Apple 'among largest tax avoiders in US'

kidspud · 18-02-2015, 13:10

Quote:

"Barack Obama has angered officials in Europe after suggesting that investigations by the European Union into companies like Google and Facebook were "commercially driven."
http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/17/80...d-the-internet

I guess he has to strike first to pre-empt any outrage over that new US corporate tax law, the one designed to repatriate to the US what really should be EU taxes.

I don't suppose the EU will be worried about the 'new U.S. corporate tax tax' as it has no chance of being voted through congress.

alanwarwic · 23-01-2016, 15:13

Well, Google just reached a voluntary, maybe Starbucks like, agreement to pay £130m in extra tax.

That is £12 million for each year covered. We already have 'sweetheart deal', 'derisory' and 'trivial' words banded about for this.
With UK income in the many billions for Google, it is does look hard to see it as otherwise.

The difficulty here for politicians is that corporates appear to have the control over them. Small deals are putting a very difficult financial situation in the spotlight, not really solving anything.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...ness-disaster/

'This gives rise to the second concern. The UK is clearly endorsing tax competition with this deal. In the process it endorses the shift of tax from multinational companies to individuals and harms the cause of equality and fair commercial competition in the process.'

That has always been the reality. It would be really interesting to hear how much of the deficit is down to tax avoidance.

alanwarwic · 30-06-2016, 18:57

Following on from the French raid on Google offices, Spanish tax officials have now raided Google offices.
https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/30/go...x-authorities/

Everything Goes · 30-08-2016, 09:49

Today the EU will publish how much cash they want from Apple. Apple make approximately $18 Billion profit per quarter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37216176

Everything Goes · 30-08-2016, 11:04

Apple have been ordered to pay £11 Billion €13 Billion.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...land-state-aid

konebyvax · 30-08-2016, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Apple have been ordered to pay £11 Billion €13 Billion.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...land-state-aid

Wow. Is the Apple empire starting to crumble like Nokia's did all those years ago? And, anyway, why are people at Apple claiming this ruling is bad news for Jobs??

OK, cheap joke.

Gigabit · 30-08-2016, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Today the EU will publish how much cash they want from Apple. Apple make approximately $18 Billion profit per quarter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37216176

So about $14.5 billion. So about 80% of their quarterly profit!

jonmorris · 30-08-2016, 14:38

Apple's PR is working real hard to get customers and the public on side here with a nice story of how the company invested in Ireland in the 1980s. And the relevance is?

We went mad when some large businesses were able to negotiate lower tax payments here, but I see a fair few people are saying it's unfair.

It is so little money in the grand scheme of things that Apple should just pay and send out a message to other companies that they're the good guys.

Gigabit · 30-08-2016, 14:53

That Apple PR story contradicts itself halfway through!

At first they say Ireland is for research and distribution and that lots of jobs have been created. Then halfway through they say no value is created there. You couldn't make this up.

jonmorris · 30-08-2016, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigabit

That Apple PR story contradicts itself halfway through!

At first they say Ireland is for research and distribution and that lots of jobs have been created. Then halfway through they say no value is created there. You couldn't make this up.

I wonder if they use the same media advisors as Jeremy Corbyn?

Everything Goes · 30-08-2016, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigabit

That Apple PR story contradicts itself halfway through!

At first they say Ireland is for research and distribution and that lots of jobs have been created. Then halfway through they say no value is created there. You couldn't make this up.

That's a funny thing about jobs as part of their tax avoidance having a virtual head office with no employees

Quote:

The probe found that Apple's profits were routed via Ireland to virtual head offices that had no employees, no premises and carried out no real activities.

http://news.sky.com/story/apple-orde...taxes-10557945

mogzyboy · 30-08-2016, 16:22

I'll bet £11bn that they ultimately end up paying far less than £11bn back.

Anyway, the EU should butt out of an individual country's tax affairs. This is basically a test case for tax harmonisation across the Union.

Everything Goes · 30-08-2016, 16:32

Interestingly the Irish government really don't want the money which they could be doing with.

Quote:

Apple’s billions in back taxes could cover the entire annual Irish health budget, build about 100,000 homes for the poor or pay off a chunk of the nation’s debt. So why doesn’t the government want the money?

Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan on Tuesday vowed to fight a European Commission ruling that could force the world’s richest company to pay it at least 13 billion euros ($14.5 billion), more than twice the country’s entire 2015 corporate tax take and equivalent to about $3,000 for every man, woman and child. He drew fire from opposition lawmakers who say Dublin should take the money. For the government, though, the stakes are higher.

The government “will actively try to avoid recouping tax revenue owed to the Irish people,” Matt Carthy, a Sinn Fein member of the European Parliament said in a statement. “There is no justification to challenge a ruling against this deal, and the government should immediately rule out an appeal.”

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-ir...133731091.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016...sion-reaction/

maverickjesus · 30-08-2016, 17:24

The problem is if they don't appeal against having to recover the amount specified, they will be accepting the ruling in principle, which would then apply to the many other dodgy tax setups they are allow multinats to run from Ireland - effectively removing any value in them basing their operations there at all.

It's a really weird position for them to be in, but they only have themselves to blame.

