Are 3 throttling now?

FortKnox · 28-05-2013, 17:38

Quote:

If it is congested the issue is backhaul.. unless they can microwave it to a a recently upgraded mast (even the dish needs planning permission, which takes around 6 months) the issue is getting fibre to the masts.. it will come (either microwave backhaul or fibre) but they can't just make it faster over night in rural locations. As stated be glad you have basic 3G...

Well Three did ring me back today with confirmation that the mast is still congested. Again no time frame for a fix.

Backhaul could be the problem I suppose. Because Pontardawe is not a fibre area and is "Under Evaluation". Clydach which is 10mins away will not be getting fibre until the end of 2014 according to BT. Nearest Area with Fibre would be either Morriston/Swansea or Neath. Which are both around 10 miles away from Pontardawe. Could they microwave a signal that far?

But then again at 5am in the morning when walking to work. I can get speeds of up to 2000kbs down and 500kb up. It just when it hits the day time such as 8am till midnight it goes as slow as 50kb down. So could it be capacity as "wavejockglw" suggested?

Just to put it out there I'm not bashing 3 at all. I happen to think there service is quite good. Except for the little problem of Pontardawe. There speeds are brilliant in Swansea. Me and my friend get a consistent speed of around 3000kb down on the beach and around 2000kb down walking through town. No slow downs at all. But then again that is a fibre area.

The Lord Lucan · 28-05-2013, 18:59

BT Infinity fibre and EE/Three's backhaul are in no way related. They use a different supplier anyways.

'Capacity' is backhaul. It will be upgraded at some point, unlikely to be in the very near future.

FortKnox · 28-05-2013, 19:03

Okay. Well its just a wait and see game now then. Thanks Lucan.

wavejockglw · 29-05-2013, 00:04

This is the issue. (Note the signal strength).

I am not wasting my time with endless posts of the same evidence. The speed shown is a fact and whether some choose to disbelieve it is up to themselves.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13179922.jpg

jabbamk1 · 29-05-2013, 00:35

Signal strength means nothing.

Have you tried a different sim in the handset like i suggested? That is the ONLY reliable evidence.

Also if he is getting these speeds 24/7 it is unlikely to be throttling as three are known to only throttle at peak times on no one plan tariffs/if t&c is broken.

wavejockglw · 29-05-2013, 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabbamk1

Signal strength means nothing.

Have you tried a different sim in the handset like i suggested? That is the ONLY reliable evidence.

Also if he is getting these speeds 24/7 it is unlikely to be throttling as three are known to only throttle at peak times on no one plan tariffs/if t&c is broken.

Not sure if the speed is quite as slow at his home location as it was on the screenshot posted but it is still less than 56Kbps. I will get a fresh screenshot and post it to confirm. Meanwhile we did test the phone in a different location and it got around 2Mbps which suggests the phone is fine as that is typical for 3 in that area normally. It looks like the home location could be the issue, either a fualt, local congestion or even local traffic management? If the performance remains the same on the iPhone at the location I will take my dongle there and test it to see how it performs.

Everything Goes · 29-05-2013, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

This is the issue. (Note the signal strength).

I am not wasting my time with endless posts of the same evidence. The speed shown is a fact and whether some choose to disbelieve it is up to themselves.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13179922.jpg

Still using the unreliable Edinburgh speed test you were already advised against using by The Lord Lucan and even you admitted it wasn't a good one to test

jabbamk1 · 29-05-2013, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

Not sure if the speed is quite as slow at his home location as it was on the screenshot posted but it is still less than 56Kbps. I will get a fresh screenshot and post it to confirm. Meanwhile we did test the phone in a different location and it got around 2Mbps which suggests the phone is fine as that is typical for 3 in that area normally. It looks like the home location could be the issue, either a fualt, local congestion or even local traffic management? If the performance remains the same on the iPhone at the location I will take my dongle there and test it to see how it performs.

