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John Hurt's Doctor can NOT be from the Time-war


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Old 19-05-2013, 22:44
jasonT1981
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Alright I am maybe looking too much into things

BUT the Hurt Doctor CAN NOT be the Doctor from the time-war....

He can't have meant the time-war in the thing he did that was not in the name of the Doctor..

The secret is something the Dr has been running from ALL his life..... The time war was between his 8th and 9th incarnations which was already well into his life so the time frame makes 0 sense if the time-war is his secret.

Plus, we already know about the time war and the Doctor was the one who ended it, he openly talks about it how he was the one who destroyed the Daleks and his own people to stop the war.

It has to be something different, it just doesn't fit in with things if it is the Doctor from the time-war... The secret is something he has ran from for his whole life....That can not be the actions in the Time-War
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Old 19-05-2013, 22:55
summer_ste
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Unless there is more to what happened in the Time War than what the Doctor has already said.

But I am inclined to agree with you. We're clearly meant to think he's from the Time War. But I think it's something else.
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Old 19-05-2013, 22:59
Banks246
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Agree.

It something bigger, and I hope it is really dark.

Maybe after ending the Time war he decides he needs to end everything to bring peace and sanity?

Although I suppose that wouldn't make sense cause he ended the time war for the Timelords effectively trying the same thing.
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Old 19-05-2013, 23:02
jasonT1981
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Just dawned on me.....


Could Hurt be what the Doctor saw behind door 11 in the God Complex?

'Of course, who else?'
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Old 19-05-2013, 23:05
summer_ste
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Just dawned on me.....


Could Hurt be what the Doctor saw behind door 11 in the God Complex?

'Of course, who else?'
Yup that occurred to me to on my 2nd viewing.
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Old 19-05-2013, 23:06
James Frederick
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Just dawned on me.....


Could Hurt be what the Doctor saw behind door 11 in the God Complex?

'Of course, who else?'
Whatever incarnation he saw it was himself that was behind the door
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Old 19-05-2013, 23:08
summer_ste
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Whatever incarnation he saw it was himself that was behind the door
I think that was obvious but whatever specific incarnation would remind him of a specific action or event. From what 11 said about what Hurt's Doctor did, it would sound fitting that he saw Hurt's Doctor.
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Old 19-05-2013, 23:38
LivingDestiny
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The question has been what he has been running from all his life, which is Doctor Who? I think they made it pretty obvious last night it was The Doctor from the Time War. Many time war references, The Doctor saying he did it in the name of peace etc etc even Eleven agreed with him when he said he had no choice.

Just dawned on me.....


Could Hurt be what the Doctor saw behind door 11 in the God Complex?

'Of course, who else?'
I also thought this
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Old 20-05-2013, 00:01
soulou
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The Doctor appeared to be referring to a specific action undertaken by JH, which may or may not be related to the Time War. However, he could have been running from his dark sides all his life, of which JH is just one representation amongst many. This would seem to have been sign-posted earlier in the episode when the GI mentioned the Storm, the Beast and the Valeyard.
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Old 20-05-2013, 00:08
Abomination
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I got thinking about Last of the Time Lords earlier, and quote The Master on The Doctor's choice of name; "The Doctor, the man who makes people better". Could it be that Hurt is The Doctor before The Doctor, as in pre-Hartnell?

I guess not given the line "he's the one who broke the promise", but it was an intriguing thought all the same
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Old 20-05-2013, 00:09
platelet
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The secret is something the Dr has been running from ALL his life..... The time war was between his 8th and 9th incarnations which was already well into his life so the time frame makes 0 sense if the time-war is his secret.
The thing he was running from could be the thing he had never done till the time war. He was running from the desire and Hurt was the one who stepped out of the closet...
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Old 20-05-2013, 00:35
ea91
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I got thinking about Last of the Time Lords earlier, and quote The Master on The Doctor's choice of name; "The Doctor, the man who makes people better". Could it be that Hurt is The Doctor before The Doctor, as in pre-Hartnell?

I guess not given the line "he's the one who broke the promise", but it was an intriguing thought all the same
Well Hurt's Doctor could have made the promise and broken it too.
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Old 20-05-2013, 00:40
James Frederick
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Well Hurt's Doctor could have made the promise and broken it too.
Well this is what The First Doctor said during The Five Doctors

I am the Doctor! The original, you might say!
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Old 20-05-2013, 00:43
alixfowler
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This might be obvious to classic who watchers but why did he steal the Tardis in the first place? That confused me a bit as I just assumed Gallifrey was always destroyed because of the Time War, what happened in the first episode for him to need it?
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Old 20-05-2013, 00:52
16caerhos
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"What I did, I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity."

That sounds like something someone would say to justify a terrible thing they may have done.