18-02-2015, 13:10	#126
kidspud Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 11,501	Quote: Originally Posted by alanwarwic "Barack Obama has angered officials in Europe after suggesting that investigations by the European Union into companies like Google and Facebook were "commercially driven." http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/17/80...d-the-internet I guess he has to strike first to pre-empt any outrage over that new US corporate tax law, the one designed to repatriate to the US what really should be EU taxes. I don't suppose the EU will be worried about the 'new U.S. corporate tax tax' as it has no chance of being voted through congress.

23-01-2016, 15:13	#127
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Well, Google just reached a voluntary, maybe Starbucks like, agreement to pay £130m in extra tax. That is £12 million for each year covered. We already have 'sweetheart deal', 'derisory' and 'trivial' words banded about for this. With UK income in the many billions for Google, it is does look hard to see it as otherwise. The difficulty here for politicians is that corporates appear to have the control over them. Small deals are putting a very difficult financial situation in the spotlight, not really solving anything. http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...ness-disaster/ 'This gives rise to the second concern. The UK is clearly endorsing tax competition with this deal. In the process it endorses the shift of tax from multinational companies to individuals and harms the cause of equality and fair commercial competition in the process.' That has always been the reality. It would be really interesting to hear how much of the deficit is down to tax avoidance.

30-06-2016, 18:57	#128
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Following on from the French raid on Google offices, Spanish tax officials have now raided Google offices. https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/30/go...x-authorities/

30-08-2016, 09:49	#129
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Today the EU will publish how much cash they want from Apple. Apple make approximately $18 Billion profit per quarter. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37216176

30-08-2016, 11:04	#130
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Apple have been ordered to pay £11 Billion €13 Billion. https://www.theguardian.com/business...land-state-aid

30-08-2016, 14:28	#131
konebyvax Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Ignoringtrollsville Posts: 7,875	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Apple have been ordered to pay £11 Billion €13 Billion. https://www.theguardian.com/business...land-state-aid Wow. Is the Apple empire starting to crumble like Nokia's did all those years ago? And, anyway, why are people at Apple claiming this ruling is bad news for Jobs?? OK, cheap joke.

30-08-2016, 14:34	#132
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Today the EU will publish how much cash they want from Apple. Apple make approximately $18 Billion profit per quarter. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37216176 So about $14.5 billion. So about 80% of their quarterly profit!

30-08-2016, 14:38	#133
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Apple's PR is working real hard to get customers and the public on side here with a nice story of how the company invested in Ireland in the 1980s. And the relevance is? We went mad when some large businesses were able to negotiate lower tax payments here, but I see a fair few people are saying it's unfair. It is so little money in the grand scheme of things that Apple should just pay and send out a message to other companies that they're the good guys.

30-08-2016, 14:53	#134
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	That Apple PR story contradicts itself halfway through! At first they say Ireland is for research and distribution and that lots of jobs have been created. Then halfway through they say no value is created there. You couldn't make this up.

30-08-2016, 15:02	#135
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by Gigabit That Apple PR story contradicts itself halfway through! At first they say Ireland is for research and distribution and that lots of jobs have been created. Then halfway through they say no value is created there. You couldn't make this up. I wonder if they use the same media advisors as Jeremy Corbyn?

30-08-2016, 15:55	#136
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by Gigabit That Apple PR story contradicts itself halfway through! At first they say Ireland is for research and distribution and that lots of jobs have been created. Then halfway through they say no value is created there. You couldn't make this up. That's a funny thing about jobs as part of their tax avoidance having a virtual head office with no employees Quote: The probe found that Apple's profits were routed via Ireland to virtual head offices that had no employees, no premises and carried out no real activities. http://news.sky.com/story/apple-orde...taxes-10557945

30-08-2016, 16:22	#137
mogzyboy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 4,554	I'll bet £11bn that they ultimately end up paying far less than £11bn back. Anyway, the EU should butt out of an individual country's tax affairs. This is basically a test case for tax harmonisation across the Union.

30-08-2016, 16:32	#138
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Interestingly the Irish government really don't want the money which they could be doing with. Quote: Apple’s billions in back taxes could cover the entire annual Irish health budget, build about 100,000 homes for the poor or pay off a chunk of the nation’s debt. So why doesn’t the government want the money? Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan on Tuesday vowed to fight a European Commission ruling that could force the world’s richest company to pay it at least 13 billion euros ($14.5 billion), more than twice the country’s entire 2015 corporate tax take and equivalent to about $3,000 for every man, woman and child. He drew fire from opposition lawmakers who say Dublin should take the money. For the government, though, the stakes are higher. The government “will actively try to avoid recouping tax revenue owed to the Irish people,” Matt Carthy, a Sinn Fein member of the European Parliament said in a statement. “There is no justification to challenge a ruling against this deal, and the government should immediately rule out an appeal.” http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-ir...133731091.html http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016...sion-reaction/

30-08-2016, 17:24	#139
maverickjesus Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 100	The problem is if they don't appeal against having to recover the amount specified, they will be accepting the ruling in principle, which would then apply to the many other dodgy tax setups they are allow multinats to run from Ireland - effectively removing any value in them basing their operations there at all. It's a really weird position for them to be in, but they only have themselves to blame.

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Apple 'among largest tax avoiders in US'