Sounds like a problem with his home location. Although you still haven't done what i or lord lucan suggested.

wavejockglw · 29-05-2013, 13:56

Firstly the Edinburgh test server is only marginally worse than others and is by far the closest to Glasgow. My home BB tests using Edinburgh are about 1Mbps less than Maidstone. I doubt that the Edinburgh SpeedTest server is a significant factor with regards to the issue being discussed in this thread.

So as promised my friend did another test today. This time on the way to his work with the test conducted in Merchant City Glasgow.

I could not believe the result sent to me! (See image below). Calls to 3 CS ongoing but as yet no hint of an explanation let alone a resolution.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13182412.jpg

jabbamk1 · 29-05-2013, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavejockglw

Firstly the Edinburgh test server is only marginally worse than others and is by far the closest to Glasgow. My home BB tests using Edinburgh are about 1Mbps less than Maidstone. I doubt that the Edinburgh SpeedTest server is a significant factor with regards to the issue being discussed in this thread.

So as promised my friend did another test today. This time on the way to his work with the test conducted in Merchant City Glasgow.

I could not believe the result sent to me! (See image below). Calls to 3 CS ongoing but as yet no hint of an explanation let alone a resolution.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13182412.jpg

Are you just going to ignore me....

wavejockglw · 29-05-2013, 14:36

I have already stated I will investigate further. That may involve me trying my dongle in the same location or I may try another SIM. I don't really have a great deal of time to become deeply involved in this issue chasing across a city gathering evidence. It should be balatently obvious to 3 themselves what leavel of service their customer is receiving. We have already established it's not a handset issue and the speed on the network is OK in some locations but not usable in others presently with the iPhone on that SIM.

The Lord Lucan · 29-05-2013, 16:21

Why do you never link to the actual link the app gives you, instead uploading a screen shot...?

wavejockglw · 29-05-2013, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

Why do you never link to the actual link the app gives you, instead uploading a screen shot...?

Because it's not my phone, as I have clearly explained several times! I have been sent the image of the test using viber and download it then post it to a free site so it can be viewed on the forum. Is that not sufficient? There have been plenty of instances of this being done to illustrate networks speeds previously without it being questioned. The network ID and the time of the test etc is clearly visable on each of the iPhone app screen shots.

*MikeB* · 29-05-2013, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by FortKnox

Well Three did ring me back today with confirmation that the mast is still congested. Again no time frame for a fix.

Backhaul could be the problem I suppose. Because Pontardawe is not a fibre area and is "Under Evaluation". Clydach which is 10mins away will not be getting fibre until the end of 2014 according to BT. Nearest Area with Fibre would be either Morriston/Swansea or Neath. Which are both around 10 miles away from Pontardawe. Could they microwave a signal that far?

But then again at 5am in the morning when walking to work. I can get speeds of up to 2000kbs down and 500kb up. It just when it hits the day time such as 8am till midnight it goes as slow as 50kb down. So could it be capacity as "wavejockglw" suggested?

Just to put it out there I'm not bashing 3 at all. I happen to think there service is quite good. Except for the little problem of Pontardawe. There speeds are brilliant in Swansea. Me and my friend get a consistent speed of around 3000kb down on the beach and around 2000kb down walking through town. No slow downs at all. But then again that is a fibre area.

Don't compare FTTC areas with non-FTTC areas. BT's FTTC roll-out doesn't really affect backhaul to mobile sites.

They have a contract with mobile providers and will work out the best way to get fast backhaul to the site. They can run fibre for miles through existing ducts if they have to.

Though yes, being in a FTTC area does mean there will be aggregation nodes nearby making it cheaper I suppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

BT Infinity fibre and EE/Three's backhaul are in no way related. They use a different supplier anyways. .

What do you mean by they use a different supplier?

natbike · 29-05-2013, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by *MikeB*

What do you mean by they use a different supplier?

Big businesses do not tend to use retail fibre for critical services. There are several wholesale providers offering OC12/OC24/OC48/OC192 (0.62/1.2/2.4/9.9 Gbit) connections as well as the short distance EES (10/100/1000 Mbit) services, which are slightly cheaper.

