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Sony announces "Mastered in 4k" Bluray Titles.


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Old 19-05-2013, 10:11
Deacon1972
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To compliment the industries launch of 4k TV, Sony will be releasing a new line of "Mastered in 4k titles", the first Bach of 10 already being released stateside.

They should offer slightly better quality on 2k sets due to the extra bitrate used, but don't expect any extras, the higher gains are likely to be those who have 4k sets, basically because this is what the discs have been optimised for, Sony say they work best on their 4k sets, well what a surprise.

Bluray Superbit anyone.


http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...Ultra_HD/11781
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Old 19-05-2013, 16:40
Chris Frost
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Hmmm.... Isn't Much Ado About Nothing available on Blu-ray now? Seems like a perfect fit for this new "Mastered from 4K" format
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Old 19-05-2013, 16:41
big brother 9
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what level will they go to next time? arent they all just the same
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Old 19-05-2013, 17:17
Deacon1972
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what level will they go to next time? arent they all just the same
I assume they will go to 4k next, at the moment there is no medium that can cater for the very high storage, but the Bluray Disc association are considering extending the format to include 4k support.

After 4k I suppose it'll be mastered from 8k then an 8k format.
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Old 19-05-2013, 20:40
webbie
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I expect they will release blu-ray xl players in time - this format can hold up to128GB per disk so should be enough for a 4k film.
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Old 19-05-2013, 23:47
biggebruv
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Is it not too soon for this bluray is not that old yet
Money is tight these days and now theres another type of HD being released lol yeah im fine with bluray for another few years yet
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Old 20-05-2013, 00:16
Deacon1972
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Is it not too soon for this bluray is not that old yet
Money is tight these days and now theres another type of HD being released lol yeah im fine with bluray for another few years yet
The AV industry moves pretty quick, in this instance it's the TV sector that's pushing new technology, bluray are just trying to keep up, mastered in 4k is just a stop gap until true 4k can be achieved. I don't think there's any difference in price between the two formats, which are bluray and mastered in 4k bluray, not from what I have seen - true 4k may be a different story.

I think most will be fine with bluray for another few years too, early adopters will be eager to get their hands on the new format, it's going to be a costly one at present.
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Old 20-05-2013, 01:00
Kenny Maclean
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Would love to know what the ASA think about this, considering they are NOT actually "Mastered in 4K"?
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Old 20-05-2013, 07:37
Gormond
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I expect they will release blu-ray xl players in time - this format can hold up to128GB per disk so should be enough for a 4k film.
The bandwidth of blu-ray for video is to slow (40 Mbit/s) for 4k at a decent bitrate. I think they will require a new format to do it properly, maybe based on holographic technology.
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Old 20-05-2013, 09:46
Deacon1972
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The bandwidth of blu-ray for video is to slow (40 Mbit/s) for 4k at a decent bitrate. I think they will require a new format to do it properly, maybe based on holographic technology.
Surely a new format is not required, just advanced compression like HEVC (High Efficiency Video Codec). HEVC allows a 4k image to be broadcast at a data rate of 20Mps, about 50% improvement in efficiency over H264.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_...y_Video_Coding

On a side note - Japanese companies have just developed the worlds first real time HEVC encoder for 8k.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multime..._8K_Video.html
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Old 20-05-2013, 10:24
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There are a whole range of issue which need to be resolved and stnardsised before HEVC as a system will come in ..
there is the matter of bit depth - at higher res banding is obvious so 10 bit coding will be needed, then Clour Gamut - BT 2020 not the BT 709 used in HD, then Frame rate - probably Ok at 24FPS for existing films but for TV at least 120 FPS or ideally 300 FPS...
and things like Gamma etc etc ...
In simple terms HEVC at UHD using HD parameters looks OK but not really much improved over HD acquired at 4K...

Who is pushing 4k???
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Old 20-05-2013, 10:29
Gormond
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Can BDXL even be stamped?
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Old 20-05-2013, 13:42
Deacon1972
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There are a whole range of issue which need to be resolved and stnardsised before HEVC as a system will come in ..
there is the matter of bit depth - at higher res banding is obvious so 10 bit coding will be needed, then Clour Gamut - BT 2020 not the BT 709 used in HD, then Frame rate - probably Ok at 24FPS for existing films but for TV at least 120 FPS or ideally 300 FPS...
and things like Gamma etc etc ...
In simple terms HEVC at UHD using HD parameters looks OK but not really much improved over HD acquired at 4K...

Who is pushing 4k???
I think the ITC and MPEG have both given HEVC sufficient approval and the final standardisation is just a formality.

I believe Main10, which is one of the three HEVC profiles, allows for 10 bit coding and higher colour sampling. An interesting article here....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04...evc/page2.html

Sony are pushing 4k products, TV's , PJ's and 4k upscaling bluray players. LG, Samsung and Toshiba also have 4k TV's out, Panasonic will join them in 2014 - even certain AV receivers are available with 4k upscaling.
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Old 20-05-2013, 13:52
PPhilster
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To compliment the industries launch of 4k TV, Sony will be releasing a new line of "Mastered in 4k titles", the first Bach of 10 already being released stateside.

They should offer slightly better quality on 2k sets due to the extra bitrate used, but don't expect any extras, the higher gains are likely to be those who have 4k sets, basically because this is what the discs have been optimised for, Sony say they work best on their 4k sets, well what a surprise.

