be re-written.
The Doctor was meant to die at Trenzelore at the hands of the Great Intelligence. Clara by stepping in his timeline has saved him from it.
That's how I saw it anyway.”
“Time can be re-written.
The Doctor was meant to die at Trenzelore at the hands of the Great Intelligence. Clara by stepping in his timeline has saved him from it.
That's how I saw it anyway.”
The aim of the great intelligence was to ensure the doctor was defeated at every opportunity and presumably died prematurely. He will be buried at Trenzelore as all Timelords are (well at least according to this episode) it's just a question of when. Since we have found the doctor is on his 12th incarnation, this could easily be soon.
Originally Posted by Pobatti:
“I posted this over at Gallifrey Base, but seems appropriate here. In simple terms, the Doctor simply assumes that he winds up on Trenzelore, an assumption which his discovery of the TARDIS reinforced... but doesn't completely answer.
In TNOTD, the Doctor visited Trenzelore, presumably where he is buried, and finds the TARDIS slowly dying. That TARDIS still has the small crack in the window that formed when the Doctor forced her to fall to Trenzelore, and the interior desktop theme was the current one.
That doesn't leave very much room for Doctor Who to continue after Eleven dies.
So I've been thinking - perhaps it's the TARDIS that's being written out or replaced.
Within the scope of the episode, everyone simply assumes that the web of time-lines in the TARDIS is the Doctor's own personal timeline. That assumption isn't challenged in the episode itself, and we never see the Doctor's corpse.
Could it be that the TARDIS herself dies before the Doctor? After all, we're assuming that timeline belongs to the Doctor simply because the Doctor can be found all the way along it... but the Doctor had a constant companion who's own timeline would be remarkably similar and would overlap nearly completely. What if that timeline belonged to the TARDIS?
Of course, that would involve the iconic Police Box being written out, Gallifrey returning, and a new model being procured - but it would easily solve the continuity issues this episode raised.”
“I posted this over at Gallifrey Base, but seems appropriate here. In simple terms, the Doctor simply assumes that he winds up on Trenzelore, an assumption which his discovery of the TARDIS reinforced... but doesn't completely answer.
In TNOTD, the Doctor visited Trenzelore, presumably where he is buried, and finds the TARDIS slowly dying. That TARDIS still has the small crack in the window that formed when the Doctor forced her to fall to Trenzelore, and the interior desktop theme was the current one.
That doesn't leave very much room for Doctor Who to continue after Eleven dies.
So I've been thinking - perhaps it's the TARDIS that's being written out or replaced.
Within the scope of the episode, everyone simply assumes that the web of time-lines in the TARDIS is the Doctor's own personal timeline. That assumption isn't challenged in the episode itself, and we never see the Doctor's corpse.
Could it be that the TARDIS herself dies before the Doctor? After all, we're assuming that timeline belongs to the Doctor simply because the Doctor can be found all the way along it... but the Doctor had a constant companion who's own timeline would be remarkably similar and would overlap nearly completely. What if that timeline belonged to the TARDIS?
Of course, that would involve the iconic Police Box being written out, Gallifrey returning, and a new model being procured - but it would easily solve the continuity issues this episode raised.”
Your theory is flawed. The doctor says the time web is his personal time stream on many occasions in the episode....... He himself also says he is buried in there. When asked where his body is, he states bodies are boring, he's had many of them
Originally Posted by Shandyman81:
“Your theory is flawed. The doctor says the time web is his personal time stream on many occasions in the episode....... He himself also says he is buried in there. When asked where his body is, he states bodies are boring, he's had many of them”
“Your theory is flawed. The doctor says the time web is his personal time stream on many occasions in the episode....... He himself also says he is buried in there. When asked where his body is, he states bodies are boring, he's had many of them”
Exactly. The is the fixed end of the Doctor, though it seems he'll plainly still have many incarnations between now and the, including the Valeyard. I didn't notice that the window pane was still broken on the tomb, and did, of couse, notice that the console room is the same as 11's current. I'd assume the former necessitates that the pane is from here on out fractured, and the latter that the Doctor's final incarnation returns to this version of the console room, but I think we can safely assume that Moff didn't intend to paint the show into the corner of the eleventh Doctor being the last.
Originally Posted by Shandyman81:
“Your theory is flawed. The doctor says the time web is his personal time stream on many occasions in the episode....... He himself also says he is buried in there. When asked where his body is, he states bodies are boring, he's had many of them”
“Your theory is flawed. The doctor says the time web is his personal time stream on many occasions in the episode....... He himself also says he is buried in there. When asked where his body is, he states bodies are boring, he's had many of them”
That analysis of my theory is flawed. It assumes the Doctor's own personal assumptions about the situation in which he found himself were true, and he's been wrong on many times before, only realizing the truth once a key clue becomes clear.
While he says the time web is his personal time stream, he's just acting on an assumption. When he uses the sonic to listen in on the stream, the voices of previous Doctors can be heard (reinforcing his confidence in the theory), even though such voices would still audible from the TARDIS own time-stream since she's been everywhere he has.
While he can only (again) assume he's buried there, based on how the weight of the evidence appears at first glance, that's no proof that he's incorrect and has somehow found a way to fool himself from the future knowing he wound up there in his past, not wanting to give hints away.
He didn't even realise River Song's grave was a back-door to his tomb until River herself pointed it out. Who put that back-door there, and why? I think the Doctor himself left that secret entrance behind, when he abandoned the dead TARDIS and left Trenzelore, knowing his earlier incarnation would need it.
His line about bodies being boring proves nothing. It can be assumed that Rassilon's body resided within the Tomb of Rassilon, and other Time Lords have been able to find ways to manifest themselves despite being dead. There was no sign of this. The Doctor's line didn't mean he won't have left a body behind, just that he wasn't interested in it.
But if it wasn't in the control room, where was it?
Originally Posted by user123456:
“There's a bigass dead tardis there and that funny time stream they all jumped it, so will the doctor eventually wind up dying there in some future incarnation? or was that all avoided this episode?”
“There's a bigass dead tardis there and that funny time stream they all jumped it, so will the doctor eventually wind up dying there in some future incarnation? or was that all avoided this episode?”
John Hurt. We now have two doctors together, it seems. So if one dies, there is still a spare
The time-web the doctor was standing next to when he saved clara in his own time-web closed, could have something to do with the doctor dying at trenzalore being averted...?
It's easily possible that that was the TARDIS' timestream as it's where the middle of the console should be as well.
Clara said "I saw all of you. 11 faces, all of them you." plus John Hurt. We know there will be more then 11 doctors so that's not true unless BBC is giving doctor who the axe sometime soon.
It's easily possible that that was the TARDIS' timestream as it's where the middle of the console should be as well.
Clara said "I saw all of you. 11 faces, all of them you." plus John Hurt. We know there will be more then 11 doctors so that's not true unless BBC is giving doctor who the axe sometime soon.