Thine Wonk · 29-05-2013, 20:57

I love the fact he's complained in the past when people have posted fast 3 screenshots wanting proof that the screenshots were indeed 3 and asking for the actual speedtest link. Another example of not doing what you insist others do. He also admits deliberately using speed test servers that give slower results and using the slowest speedtest server in the examples posted.

If you use the Vodafone speed test you tend to get much faster results, as some of the speed test servers aren't very good. Another test is to just download a couple of files like Linux ISO's at the same time and see what speeds you get added together and then cancel them once you've seen the download speeds.

*MikeB* · 29-05-2013, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by natbike

Big businesses do not tend to use retail fibre for critical services. There are several wholesale providers offering OC12/OC24/OC48/OC192 (0.62/1.2/2.4/9.9 Gbit) connections as well as the short distance EES (10/100/1000 Mbit) services, which are slightly cheaper.

But it definitely says in BT's end of year presentation that one of the benefits of the FTTC rollout is that it increases fibre Ethernet product availability/price as it brings fibre closer to where it is wanted.

And here's my speed test from Three. Fantastic!

http://www.speedtest.net/iphone/554387131.png

The Lord Lucan · 29-05-2013, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by *MikeB*

What do you mean by they use a different supplier?

MBNL ie EE/Three do not use BT for any of the backhaul with sites that are being upgraded. (Sure they use it still at non upgraded sites hence the crappy speeds as it's a legacy backhaul for 2G and plain old 3G (ie pre HSPA etc)

Fujitsu Virgin with it's SyncE Gigabit product is what they are using at all sites now (upgraded) and in future upgrades that are currently inline/progress. Where there is no upgrade option they will Microwave even daisy chain microwave to the nearest site and upgrade that host site to faster than 1Gig ie 10-100.

This is a business service that is unrelated to Infinity or even Virgins own consumer fibre product. As i know of at least Three cities where there are no Infinity or Virgin but they have hooked up a lot of the MBNL sites to SyncE at 1Gigbit...

It is this that is giving Three and EE especially on 4GEEEEE the advantage over the others especially on ping & upload.

BT currently do not have a SyncE service yet.

*MikeB* · 29-05-2013, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

MBNL ie EE/Three do not use BT for any of the backhaul with sites that are being upgraded. (Sure they use it still at non upgraded sites hence the crappy speeds as it's a legacy backhaul for 2G and plain old 3G (ie pre HSPA etc)

Fujitsu Virgin with it's SyncE Gigabit product is what they are using at all sites now (upgraded) and in future upgrades that are currently inline/progress. Where there is no upgrade option they will Microwave even daisy chain microwave to the nearest site and upgrade that host site to faster than 1Gig ie 10-100.

This is a business service that is unrelated to Infinity or even Virgins own consumer fibre product. As i know of at least Three cities where there are no Infinity or Virgin but they have hooked up a lot of the MBNL sites to SyncE at 1Gigbit...

It is this that is giving Three and EE especially on 4GEEEEE the advantage over the others especially on ping & upload.

BT currently do not have a SyncE service yet.

Not this again, I'm aware of the fact they use Virgin Media but we've already established that Virgin are using BT dark fibre for that product anyway in a lot of cases. But with Virgin's kit at the other end (rather than BT's). Lets not repeat the exact same discussion again! Please.... I can't bear it

The Lord Lucan · 29-05-2013, 22:26

No, a few people speculated.. but they are not. Only used for legacy. BT do not allow services like you suggest but they do allow fibre to be blown down their ducts which i do believe someone said they don't. I've seen it done with my own eyes by a Fujitsu engineer.

*MikeB* · 29-05-2013, 22:33

Er, yes they do allow services like I suggested. How do you think LLU backhaul works for residential broadband?

The Lord Lucan · 29-05-2013, 22:57

LLU backhaul is an actual service provided by BT (Well OR) which includes management, maintenance etc of the Fibre. However Sky and others actually use other providers (Easynet/C&W and it's not dark fibre it's a managed product provided by the....provider).

