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audio issues with LG HT setup (dolby digital 5.1)


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Old 20-05-2013, 12:50
myromeo
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Hey,

I think I know the answer to this already but wanted to run it past those of you who know more than I!

OK I have a pretty basic LG DVD home theatre setup that has optical from my Sky+HD box and can output 5.1 dolby digital. Other than lip sync issues which I've almost all but resolved with sound delay of 40ms I am noticing a strange issue when watching certain programs.

When watching something in 5.1 DD (its fine in stereo) that has a constant tone or steadily increasing background tone, like in movies where there trying to build tension, I have noticed the sound is not constant, it drops out for a split second every second, very consistently. Its very annoying!

Now I suspect this is a fault with the LG HT unit but before I go out and buy a new AV amp (Looking at a sony STRDH820 av amp) could it be something else, faulty optical cable, faulty sky box etc or does this sound like the amp?


Thanks in advance
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Old 20-05-2013, 17:23
chrisjr
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A constant background noise is NOT a faulty optical cable. All that can do is randomly change digital ones into zeros or vice versa. Which just creates pops and splats usually and general nastiness.

Much more likely it's the LG system. Personally I would phone the undertakers and give it a decent burial and then go out and buy a proper system.

The Sony amp partnered with suitable speakers (don't recycle the LG ones please!) will blow your current system into the weeds sound quality wise. Of course you'll also need to add a disk player of some sort, maybe upgrade to Blu-Ray while you're at it? For instance

http://www.richersounds.com/package/...deals/pah01685
http://www.richersounds.com/product/...y-bdps1100-blk

Shade under 370 for a pretty decent system.

For somewhat less cash you could use the same Sony Blu-Ray with this AV amp/speaker package

http://www.richersounds.com/product/...96/yama-yht196
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Old 20-05-2013, 18:56
myromeo
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Thanks Chris, I thought as much, was just some what hoping the LG wasn't to blame. 90% of viewing its spot on, just that background noise dropping out really spoils the moment!

I already have a PS3 for bluray so no need to get a new system.

Why do you say not to recycle the LG speakers? They seem decent enough, good size, clear sound. I guess long term I could look to upgrade them but initially I would be reusing them with the new amp.

Is the sony STRDH820 amp a good option? I don't want to spend a fortune and have not used a proper AV amp before. At 150 from richer sounds it seems an absolute bargain.
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Old 20-05-2013, 19:27
chrisjr
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The LG speakers are crap. Pretty much nature of the beast really. if you've never heard anything better then you may be in for a surprise when you listen to some decent hi-fi quality speakers.

Other reasons for not using the LG speakers.

You don't say what actual system you have but dipping into a random sample of the systems on their website it looks like the speakers could be 3ohm. Most proper AV amps are rated for 4ohm minimum usually. Or even 6 or 8 ohm. The Sony seems to be rated for 8ohm speakers only. This means it might not drive the LG speakers properly. In fact it might just end up tripping the protection circuit all the time!

Then you have the power handling. The Sony may well be able to produce more power than the speakers can handle. Which may not be a problem if you handle the volume control carefully. But crank it up to 11 and chances are the speaker cones will end up in your lap

The other problem could be the sub. The Sony like a lot of similar amps has no on-board power amp for the sub. It has to be used with an active sub, ie one with it's own built in amplifier. Many systems like the LG have passive subs, ie no built in amplifier. So can't be used with the Sony. If your sub has a mains lead then it is active so may work. If it has just the speaker cable back to the DVD/Amp unit then it's passive so no use.

If the 300ish for the Sony and Tannoy speaker package out of reach then the Yamaha at 180 is a perfectly decent system.
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Old 20-05-2013, 20:13
myromeo
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Hey, thanks for the info. Checking my curren speakers there 262w max and 4 ohm so I guess there no good for the Sony. The sub is not active, at least it has no separate power. I guess I'll have to put off upgrading for a little whilst and get a set of speakers too. That won't be as easy to get past the wife!

Is there any av amps that would drive the lg speakers and sub with the intention to upgrade them when funds allow?
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Old 20-05-2013, 20:28
myromeo
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By the way my current HT system is the LG HT503TH.
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Old 20-05-2013, 20:59
chrisjr
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I see LG like many of their ilk don't actually bother to tell you what sort of watts they measure in. So the rating of the speakers could be way lower than at first sight if you use "proper" RMS watts. And like virtually all AV manufacturers (including Sony, Onkyo, Yamaha etc) they lie about the number of watts you can get out of the beast.

If you add up the wattage of the amplifier outputs it does indeed come to 260 odd watts. Yet according to the LG website the power consumption is only 80 watts. What they do is drive one speaker only then multiply that by the number of channels. Which is a con as hardly anybody uses just one speaker in real life so with all 6 going the wattage is a fraction of what they claim.

I don't know of any amps with passive sub. Had a look at various manufacturers and as far as I could see all their models need active subs.

