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John Hurt's Doctor can NOT be from the Time-war


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Old 20-05-2013, 10:02
Dalekbuster523
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Exactly. John Hurt as a Time War Doctor wouldn't make sense for many reasons. He'll either be a future Doctor, the Valeyard or the Dream Lord.
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Old 20-05-2013, 10:06
DICKENS99
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Exactly. John Hurt as a Time War Doctor wouldn't make sense for many reasons. He'll either be a future Doctor, the Valeyard or the Dream Lord.

Or possibly none of the above and be something new and intriguing from Steven Moffat's imagination.

I know, that's crazy talk, he'll be the Rani.
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Old 20-05-2013, 10:08
Dalekbuster523
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Or possibly none of the above and be something new and intriguing from Steven Moffat's imagination.

.
Which almost certainly will not be a forgotten Doctor.
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Old 20-05-2013, 10:15
Simon_Foston
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Or possibly none of the above and be something new and intriguing from Steven Moffat's imagination.
That's most likely, I think. Although if whatever terrible thing this unknown Doctor did was in the name of peace and sanity, ending the Time War isn't a bad fit. And there have been a few more references to it in these past few episodes than there were in the past two seasons.
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Old 20-05-2013, 12:22
johnnysaucepn
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That's most likely, I think. Although if whatever terrible thing this unknown Doctor did was in the name of peace and sanity, ending the Time War isn't a bad fit.
Unless it was for his peace and sanity, rather than the universe's.
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Old 20-05-2013, 12:37
DarthSillac
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Logically he is more likely to be an incarnation between Doctors 8 and 9:

11 knows him, so he cant be a future incarnation.
He broke the promise of the name Doctor, so can't be before 1.
We have not seen the regeneration of 8 to 9.
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Old 20-05-2013, 12:40
Virgil Tracy
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Logically he is more likely to be an incarnation between Doctors 8 and 9:

11 knows him, so he cant be a future incarnation.
He broke the promise of the name Doctor, so can't be before 1.
We have not seen the regeneration of 8 to 9.

but the thing is - this is gonna be a 50th anniversary show , so I think they're gonna want to go back to the beginning , how did he end up stealing the Tardis with his granddaughter etc. ?

So I think Hurt's character will be from that period .
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Old 20-05-2013, 13:20
Alrightmate
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Alright I am maybe looking too much into things

BUT the Hurt Doctor CAN NOT be the Doctor from the time-war....

He can't have meant the time-war in the thing he did that was not in the name of the Doctor..

The secret is something the Dr has been running from ALL his life..... The time war was between his 8th and 9th incarnations which was already well into his life so the time frame makes 0 sense if the time-war is his secret.

Plus, we already know about the time war and the Doctor was the one who ended it, he openly talks about it how he was the one who destroyed the Daleks and his own people to stop the war.

It has to be something different, it just doesn't fit in with things if it is the Doctor from the time-war... The secret is something he has ran from for his whole life....That can not be the actions in the Time-War
I was leaning towards 3 theories, but I think you may have swayed me more towards this one.

The episode started with a scene on Gallifrey a long time ago. Why bother with a scene like that if it involved a bit more effort and money and if it wasn't going to be significant to the story?
Epic stories often have an elliptical shape where we are introduced to the beginning, then we go on a journey to the end where the ending mirrors events right at the start.
Plus Hartnell was the only ex-Doctor with dialogue and a scene with Clara where he steals the Tardis.
They took the extra time and effort on Hartnell's inclusion wheras with others it was more blink and you'd miss them.