BT do not have, maintain or provide an SyncE service... Fibre is blown down their ducts. It's why many MBNL sites that are fibred already by BT are still running at crap (well not as fast as expected) speeds until Fujitsu does it themselves. Hence why semi-rural speeds have stalled. BT would have been a faster option (upgrade of fibre comms equipment etc) but they wanted a ridiculous and didn't have what EE specifically (for LTE-A) wanted. EE/Three is Fujitsu exclusive.

Also a slight issue that explained before BT/OR DO NOT HAVE A DARK FIBRE SERVICE! C&W and Virgin also do not sell Dark Fibre. So much are they protective of their own products over their own fibre, that they manage and use equipment that they have stalled the roll out of an open dark fibre service in Birmingham....

The EU/Ofcom is currently looking into wether it should force either of them (BTOR/VM) to allow use of their dark fibre.

So to summarise BT do not sell Dark Fibre = No just sticking VMF equipment on BT Fibre to do SyncE and labelling it Virgin Fujistu.

BT do not have a SyncE service = BT cannot be provider.

Hopefully i've explained that clearly.. pretty tired.

*MikeB* · 30-05-2013, 07:19

You've explained it fine but I'm still doubtful whether you are entirely correct.

You say Fujitsu are blowing fibre through BT's ducts, well that's called PIA and that cannot be used for backhaul so I'm not sure how they can be.

Have any mobile sites that aren't in Virgin Media Business's service area (ie 50% of UK) actually been upgraded yet? Because on the Virgin's own Q&A it says they will only be able to cover 50% of the UK with their mobile backhaul service.

japaul · 30-05-2013, 13:33

BT PIA is for fixed only, not mobile. Something all the networks have complained about.

*MikeB* · 30-05-2013, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by japaul

BT PIA is for fixed only, not mobile. Something all the networks have complained about.

Yes exactly, PIA would help mobile networks loads.

28-05-2013, 17:38	#26
FortKnox Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Newtown, Powys Posts: 111	Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan If it is congested the issue is backhaul.. unless they can microwave it to a a recently upgraded mast (even the dish needs planning permission, which takes around 6 months) the issue is getting fibre to the masts.. it will come (either microwave backhaul or fibre) but they can't just make it faster over night in rural locations. As stated be glad you have basic 3G... Well Three did ring me back today with confirmation that the mast is still congested. Again no time frame for a fix. Backhaul could be the problem I suppose. Because Pontardawe is not a fibre area and is "Under Evaluation". Clydach which is 10mins away will not be getting fibre until the end of 2014 according to BT. Nearest Area with Fibre would be either Morriston/Swansea or Neath. Which are both around 10 miles away from Pontardawe. Could they microwave a signal that far? But then again at 5am in the morning when walking to work. I can get speeds of up to 2000kbs down and 500kb up. It just when it hits the day time such as 8am till midnight it goes as slow as 50kb down. So could it be capacity as "wavejockglw" suggested? Just to put it out there I'm not bashing 3 at all. I happen to think there service is quite good. Except for the little problem of Pontardawe. There speeds are brilliant in Swansea. Me and my friend get a consistent speed of around 3000kb down on the beach and around 2000kb down walking through town. No slow downs at all. But then again that is a fibre area.

28-05-2013, 18:59	#27
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	BT Infinity fibre and EE/Three's backhaul are in no way related. They use a different supplier anyways. 'Capacity' is backhaul. It will be upgraded at some point, unlikely to be in the very near future.

28-05-2013, 19:03	#28
FortKnox Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Newtown, Powys Posts: 111	Okay. Well its just a wait and see game now then. Thanks Lucan.

29-05-2013, 00:04	#29
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	This is the issue. (Note the signal strength). I am not wasting my time with endless posts of the same evidence. The speed shown is a fact and whether some choose to disbelieve it is up to themselves. http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13179922.jpg

29-05-2013, 00:35	#30
jabbamk1 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,759	Signal strength means nothing. Have you tried a different sim in the handset like i suggested? That is the ONLY reliable evidence. Also if he is getting these speeds 24/7 it is unlikely to be throttling as three are known to only throttle at peak times on no one plan tariffs/if t&c is broken.