Oh and on the subject of the domestic harmony situation...

You could placate the wife by pointing out a new set of speakers would be much more compact and discrete than the LG ones. Or of course you could always trade her in for a new model at the same time
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Old 20-05-2013, 21:13
myromeo
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The speakers are reasonably compact at the moment (got small satellite ones not the tall floor standers) but yeah, I suspect I am about to step in to a whole new world of audio clarity. I'll hold off for a little whilst and splash out on a good setup when funds are more flexible. Shame I can't reuse the lg speakers, even short term. Never mind. Glad I asked on here tho, didn't even cross my mind to check these things out!
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Old 20-05-2013, 21:16
Deacon1972
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If you can explain how the speakers and sub are connected they may be a way of connecting the sub to the front left/right terminals on the new amp, this might get you by until you can afford to upgrade.
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Old 20-05-2013, 21:23
Deacon1972
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I see LG like many of their ilk don't actually bother to tell you what sort of watts they measure in. So the rating of the speakers could be way lower than at first sight if you use "proper" RMS watts. And like virtually all AV manufacturers (including Sony, Onkyo, Yamaha etc) they lie about the number of watts you can get out of the beast.

If you add up the wattage of the amplifier outputs it does indeed come to 260 odd watts. Yet according to the LG website the power consumption is only 80 watts. What they do is drive one speaker only then multiply that by the number of channels. Which is a con as hardly anybody uses just one speaker in real life so with all 6 going the wattage is a fraction of what they claim.

I don't know of any amps with passive sub. Had a look at various manufacturers and as far as I could see all their models need active subs.

Oh and on the subject of the domestic harmony situation...

You could placate the wife by pointing out a new set of speakers would be much more compact and discrete than the LG ones. Or of course you could always trade her in for a new model at the same time
The majority of amps will be able to run a passive sub, they are connected at high level (speaker level). The front left and right speakers connect to the subs left/right speaker terminals, then there's a separate connection made from the sub to the left/right speaker terminals on the amp. Most active subs can be connected this way too.
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Old 20-05-2013, 21:33
chrisjr
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The majority of amps will be able to run a passive sub, they are connected at high level (speaker level). The front left and right speakers connect to the subs left/right speaker terminals, then there's a separate connection made from the sub to the left/right speaker terminals on the amp. Most active subs can be connected this way too.
But not the sub myromeo has.That has a single connection to the DVD/Amp combo unit which has it's own amp for the sub. It doesn't have any passthrough connections for the fronts as you describe.
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Old 20-05-2013, 21:45
Deacon1972
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But not the sub myromeo has.That has a single connection to the DVD/Amp combo unit which has it's own amp for the sub. It doesn't have any passthrough connections for the fronts as you describe.
Looks like I was taking your post too literally, should have realised you would know how a passive sub would connect in a system made up of separates.

Would have to agree with you here if the sub has a single connection, just one of the drawbacks with an all in one systems.
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Old 21-05-2013, 09:14
myromeo
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Hey guys, thanks again, very interesting stuff.

My sub only has the one connection to the HT amp and no speaker pass-through available so looks like i'm out of luck on that!

I do fancy a new AV receiver setup but think I need to look for a good deal on receiver and speakers now. I see the sony av is 8 ohm but a lot are 6, what is better? Does only being capable of 8 mean I am more limited on speakers as I see most sets are 6 ohm too!

What an interesting topic!
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Old 21-05-2013, 10:49
chrisjr
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The speaker impedance has little bearing on quality. The main thing that limits what speaker impedance an amp can drive is how much current it can dump into the load. The lower the impedance the higher the current for a given voltage output. Simple Ohms law, a 4ohm speaker will draw twice the current of an 8 ohm speaker at the same voltage.

So it comes down to how much current the power transistors in the amp can handle. An amp rated into 8 ohm speakers may well be able to drive 4 ohm speakers at low to mid range on the volume control. It could however run out of grunt at higher settings on the volume control. At worst that could damage the power stages, though you would hope the design includes some sort of over current protection that would shut the amp down before any damage occurs.

6 ohms is not so big a jump for an 8 ohm amp so you might get away with it at sensible volumes. You might run into problems if you want to faithfully recreate the sound of Concorde taking off or, if that's too quiet, a Motorhead concert
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Old 21-05-2013, 12:02
myromeo
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Ah my current system volume never goes above 15% and its plenty loud, we have a pretty small living room, 3.5m x 4.5m or so.

One thing I am considering is the placement, at the moment the TV is in a corner so the speaker positioning is compromised heavily, I am considering rearranging (if the wife buys in to it!) to get a better setup to start with. This will only help when I upgrade.

I can't imagine me using the setup mega loud, I would rather have good clear sound at moderate levels than huge sound at the higher levels.
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Old 18-07-2013, 21:13
myromeo
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hey, just thought I would update you all on this.