So now I'm more strongly drawn to the Doctor Zero theory above others now.
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Old 20-05-2013, 13:27
Alrightmate
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But I still have a nagging feeling that it still might revolve around the Time War story because by several accounts Steven Moffat really really wanted Chris Eccleston to take part and had several meetings with him. Why be so persistent when he could have been CGI'd in like most of the other Doctors?
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Old 20-05-2013, 13:30
Alrightmate
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Logically he is more likely to be an incarnation between Doctors 8 and 9:

11 knows him, so he cant be a future incarnation.
He broke the promise of the name Doctor, so can't be before 1.
We have not seen the regeneration of 8 to 9.
Can you elaborate on that?
It's just that wouldn't it depend on who the promise was made to? Couldn't it have been a promise that the William Hartnell Doctor had to make to somebody?
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Old 20-05-2013, 13:32
James Frederick
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Can you elaborate on that?
It's just that wouldn't it depend on who the promise was made to? Couldn't it have been a promise that the William Hartnell Doctor had to make to somebody?
11 said

"When a Time Lord takes a name he makes a promise and he was the only one to brake that promise"

so he must be after he took his name
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Old 20-05-2013, 14:08
Alrightmate
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That's most likely, I think. Although if whatever terrible thing this unknown Doctor did was in the name of peace and sanity, ending the Time War isn't a bad fit. And there have been a few more references to it in these past few episodes than there were in the past two seasons.
Yes, like the Warwick Davies character in the Cybermen episode where he spoke about some poor bloke who had to press a button which annihilated races of people.
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Old 20-05-2013, 14:16
DarthSillac
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11 said

"When a Time Lord takes a name he makes a promise and he was the only one to brake that promise"

so he must be after he took his name
Yeah, that's how I read it to be.
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Old 20-05-2013, 14:17
Alrightmate
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11 said

"When a Time Lord takes a name he makes a promise and he was the only one to brake that promise"

so he must be after he took his name
Thanks. Yes, I take your point.
But if he can be slotted in between 8 and 9, why can't he equally have been slotted in before 1?

Couldn't he have taken the name of The Doctor, broke the promise, regenerated into Hartnell who promises to live up to the name, and then The Timelords treat it as though they're starting from scratch again after a rocky start?
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Old 20-05-2013, 14:22
Alrightmate
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Who was the promise made to though?
The Timelords?

How could that be if The Doctor is a renegade who stole a Tardis and went against The Timelords?

Was it a promise he made to himself?
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Old 20-05-2013, 14:35
mikey1980
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Exactly. John Hurt as a Time War Doctor wouldn't make sense for many reasons. He'll either be a future Doctor, the Valeyard or the Dream Lord.
The on-screen credits make it clear: John Hurt IS the Doctor - in other words, the authentic, real-deal. This rules out him being either the Valeyard or the Dream Lord.