29-05-2013, 03:37	#31
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	Quote: Originally Posted by jabbamk1 Signal strength means nothing. Have you tried a different sim in the handset like i suggested? That is the ONLY reliable evidence. Also if he is getting these speeds 24/7 it is unlikely to be throttling as three are known to only throttle at peak times on no one plan tariffs/if t&c is broken. Not sure if the speed is quite as slow at his home location as it was on the screenshot posted but it is still less than 56Kbps. I will get a fresh screenshot and post it to confirm. Meanwhile we did test the phone in a different location and it got around 2Mbps which suggests the phone is fine as that is typical for 3 in that area normally. It looks like the home location could be the issue, either a fualt, local congestion or even local traffic management? If the performance remains the same on the iPhone at the location I will take my dongle there and test it to see how it performs.

29-05-2013, 11:24	#32
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by wavejockglw This is the issue. (Note the signal strength). I am not wasting my time with endless posts of the same evidence. The speed shown is a fact and whether some choose to disbelieve it is up to themselves. http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13179922.jpg Still using the unreliable Edinburgh speed test you were already advised against using by The Lord Lucan and even you admitted it wasn't a good one to test

29-05-2013, 12:27	#33
jabbamk1 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,759	Quote: Originally Posted by wavejockglw Not sure if the speed is quite as slow at his home location as it was on the screenshot posted but it is still less than 56Kbps. I will get a fresh screenshot and post it to confirm. Meanwhile we did test the phone in a different location and it got around 2Mbps which suggests the phone is fine as that is typical for 3 in that area normally. It looks like the home location could be the issue, either a fualt, local congestion or even local traffic management? If the performance remains the same on the iPhone at the location I will take my dongle there and test it to see how it performs. Sounds like a problem with his home location. Although you still haven't done what i or lord lucan suggested.

29-05-2013, 13:56	#34
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	Firstly the Edinburgh test server is only marginally worse than others and is by far the closest to Glasgow. My home BB tests using Edinburgh are about 1Mbps less than Maidstone. I doubt that the Edinburgh SpeedTest server is a significant factor with regards to the issue being discussed in this thread. So as promised my friend did another test today. This time on the way to his work with the test conducted in Merchant City Glasgow. I could not believe the result sent to me! (See image below). Calls to 3 CS ongoing but as yet no hint of an explanation let alone a resolution. http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13182412.jpg

29-05-2013, 14:19	#35
jabbamk1 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,759	Quote: Originally Posted by wavejockglw Firstly the Edinburgh test server is only marginally worse than others and is by far the closest to Glasgow. My home BB tests using Edinburgh are about 1Mbps less than Maidstone. I doubt that the Edinburgh SpeedTest server is a significant factor with regards to the issue being discussed in this thread. So as promised my friend did another test today. This time on the way to his work with the test conducted in Merchant City Glasgow. I could not believe the result sent to me! (See image below). Calls to 3 CS ongoing but as yet no hint of an explanation let alone a resolution. http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/13182412.jpg Are you just going to ignore me....

29-05-2013, 14:36	#36
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	I have already stated I will investigate further. That may involve me trying my dongle in the same location or I may try another SIM. I don't really have a great deal of time to become deeply involved in this issue chasing across a city gathering evidence. It should be balatently obvious to 3 themselves what leavel of service their customer is receiving. We have already established it's not a handset issue and the speed on the network is OK in some locations but not usable in others presently with the iPhone on that SIM.

29-05-2013, 16:21	#37
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	Why do you never link to the actual link the app gives you, instead uploading a screen shot...?

29-05-2013, 18:01	#38
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan Why do you never link to the actual link the app gives you, instead uploading a screen shot...? Because it's not my phone, as I have clearly explained several times! I have been sent the image of the test using viber and download it then post it to a free site so it can be viewed on the forum. Is that not sufficient? There have been plenty of instances of this being done to illustrate networks speeds previously without it being questioned. The network ID and the time of the test etc is clearly visable on each of the iPhone app screen shots.