Bluray Superbit anyone.


http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...Ultra_HD/11781
I don't know why this is a big deal when 8k transfers to Blu-Ray already exist. The old Ben Hur movie is a perfect example.

Sony can not say in any way that they will look best on 4k TVs since the 4k originals are resized down to 1080p. It's marketing BS.
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Old 20-05-2013, 14:04
PPhilster
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I assume they will go to 4k next, at the moment there is no medium that can cater for the very high storage, but the Bluray Disc association are considering extending the format to include 4k support.

After 4k I suppose it'll be mastered from 8k then an 8k format.
Blu-Ray from 8k scans already exist. Some examples Ben Hur, Gone with the Wind, North by Northwest and The Wizard of Oz. There are tons from 4k.
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Old 20-05-2013, 14:41
technologist
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Deacon it is not just h.265 standardisation which is needed... Can the camera work BT 2020 for instances .. And gamma likewise... Which may mean 16 bit acquisition ...
And although there may be up and coming screens... What else is there in 4k or UHD1 ..
The whole chain has to be there....

Certainly for TV there are many who are trying to get UHD not to sustain the legacy of SD which was (sadly) carried into HD
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Old 20-05-2013, 16:58
Deacon1972
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Deacon it is not just h.265 standardisation which is needed... Can the camera work BT 2020 for instances .. And gamma likewise... Which may mean 16 bit acquisition ...
And although there may be up and coming screens... What else is there in 4k or UHD1 ..
The whole chain has to be there....

Certainly for TV there are many who are trying to get UHD not to sustain the legacy of SD which was (sadly) carried into HD
As with HD I suspect there will be extra costs for 4k production/broadcasting.

Eutelsat have a dedicated UHD channel, not sure what they show, but there's some 4k material about.

I don't remember there being much HD about when HDTV's were first available, so I would have thought the displays needed to be the first piece of tech available before the connectables - I'd certainly prefer it that way. I've seen some true 4k and it is truly jaw-dropping, even bluray upscaled to 4k is quite remarkable, so even though the medium is not readily available I'd be perfectly happy with upscaled 2k.
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Old 20-05-2013, 17:50
Deacon1972
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Can the camera work BT 2020 for instances .. And gamma likewise... Which may mean 16 bit acquisition ...
Would Sony's 4k capable F65 camera be suitable, this is used now for film and TV, I believe the BBC are using these for the UHD filming of Survival.
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Old 21-05-2013, 10:49
PPhilster
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As with HD I suspect there will be extra costs for 4k production/broadcasting.

Eutelsat have a dedicated UHD channel, not sure what they show, but there's some 4k material about.

I don't remember there being much HD about when HDTV's were first available, so I would have thought the displays needed to be the first piece of tech available before the connectables - I'd certainly prefer it that way. I've seen some true 4k and it is truly jaw-dropping, even bluray upscaled to 4k is quite remarkable, so even though the medium is not readily available I'd be perfectly happy with upscaled 2k.
Nothing upscaled is "remarkable." Detail can not be created out of nothing.
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Old 21-05-2013, 12:38
Deacon1972
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Nothing upscaled is "remarkable." Detail can not be created out of nothing.
Have to disagree, at the lowest broadcast quality you only have to compare SD to SD on a HD channel where it has been upscaled from source to see differences in quality.

High quality scalers can add information to images by accurately guessing what the next pixel should display, not just duplicating it , much like the 25k projector I saw showing bluray upscaled to 4k, it's a totally different experience, you are not using a low quality source to begin with but high quality one, so yes, the results were quite remarkable.
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Old 24-05-2013, 21:06
Kodaz
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Bluray Superbit anyone.
Oh great, is that coming out on Blu-Ray soon?

Wait... hang on... sorry, what was it you said again?

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Old 27-05-2013, 06:00
PPhilster
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Have to disagree, at the lowest broadcast quality you only have to compare SD to SD on a HD channel where it has been upscaled from source to see differences in quality.

High quality scalers can add information to images by accurately guessing what the next pixel should display, not just duplicating it , much like the 25k projector I saw showing bluray upscaled to 4k, it's a totally different experience, you are not using a low quality source to begin with but high quality one, so yes, the results were quite remarkable.
I have been into professional level image editing for many years and, no, no process can add detail to an upscaled image whether still or video. If it is not there to begin with then it can not be added.
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Old 27-05-2013, 09:14
Gormond
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I have been into professional level image editing for many years and, no, no process can add detail to an upscaled image whether still or video. If it is not there to begin with then it can not be added.
You can however make a good guess of what the pixel in between might be, rather than just duplicating pixels.

You see this with good upscaling DVD players, they make the DVD look a lot better on a 1920 x 1080 screen, the difference is night and day.
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Old 27-05-2013, 09:41
-GONZO-
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Here's a side by side 2009 Blu Ray vs 2013 4k Blu Ray Ghostbusters comparison.
http://youtu.be/CkPDCbaUOBc
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Old 27-05-2013, 10:31
call100
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Here's a side by side 2009 Blu Ray vs 2013 4k Blu Ray Ghostbusters comparison.
http://youtu.be/CkPDCbaUOBc
Does viewing this on a non 4K display do it justice I wonder? Even so you can see the better detail in the 4K version.
Thanks for the link..
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