I went out today and picked up a Yamaha YHT398 package which I believe is the RX-V373 amp and a set of Yamaha NS-PB150 5.1 speakers with active sub.

Have managed to get it all set up and working great for Sky HD and PS3 both via HDMI, sound is great, set it up using the included YPAO mic and auto configuration feature, Wife didn't like the high pitched noises it ran thru during configuration but I am so far impressed with the sound. Just enjoying a bit of Kerrang, much better sound!

One question I have tho, I've got a Wii running on component via the amps AV1 component input and when I switch to that input the TV detects a 576p input but no picture is displayed. Any ideas? No sound from amp either but that could be a setting, I don't know yet as nothing is displayed on screen! I've checked and rechecked the 5 plugs and there all correctly connected.
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Old 18-07-2013, 21:27
grahamlthompson
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hey, just thought I would update you all on this.

I went out today and picked up a Yamaha YHT398 package which I believe is the RX-V373 amp and a set of Yamaha NS-PB150 5.1 speakers with active sub.

Have managed to get it all set up and working great for Sky HD and PS3 both via HDMI, sound is great, set it up using the included YPAO mic and auto configuration feature, Wife didn't like the high pitched noises it ran thru during configuration but I am so far impressed with the sound. Just enjoying a bit of Kerrang, much better sound!

One question I have tho, I've got a Wii running on component via the amps AV1 component input and when I switch to that input the TV detects a 576p input but no picture is displayed. Any ideas? No sound from amp either but that could be a setting, I don't know yet as nothing is displayed on screen! I've checked and rechecked the 5 plugs and there all correctly connected.
Somethings wrong, a Wii outputs 480p (not 576p) on component when you tell it is connected to a high quaiity TV. Can you view the Wii when connected to a TV's component inputs ?
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Old 18-07-2013, 21:46
myromeo
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ok just hooked it direct to the TV and it works fine in 480p and 576i modes. Popped it back in AV1 on amp and nothing. Tried AV2, nothing. Checking in input info both AV1 and AV2 show 'no signal'. any idea?


edit - Turns out I need to hook the TV up via component from the amps component monitor out, it doesn't pass a component input to the hdmi output. guess I need to find me another component cable!
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:04
Deacon1972
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That'll be the problem, no analogue to digital conversion, this is something you normally find higher up the range.

To be honest, you'll be better off with no conversion, some of the conversions I've seen would not be acceptable to me - done right it looks as good as a direct connection, it also saves on another cable, but it comes at a price.
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Old 19-07-2013, 14:07
myromeo
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I found another component cable amongst the spares last night so hooked it up, works spot on, just a shame the amp cant convert A to D as that would save on a cable but its not the end of the world, The wii, PS3 and sky work spot on now. Next challenge is macbook but that should be a doddle as it too uses HDMI.

Tonights challenge is to run the rear speaker cables under carpet, mount the center above the TV (on a bracket fitted to the wall mount holes) and optimize the settings. fun fun fun!
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Old 19-07-2013, 14:17
Deacon1972
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I found another component cable amongst the spares last night so hooked it up, works spot on, just a shame the amp cant convert A to D as that would save on a cable but its not the end of the world, The wii, PS3 and sky work spot on now. Next challenge is macbook but that should be a doddle as it too uses HDMI.

Tonights challenge is to run the rear speaker cables under carpet, mount the center above the TV (on a bracket fitted to the wall mount holes) and optimize the settings. fun fun fun!
Ideally the center speaker should be the same height as the main fronts, that's so when something is panning left to right or right to left across the screen the audio from the front is fired at the listener at the same level. If you can't achieve this it's normally recommended the center speaker is placed below the TV angled slightly upwards. All depends on where the TV is positioned, wall stand for example.

Rule of thumb is - HF drivers of the front speakers should be at ear height when seated, if this is not possible position as close as possible.
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Old 19-07-2013, 20:06
myromeo
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Thanks for the pointers. I've managed to get center mounted appropriately and the front surrounds either side, ran the ypao setup and it seems to have figured it out, sounds well balanced anyway.! Quite impressed by how cool the amp runs too, I expected it to kick out some real heat but it's actually cool to the touch.

So I think that's me all set and ready to stick a bluray on!!
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Old 19-07-2013, 20:13
chrisjr
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Thanks for the pointers. I've managed to get center mounted appropriately and the front surrounds either side, ran the ypao setup and it seems to have figured it out, sounds well balanced anyway.! Quite impressed by how cool the amp runs too, I expected it to kick out some real heat but it's actually cool to the touch.

So I think that's me all set and ready to stick a bluray on!!
You would be surprised just how little power your amp is putting out at normal listening levels. It could actually be in single figure watts into each speaker!
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Old 19-07-2013, 20:29
myromeo
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It's costing less than 1p an hour extra according to our meter so I can quite believe it's barely ticking over! Can't wait to get a good movie fired up and the volume pumped up a bit!
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