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Helen Flanagan Caught Shoplifting £200 of Boots Products


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Old 27-05-2013, 21:44
Multimedia81
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I thought Helen Flanagan was one of these people who WOULD want to pay for her shopping at Boots, in order to earn the Boots Reward Card points.
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Old 28-05-2013, 01:12
DavetheScot
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Walking out of a shop with £200 worth of unpaid goods is stealing irrespective of whether it was a 'mistake' or not. It might do her good to be charged and stop her from doing it again. If you do something wrong you do need to suffer the consequences; even if you are a silly little airhead who can't seem to fart without having a crisis.
It really isn't stealing if it's a mistake. You are utterly wrong. Stealing is something you do deliberately.

& saying people are 'frequently not charged' is not true - it happens very rarely and it has to be pretty easy to prove i.e. someone who is with a child or children, or a patient or who is very stressed about something.
I know personally of three people who took items from a shop without paying and were stopped but weren't charged. I can't imagine it's that rare.

How in any case would having a child with you be any kind of evidence that you weren't stealing? Do you think shoplifters never take their kids as a disguise?
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Old 28-05-2013, 07:26
The Prumeister
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It really isn't stealing if it's a mistake. You are utterly wrong. Stealing is something you do deliberately.



I know personally of three people who took items from a shop without paying and were stopped but weren't charged. I can't imagine it's that rare.

How in any case would having a child with you be any kind of evidence that you weren't stealing? Do you think shoplifters never take their kids as a disguise?


What?

OK: Let me repeat:

Taking things from a shop WITHOUT PAYING is stealing. Whether the stealing is intentional or a 'mistake', IT. IS. STEALING.
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Old 28-05-2013, 08:51
mimicole
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Silly girl...
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Old 28-05-2013, 20:55
DiamondDoll
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Look at me like............look at me.

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slides...?1369739291940
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Old 28-05-2013, 20:57
DiamondDoll
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What?

OK: Let me repeat:

Taking things from a shop WITHOUT PAYING is stealing. Whether the stealing is intentional or a 'mistake', IT. IS. STEALING.
Course it is.
I was guilty of stealing..................no matter how unintentionally.
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Old 28-05-2013, 21:07
CreamPuff
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verb (past stole /stəʊl/; past participle stolen /ˈstəʊlən/)
1 [with object] take (another personís property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it:
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Old 28-05-2013, 21:22
angelafisher
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As a matter of interest, just how do you get £200 worth of products in a basket. The baskets aren't that big and the stuff ain't that expensive!!
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Old 28-05-2013, 23:38
ItHasPotential
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As a matter of interest, just how do you get £200 worth of products in a basket. The baskets aren't that big and the stuff ain't that expensive!!
just ask dale winton
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Old 29-05-2013, 00:43
Declan_Khan
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What?

OK: Let me repeat:

Taking things from a shop WITHOUT PAYING is stealing. Whether the stealing is intentional or a 'mistake', IT. IS. STEALING.
Don't bother with DaveTheScot. Seriously. Just don't bother. It's a waste of time. He thinks Natalie Cassidy is a hot looking woman. He'll excuse the antics of everything he finds attractive. Don't try to rationalise things to him. I'm sure if Sarah Harding murdered someone in cold blood he'd argue it must have been a kitchen mishap.
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Old 29-05-2013, 02:19
DavetheScot
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Don't bother with DaveTheScot. Seriously. Just don't bother. It's a waste of time. He thinks Natalie Cassidy is a hot looking woman. He'll excuse the antics of everything he finds attractive. Don't try to rationalise things to him. I'm sure if Sarah Harding murdered someone in cold blood he'd argue it must have been a kitchen mishap.
Right. Lets take what you've said one by one.

You don't find Natalie Cassidy attractive, I do. Fine. I have no problem with your opinion, but don't act as if it's fact. Attraction is personal, and one person is not right and another wrong.

Second, I do not and never have excused the actions of those I find attractive. That is an outright lie. I have certainly defended them sometimes against criticism I believe unwarranted, as here, but you'll find I criticise them elsewhere. I find Cheryl Cole attractive, but have criticised her for her assault on the toilet attendant; I have never defended that and never would. I find Lindsay Lohan attractive, but have never defended her lifestyle (I have expressed sympathy for her, but that's another matter). You are being dishonest.

Third, I don't even find Sarah Harding attractive, particularly, so why mention her at all?

Fourth, your post is a personal attack on another poster and utterly irrelevant to the discussion. As you'll see, me and Prumeister were not disputing so much whether Helen Flanagan was actually intentionally taking the items without paying - neither of us know, though it seems to have been carried openly, which suggests a mistake to me - but whether it was stealing even if it was unintentional.

As you will see, CreamPuff has provided a dictionary definition which proves me correct. Your intervention, designed at suggesting my point of view - my factually correct point of view - was some kind of trolling that couldn't be treated seriously, shows you up as what you are.
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Old 29-05-2013, 06:38
The Prumeister
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verb (past stole /stəʊl/; past participle stolen /ˈstəʊlən/)
1 [with object] take (another personís property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it:


Another definition here:

to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance:
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Old 29-05-2013, 07:50
MisterDuck
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What?

OK: Let me repeat:

Taking things from a shop WITHOUT PAYING is stealing. Whether the stealing is intentional or a 'mistake', IT. IS. STEALING.
Sorry, but I'm afraid you're just plain wrong, and your repetition, shouting and full stops won't make you any less wrong.

Google for the Theft Act 1978, paying particular attention to Section 3 paragraph 1. Then check out the legal meanings of "mens rea" and "dishonesty."
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Old 29-05-2013, 07:54
The Prumeister
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Sorry, but I'm afraid you're just plain wrong, and your repetition, shouting and full stops won't make you any less wrong.