Didn't the Doctor finish the Time War by destroying the Time Lords and Daleks? How can it be anything else?
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Old 20-05-2013, 01:01
James Frederick
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Didn't the Doctor finish the Time War by destroying the Time Lords and Daleks? How can it be anything else?
Because that is not a secret he talks about it all the time whatever he did is something he has never spoken about
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Old 20-05-2013, 01:06
iWho
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The Doctor was not running from John Hurt, he was running from the question, the first question. He knew that the only time he COULD ever speak his name, would be at his grave, at the end.'it's not connected to whoever this non-Doctor Doctor is.

Speculate after you start paying attention.
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Old 20-05-2013, 01:25
cynthia
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This might be obvious to classic who watchers but why did he steal the Tardis in the first place? That confused me a bit as I just assumed Gallifrey was always destroyed because of the Time War, what happened in the first episode for him to need it?
I've always thought it was because the Dr. wanted to see the universe despite the fact that Time Lords were not meant to unless there was a specific need. Also in the Doctor's Wife when he says something about seeing the TARDIS standing there and stealing her, the TARDIS responds that she chose him. Gallifrey exists long after the Doctor is swept away by the TARDIS as evidenced by the classic who return trips to help or be put on trial.
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Old 20-05-2013, 08:31
unit4plus2
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This might be obvious to classic who watchers but why did he steal the Tardis in the first place? That confused me a bit as I just assumed Gallifrey was always destroyed because of the Time War, what happened in the first episode for him to need it?
in answer to your question
the first episode is set on earth when ian and barbara who are 2 school teachers follow one of their pupils (susan) who they are concerned about they come into a junkyard containing a blue police box they enter it to find it is bigger on the inside they ,eet her grandfather the doctor a mysterious alien and are whisked into a series of adventures across space and time the time lords and gallifray are later inventions as over the years a complex story develops ( or is hinted at) it has always been implied that the doctor ran away from gallifrey because he didn't like the timeloads code of non interference bring a natural interferer.
the time war was created by RTD because he wanted to give the new era a new start
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Old 20-05-2013, 08:38
Alrightmate
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Well Hurt's Doctor could have made the promise and broken it too.
That's how I took to read it.
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Old 20-05-2013, 08:41
Alrightmate
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"What I did, I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity."

That sounds like something someone would say to justify a terrible thing they may have done.

Didn't the Doctor finish the Time War by destroying the Time Lords and Daleks? How can it be anything else?
But the Matt Smith Doctor agreed with him that he had no choice.
The Matt Smith Doctor seemed to take more issue with the notion that whatever the John Hurt Doctor did, he did it in the name of The Doctor.
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Old 20-05-2013, 09:32
johnnysaucepn
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Either it's a pre-Hartnell incarnation - and whatever he did was what caused The Doctor to leave behind that name and take on an alias instead. Perhaps his crime is the one that caused The Doctor to go on the run in the first place.
Or it's the End of Time War incarnation - which would seem odd, because although the Doctor has always had regrets about the end of the war, he's always implied that it couldn't have ended any other way.
Of perhaps it's a pre-Time War incarnation - perhaps it was the actions of this Doctor that precipitated the Time War in the first place.
Or perhaps it's something completely different that we haven't had a clue to yet.
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Old 20-05-2013, 09:49
bugloss
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Peter Davidson just said that the 50th special would (as far as he knew) "fill a gap in the Doctor's recent history"
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Old 20-05-2013, 09:51
macman11
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"What I did, I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity."

That sounds like something someone would say to justify a terrible thing they may have done.

Didn't the Doctor finish the Time War by destroying the Time Lords and Daleks? How can it be anything else?
We all know that the Doctor ended the Time War by destroying the Daleks and Time Lords. As mentioned in other posts, this wouldn't really be that shocking.

I think that it might be that the Hurt Doctor (after re-generating from McGann) actually STARTED the Time War and was the lead in it - bringing the Time Lords around to his way of thinking of wanting to wipe out everything in existence. It was only when he re-generated (into Ecclestone) that he realised the error of his ways and sought to stop the Time Lords.
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Old 20-05-2013, 10:58
alixfowler
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in answer to your question
the first episode is set on earth when ian and barbara who are 2 school teachers follow one of their pupils (susan) who they are concerned about they come into a junkyard containing a blue police box they enter it to find it is bigger on the inside they ,eet her grandfather the doctor a mysterious alien and are whisked into a series of adventures across space and time the time lords and gallifray are later inventions as over the years a complex story develops ( or is hinted at) it has always been implied that the doctor ran away from gallifrey because he didn't like the timeloads code of non interference bring a natural interferer.
the time war was created by RTD because he wanted to give the new era a new start
Great answer that makes it a lot clearer
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