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Oswin Clara was in the library?


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Old 20-05-2013, 13:17
Laura_Amanda
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http://lumos5000.tumblr.com/post/507...at-ten-that-is (clear reference picture)

I saw oswin Clara in the library with 10, now oswin said she wanted to see the stars and what not but her first time out he crashed, so how did she end up in the library, same outfit all of that, unless she is from the library. Perhaps she was saved originally. I don't know, this one stumps me. I have so many theories running in my head, perhaps she is the one who sent rivers message to 10 via psychic paper. I'm not sure how Simeon would have thwarted 10s action of saving the library. I need theories even if they are theories it will help my aching confused Brain.
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Old 20-05-2013, 13:56
GingerDoctor
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Hi, I believe this was mentioned elsewhere but sadly that is not the Library. It is believed ( or at least what I believe anyway) to be Gridlock and not the library.

Although I may be wrong
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Old 20-05-2013, 14:45
Laura_Amanda
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Ok did a side by side of gridlock and last nights episode, looks so very familiar as well

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psc8bd6c7d.jpg


So I suppose he saved her from endlessly looping in cars and allowed her to travel. Either way, either scenario he saved her as 10 so she could go to the Dalek asylum to save him.
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Old 20-05-2013, 14:51
Laura_Oswin
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I'm more interested into where Nine came into it. Remember Jenna was in that ITV Titanic series? Nine said he was on the real Titanic at one point. My head canon is that Clara was on the Titantic and saved Nine there.
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Old 20-05-2013, 15:00
johnnysaucepn
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So I suppose he saved her from endlessly looping in cars and allowed her to travel. Either way, either scenario he saved her as 10 so she could go to the Dalek asylum to save him.
Remember these are different Claras. He didn't save her, she saved him. In different places, with different memories, as different people. It was a different person (with a similar personality) that was in Gridlock, from the one that crashed in the Asylum.
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Old 20-05-2013, 15:26
Laura_Amanda
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Remember these are different Claras. He didn't save her, she saved him. In different places, with different memories, as different people. It was a different person (with a similar personality) that was in Gridlock, from the one that crashed in the Asylum.
Yes, I know that. But essetially he did save her in that particular life because almost all of new newyork was in an endless loop, or all enhabitants of the library were saved either way 10 saved oswin, perhaps pervoking her to stop Simeon from destroying this man that had just saved her.
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Old 20-05-2013, 15:28
Laura_Amanda
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I want to add yes I'm assuming gridlock/library Clara oswin is the exact same
Oswin that saved him in aotd being they are wearing the same clothes.
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Old 20-05-2013, 15:44
Corwin
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It's been suggested on here that a lot of the stuff we saw was different memories mixing together in Clara's head.


So while we saw Oswin in the Library/New New York* with the 10th Doctor that was a mixture of two different memories (part of Oswins life and part of a different Clara Echo that met Doc#10).






If Oswin had met Doc#10 then she would have remembered it when she was with Doc#11 on the Dalek Asylum yet there's no indication that she did.


We see another CEcho with two different Doctors (Six and Four) which pretty much confirms the memories are mixing together.

She's the same CEcho as she has the same outfit on.


Edit
She also has the same outfit on for Doc #3 that she has for Docs#2 and 8.



*Or somewhere totally different that just looks a little like the two places.
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Old 20-05-2013, 15:47
ea91
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If Oswin had met Doc#10 then she would have remembered it when she was with Doc#11 on the Dalek Asylum yet there's no indication that she did.
She was obviously teasing him when she said "never met you". She knew who the Doctor was all along (whether she met 10 or not), it would be kind of difficult to help him a million times if she had no clue who he is each time.
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Old 20-05-2013, 16:07
So 3008
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Just because they used The Library / New New York as a background doesn't necessarily mean it was supposed to be The Library / New New York. They were hardly going to waste thousands of pounds commissioning something for a five second shot when stock footage worked perfectly well as a generic futuristic city.
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Old 20-05-2013, 16:24
soulou
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The footage was run during current Clara's voiceovers, which would suggest that it was representing her thought processes at the time. Clara was trying to convey current Clara's confusion not what each echo was actually doing. 1000s of lives running simultaneously and all she really knows is that she has to save the Doctor. I don't think it really matters which echo was where, because in current Clara's head she was everywhere at the same time.
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Old 20-05-2013, 16:52
johnnysaucepn
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She was obviously teasing him when she said "never met you". She knew who the Doctor was all along (whether she met 10 or not), it would be kind of difficult to help him a million times if she had no clue who he is each time.
But I think that's the point. She didn't know. She didn't deliberately crash her spaceship into the Dalek Asylum in order to save him. She was just destined to do so.
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Old 20-05-2013, 18:37
ea91
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But I think that's the point. She didn't know. She didn't deliberately crash her spaceship into the Dalek Asylum in order to save him. She was just destined to do so.
Be that as it may, I think Clara/Oswin at least vaguely knew her purpose and who the Doctor was but perhaps didn't remember the rest of her original life - like Amy in The Wedding of River Song time crash when she knew the Doctor but had no clue who Rory was.
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Old 20-05-2013, 19:38
Laura_Amanda
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I think we should get a mini episode of each Clara life saving each doctor, that would be a treat and answer all these questions
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Old 21-05-2013, 09:06
Sh'boobie
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Clara didn't *save* the Doctor in any of his previous adventures. They still stand as entities completely independant of her.