He might be a future Doctor - 12th or 13th. He might be the forgotten Doctor between McGann and Eccleston. But 'doctor' he most certainly is, even if he doesn't act in the doctor's name.
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Old 20-05-2013, 16:04
sebbie3000
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Can you elaborate on that?
It's just that wouldn't it depend on who the promise was made to? Couldn't it have been a promise that the William Hartnell Doctor had to make to somebody?
That would still make Hartnell the first Doctor - he's the one that made the promise in your scenario. Therefore, anyone previous to that couldn't have broken a promise that hadn't yet been made.
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Old 20-05-2013, 19:20
Shandyman81
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Exactly. John Hurt as a Time War Doctor wouldn't make sense for many reasons. He'll either be a future Doctor, the Valeyard or the Dream Lord.
He's not a future doctor, as 11 talked about being him. Same with Valeyard. It's time war doctor......
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Old 20-05-2013, 19:30
ea91
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He's not a future doctor, as 11 talked about being him. Same with Valeyard. It's time war doctor......
Even though I doubt Hurt is a future Doctor, Eleven did not specifically state that he was him. He merely stated it is him and knows what he did. It is possible that he learned what he knows as Ten in the 50th itself, but it's not the most likely explanation I suppose.
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Old 20-05-2013, 19:31
Alrightmate
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That would still make Hartnell the first Doctor - he's the one that made the promise in your scenario. Therefore, anyone previous to that couldn't have broken a promise that hadn't yet been made.
I don't see why a Doctor Zero Doctor couldn't also make that same promise.
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Old 20-05-2013, 19:33
ea91
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I don't see why a Doctor Zero Doctor couldn't also make that same promise.
Yeah, I'm leaning towards this theory. The time war is hardly a secret. Doctor Zero may have experimented with the name Doctor, but screwed that up, possibly resulting in the death of
Spoiler
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Old 20-05-2013, 19:43
Gwilbers
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What if John Hurt is an amalgam of all the Doctors up to and including Paul McGann's Doctor. He needed to be all of them combined to end the Time War. He then regenerates into Chris Eccleston just before Doctor Who came back on 2005.
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Old 20-05-2013, 19:55
DJ_K666
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He could of course be a late version of 8. Much as I'd absolutely love to see McGann in the series, we don;t see what becomes of his incarnation. Perhaps 8 ends up doing something terrible or breaks the promise or whatever we just don't know. Which incarnation fought at Arcadia? Which one ended the Time War? That's what I hope will be revealed and that's why I find the whole john hurt doctor so interesting.
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Old 20-05-2013, 20:04
zzen
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John Hurt is an older 11. He (11) knows him because it is the same Doctor, just older. He knows the promise that was broken because he broke it. Hurt will regenerate into 12.
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Old 20-05-2013, 21:06
Mobes
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I think JH Doctor HAS to be tied in with the Time War. It just makes sense. What he did he didn’t do in the name of the Doctor and that surly is the near on genocide of the Daleks and the Time Lords by using the Time Lock and perpetual hell.

I think JH is an almost forced and therefore false regeneration to enable the Doctor to do something he couldn’t.

OK I’m no script writer (lol obviously when u read this) but picture the scene.

The Tardis flies through empty space. Everything seems normal but as the camera pans down we see the brow of a planet (presumably Gallifrey) and suddenly hundreds of Dalek and Time Lord ships battling with each other.

The Tardis is repeatedly hit and buffered and thrown from side to side.

In the Tardis Paul McGanns Doctor tries to keep the ship flying whilst explosions occur inside.

The viewer is on so he and we can see the battle rage outside.

“This is madness.” says the Doctor. “If this carries on the whole universe will be destroyed.”

Panic in his voice “How do I stop this carnage? How can I end this destruction?”

Suddenly a look of calm flows over his face.

“Unless….” He says quietly his face ashen.

The noise of the battle and the Tardis disappears. All around him the Doctor can hear a whisper, a voice. At first we can’t hear what is says but a look of panic looms on the Doctors face.

“I can’t.” he says. “It would be murder.”

The voice whisper gets louder.

The Doctor places his hands over his ears to try and shut out the voice but he can’t. The Doctor twists and turns as if he’s in pain as the whisper gets louder and louder.

“It’s genocide.” he cries. “It would never end.” he shouts as the whisper becomes audible.

“Lock time…lock time…lock time…lock time.” It whispers over and over.

The Doctor looks as if he’s going mad.

“ I can’t do it.” he shouts “ We can’t do this!”

The Doctor doubles over in pain. “Stop.” he shouts but the pain continues.

He looks at his hand and the familiar golden yellow glow begins to emanate from it but suddenly turns more orange and red.

“No.” he cried again. “No stop! You can’t. I can’t do this.”

Suddenly his whole body convulses and then his head is thrown back and we are into a full regeneration. But this is different. It looks different, the colours are red and black not yellow and golden. The Doctor screams and is in agony.

McGanns face begins to change and we see John Hurts Doctor take his place.

He is the forced regeneration of a false Doctor from the dark depths of the Doctors soul.

As the regeneration fades the new “Doctor” looks out at the destruction. He begins to frantically work on the controls of the Tardis.

“Maybe you couldn’t you weak boy. But I can do what must be done.”

We see the Tradis fly into the heart of the battle and the time lock put in place.




Something along those lines but far better written would be SO cool....
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