29-05-2013, 18:24	#39
MikeB Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 4,807	Quote: Originally Posted by FortKnox Well Three did ring me back today with confirmation that the mast is still congested. Again no time frame for a fix. Backhaul could be the problem I suppose. Because Pontardawe is not a fibre area and is "Under Evaluation". Clydach which is 10mins away will not be getting fibre until the end of 2014 according to BT. Nearest Area with Fibre would be either Morriston/Swansea or Neath. Which are both around 10 miles away from Pontardawe. Could they microwave a signal that far? But then again at 5am in the morning when walking to work. I can get speeds of up to 2000kbs down and 500kb up. It just when it hits the day time such as 8am till midnight it goes as slow as 50kb down. So could it be capacity as "wavejockglw" suggested? Just to put it out there I'm not bashing 3 at all. I happen to think there service is quite good. Except for the little problem of Pontardawe. There speeds are brilliant in Swansea. Me and my friend get a consistent speed of around 3000kb down on the beach and around 2000kb down walking through town. No slow downs at all. But then again that is a fibre area. Don't compare FTTC areas with non-FTTC areas. BT's FTTC roll-out doesn't really affect backhaul to mobile sites. They have a contract with mobile providers and will work out the best way to get fast backhaul to the site. They can run fibre for miles through existing ducts if they have to. Though yes, being in a FTTC area does mean there will be aggregation nodes nearby making it cheaper I suppose. Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan BT Infinity fibre and EE/Three's backhaul are in no way related. They use a different supplier anyways. . What do you mean by they use a different supplier?

29-05-2013, 20:37	#40
natbike Forum Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 475	Quote: Originally Posted by MikeB What do you mean by they use a different supplier? Big businesses do not tend to use retail fibre for critical services. There are several wholesale providers offering OC12/OC24/OC48/OC192 (0.62/1.2/2.4/9.9 Gbit) connections as well as the short distance EES (10/100/1000 Mbit) services, which are slightly cheaper.

29-05-2013, 20:57	#41
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	I love the fact he's complained in the past when people have posted fast 3 screenshots wanting proof that the screenshots were indeed 3 and asking for the actual speedtest link. Another example of not doing what you insist others do. He also admits deliberately using speed test servers that give slower results and using the slowest speedtest server in the examples posted. If you use the Vodafone speed test you tend to get much faster results, as some of the speed test servers aren't very good. Another test is to just download a couple of files like Linux ISO's at the same time and see what speeds you get added together and then cancel them once you've seen the download speeds.

29-05-2013, 21:53	#42
MikeB Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 4,807	Quote: Originally Posted by natbike Big businesses do not tend to use retail fibre for critical services. There are several wholesale providers offering OC12/OC24/OC48/OC192 (0.62/1.2/2.4/9.9 Gbit) connections as well as the short distance EES (10/100/1000 Mbit) services, which are slightly cheaper. But it definitely says in BT's end of year presentation that one of the benefits of the FTTC rollout is that it increases fibre Ethernet product availability/price as it brings fibre closer to where it is wanted. And here's my speed test from Three. Fantastic! http://www.speedtest.net/iphone/554387131.png

29-05-2013, 22:05	#43
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	Quote: Originally Posted by MikeB What do you mean by they use a different supplier? MBNL ie EE/Three do not use BT for any of the backhaul with sites that are being upgraded. (Sure they use it still at non upgraded sites hence the crappy speeds as it's a legacy backhaul for 2G and plain old 3G (ie pre HSPA etc) Fujitsu Virgin with it's SyncE Gigabit product is what they are using at all sites now (upgraded) and in future upgrades that are currently inline/progress. Where there is no upgrade option they will Microwave even daisy chain microwave to the nearest site and upgrade that host site to faster than 1Gig ie 10-100. This is a business service that is unrelated to Infinity or even Virgins own consumer fibre product. As i know of at least Three cities where there are no Infinity or Virgin but they have hooked up a lot of the MBNL sites to SyncE at 1Gigbit... It is this that is giving Three and EE especially on 4GEEEEE the advantage over the others especially on ping & upload. BT currently do not have a SyncE service yet.