Google for the Theft Act 1978, paying particular attention to Section 3 paragraph 1. Then check out the legal meanings of "mens rea" and "dishonesty."


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stealing?s=t
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Old 29-05-2013, 08:01
MisterDuck
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What of it? Anyone can find *something* on the interweb which supports their point of view (however incompletely) if they try hard enough.

I'll stick with English law when we're talking about alleged crimes in England thanks, not some dubious American dictionary.
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Old 29-05-2013, 09:08
The Prumeister
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What of it? Anyone can find *something* on the interweb which supports their point of view (however incompletely) if they try hard enough.

I'll stick with English law when we're talking about alleged crimes in England thanks, not some dubious American dictionary.


Fine by me

& yes, here is the section you advised me to find:

3.-(1) Subject to subsection (3) below, a person who, know
ing that payment on the spot for any goods supplied or service
done is required or expected from him, dishonestly makes off
without having paid as required or expected and with intent to
avoid payment of the amount due shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) For purposes of this section "payment on the spot "
includes payment at the time of collecting goods on which work
has been done or in respect of which service has been provided.
(3) Subsection (1) above shall not apply where the supply of
the goods or the doing of the service is contrary to law, or
where the service done is such that payment is not legally
enforceable.
(4) Any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is,



This is all very well but it is talking about stealing as an offence within the law and not technically as the definition of the word per se. You seem like a pedantic sort of fellow so thought it was best to clear this up.

Stealing, as the literal definition of the word, means to take whether insiduously or by accident. Of course, we do not know if Flanagan will be charged with anything but the fact remains that she walked out of a shop without paying which is actually stealing.
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Old 29-05-2013, 10:40
MisterDuck
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This is all very well but it is talking about stealing as an offence within the law and not technically as the definition of the word per se. You seem like a pedantic sort of fellow so thought it was best to clear this up.

Stealing, as the literal definition of the word, means to take whether insiduously or by accident. Of course, we do not know if Flanagan will be charged with anything but the fact remains that she walked out of a shop without paying which is actually stealing.
You managed to find one online citation which (sort of) supports your opinion, and then only by omission. There are plenty more which do in fact specify the critical aspect of intent.

Oxford Dictionaries
verb (past stole /stəʊl/; past participle stolen /ˈstəʊlən/)

1 [with object] take (another personís property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it:thieves stole her bicycle
Merriam Webster
transitive verb
1.to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car>
As for me being pedantic... well, it's you who are now trying to draw a semantic distinction between the actual crime of theft and a wider definition of "stealing." Yes, the verb "to steal" can be used in many other senses, such as "Boots stole a march on the competition with their new product line" or from your own link that you (partially) quoted: "to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend." Within the context of this thread though, it's pretty obvious that we're discussing whether or not this person committed an offence by taking goods from the shop without paying from them.

I'm glad you now have a better understanding of the law, anyway. My time hasn't been entirely wasted.
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Old 29-05-2013, 11:37
The Prumeister
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You managed to find one online citation which (sort of) supports your opinion, and then only by omission. There are plenty more which do in fact specify the critical aspect of intent.

Oxford Dictionaries


Merriam Webster


As for me being pedantic... well, it's you who are now trying to draw a semantic distinction between the actual crime of theft and a wider definition of "stealing." Yes, the verb "to steal" can be used in many other senses, such as "Boots stole a march on the competition with their new product line" or from your own link that you (partially) quoted: "to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend." Within the context of this thread though, it's pretty obvious that we're discussing whether or not this person committed an offence by taking goods from the shop without paying from them.

I'm glad you now have a better understanding of the law, anyway. My time hasn't been entirely wasted.



Mine neither. Next time I want a supercilious diatribe when discussing a minor Z Lister's misdemeanours, I shall know where to come
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Old 29-05-2013, 12:33
MisterDuck
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Mine neither. Next time I want a supercilious diatribe when discussing a minor Z Lister's misdemeanours, I shall know where to come
Of course, always happy to help.
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Old 30-05-2013, 11:47
offtotheraces
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Don't bother with DaveTheScot. Seriously. Just don't bother. It's a waste of time. He thinks Natalie Cassidy is a hot looking woman. He'll excuse the antics of everything he finds attractive. Don't try to rationalise things to him. I'm sure if Sarah Harding murdered someone in cold blood he'd argue it must have been a kitchen mishap.
It's rather unfair to single Dave out. There are a few "white knights" in this forum but you're acting like Dave's the only one.

It IS an annoying trait for a forum member to have, though.
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Old 30-05-2013, 13:42
DiamondDoll
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Think I'm losing the will to live after reading all that.

What on earth is so hard to understand about walking out of a shop with out paying is theft?
It seems so simple to me.
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Old 30-05-2013, 13:57
offtotheraces
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Think I'm losing the will to live after reading all that.

What on earth is so hard to understand about walking out of a shop with out paying is theft?
It seems so simple to me.
It's bizarre how people seem to really have it in for Helen with this one particular incident. I'm no fan of her but come on, you guys. You're being ridiculous.
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Old 30-05-2013, 14:00
theonlyweeman
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I could understand accidentally walking out with a small item (it would still be theft, even though it was accidental), but how does one walk out a store with £200 worth of goods and not realise?!
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Old 30-05-2013, 14:19
offtotheraces
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I could understand accidentally walking out with a small item (it would still be theft, even though it was accidental), but how does one walk out a store with £200 worth of goods and not realise?!
I agree but it does seem like Helen really IS that dippy. It's not hard to believe with her, honestly.
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Old 30-05-2013, 14:43
ecckles
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Does anyone seriously believe that Flanagan cares what her critics are saying about her. While she's depositing her dosh down the bank her critics are down the `Wonga` shop seeing how much they can borrow this week
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