What Clara's other incarnations *DID DO* however, was prevent the Great Intellegence interfering in those adventures or affecting thier outcome to the Doctor's detriment. Hers' were like adventures that ran paralell to the Doctors, but didn't actually have any impact on them - as Clara was always successful in thwarting the Great Intellegence.

When Clara's path did occasionally brush past the Doctors (as seen in the episode forward) - in every instance but during the Theft of the Tardis - The Asylum of The Daleks - and in Victorian London - he didn't even see, hear or acknowledge her.

So to answer the OP's question. Yes - Clara was in the Library. She wasn't summonded by Psychic Paper. She was there, by the same means she came to be 'in the background' throughout of ALL the Doctors' other adventures. Modern Day Clara placed herself throughout the whole of his Timeline.
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Old 21-05-2013, 09:18
k9fan
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I just don't buy the character of Clara at all; that's just me, most other viewers writing on here seem to love it.
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Old 21-05-2013, 13:39
ocav
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It was confirmed by the Doctor Who Offficial Tumblr that it was the library.
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Old 21-05-2013, 13:47
sebbie3000
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She was obviously teasing him when she said "never met you". She knew who the Doctor was all along (whether she met 10 or not), it would be kind of difficult to help him a million times if she had no clue who he is each time.
That was spelled out - she doesn't know who he is, just that she needs to save him.

And it wasn't an obvious tease. She quite clearly had no idea who he was!
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Old 21-05-2013, 13:56
CD93
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I'm more interested into where Nine came into it. Remember Jenna was in that ITV Titanic series? Nine said he was on the real Titanic at one point. My head canon is that Clara was on the Titantic and saved Nine there.
You have successfully put new meaning behind her three period dramas.
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Old 21-05-2013, 14:11
CoalHillJanitor
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You have successfully put new meaning behind her three period dramas.
Dancing on the Edge is Black Orchid, Room at the Top is... what, The Idiot's Lantern?

Wonder how her time on Waterloo Road fits into all this.
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Old 21-05-2013, 14:18
ea91
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And it wasn't an obvious tease. She quite clearly had no idea who he was!
I don't think that's the case. Whether it was on Moffat's part or Clara's part, Oswin's dismissive "never met you" was blatant foreshadowing. Besides, Clara entered the timeline to save the Doctor, she had to know who he is in order to succeed a million times. Nothing suggests that her memory would have been wiped any more than Amy's was in The Wedding of River Song (where she didn't remember her real life but remembered the Doctor and knew she had to save him).
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Old 21-05-2013, 14:24
CoalHillJanitor
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I don't think that's the case. Whether it was on Moffat's part or Clara's part, Oswin's dismissive "never met you" was blatant foreshadowing. Besides, Clara entered the timeline to save the Doctor, she had to know who he is in order to succeed a million times. Nothing suggests that her memory would have been wiped any more than Amy's was in The Wedding of River Song (where she didn't remember her real life but remembered the Doctor and knew she had to save him).
But the Clara in The Snowmen surely didn't know him.
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Old 21-05-2013, 14:30
Corwin
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But the Clara in The Snowmen surely didn't know him.
She didn't know him but we can clearly see the point where "her destiny" kicks in.


She's about to go back into the Pub but then pauses before changing her mind and chasing after the Doctor.
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Old 21-05-2013, 14:37
CoalHillJanitor
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She didn't know him but we can clearly see the point where "her destiny" kicks in.


She's about to go back into the Pub but then pauses before changing her mind and chasing after the Doctor.
Ah yes, her density.
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Old 21-05-2013, 14:49
ea91
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But the Clara in The Snowmen surely didn't know him.
Again she had to have known who he is, whether Moffat fully intended it that way at the time or not. She didn't seem to have any reaction to meeting him and her epitaph read "Remember Me" obviously at her request. My own interpretation is that deep down she remembered him and this was her chance to have one last adventure with the Doctor so she played along, and obviously the GI went all out on that occasion so she had to anyway.
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