29-05-2013, 22:11	#44
MikeB Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 4,807	Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan MBNL ie EE/Three do not use BT for any of the backhaul with sites that are being upgraded. (Sure they use it still at non upgraded sites hence the crappy speeds as it's a legacy backhaul for 2G and plain old 3G (ie pre HSPA etc) Fujitsu Virgin with it's SyncE Gigabit product is what they are using at all sites now (upgraded) and in future upgrades that are currently inline/progress. Where there is no upgrade option they will Microwave even daisy chain microwave to the nearest site and upgrade that host site to faster than 1Gig ie 10-100. This is a business service that is unrelated to Infinity or even Virgins own consumer fibre product. As i know of at least Three cities where there are no Infinity or Virgin but they have hooked up a lot of the MBNL sites to SyncE at 1Gigbit... It is this that is giving Three and EE especially on 4GEEEEE the advantage over the others especially on ping & upload. BT currently do not have a SyncE service yet. Not this again, I'm aware of the fact they use Virgin Media but we've already established that Virgin are using BT dark fibre for that product anyway in a lot of cases. But with Virgin's kit at the other end (rather than BT's). Lets not repeat the exact same discussion again! Please.... I can't bear it

29-05-2013, 22:26	#45
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	No, a few people speculated.. but they are not. Only used for legacy. BT do not allow services like you suggest but they do allow fibre to be blown down their ducts which i do believe someone said they don't. I've seen it done with my own eyes by a Fujitsu engineer.

29-05-2013, 22:33	#46
MikeB Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 4,807	Er, yes they do allow services like I suggested. How do you think LLU backhaul works for residential broadband?

DS Forums

Are 3 throttling now?

29-05-2013, 22:57	#47
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	LLU backhaul is an actual service provided by BT (Well OR) which includes management, maintenance etc of the Fibre. However Sky and others actually use other providers (Easynet/C&W and it's not dark fibre it's a managed product provided by the....provider). BT do not have, maintain or provide an SyncE service... Fibre is blown down their ducts. It's why many MBNL sites that are fibred already by BT are still running at crap (well not as fast as expected) speeds until Fujitsu does it themselves. Hence why semi-rural speeds have stalled. BT would have been a faster option (upgrade of fibre comms equipment etc) but they wanted a ridiculous and didn't have what EE specifically (for LTE-A) wanted. EE/Three is Fujitsu exclusive. Also a slight issue that explained before BT/OR DO NOT HAVE A DARK FIBRE SERVICE! C&W and Virgin also do not sell Dark Fibre. So much are they protective of their own products over their own fibre, that they manage and use equipment that they have stalled the roll out of an open dark fibre service in Birmingham.... The EU/Ofcom is currently looking into wether it should force either of them (BTOR/VM) to allow use of their dark fibre. So to summarise BT do not sell Dark Fibre = No just sticking VMF equipment on BT Fibre to do SyncE and labelling it Virgin Fujistu. BT do not have a SyncE service = BT cannot be provider. Hopefully i've explained that clearly.. pretty tired.

30-05-2013, 07:19	#48
MikeB Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 4,807	You've explained it fine but I'm still doubtful whether you are entirely correct. You say Fujitsu are blowing fibre through BT's ducts, well that's called PIA and that cannot be used for backhaul so I'm not sure how they can be. Have any mobile sites that aren't in Virgin Media Business's service area (ie 50% of UK) actually been upgraded yet? Because on the Virgin's own Q&A it says they will only be able to cover 50% of the UK with their mobile backhaul service.

30-05-2013, 13:33	#49
japaul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,662	BT PIA is for fixed only, not mobile. Something all the networks have complained about.

30-05-2013, 16:08	#50
MikeB Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 4,807	Quote: Originally Posted by japaul BT PIA is for fixed only, not mobile. Something all the networks have complained about. Yes exactly, PIA would help mobile networks loads.