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  • The Apprentice
Was Zee sexist or not?
Firespire
30-05-2013
It was mentioned in the boardroom and the programme editor included all the examples in the programme of him disagreeing with ideas from the female candidates so we could follow this storyline.
On his Twitter photos Zee is picking out tweets from other female candidates who are supportive him.
https://twitter.com/OfficialZeeShah/media/grid
I don't know what to believe?
Alrightmate
30-05-2013
I thought so even before it was suggested on the show or mentioned on here.
I thought so as soon as I watched the scene where he wouldn't give Natalie the phone book and the phone.

She was trying her best to be involved but her project manager was denying her the opportunity.
I wonder if this is an emerging tactic in this show that the lads have spoken about because didn't something similar happen last week with Neil as PM?

It was as if Zee saw her as absolutely nothing. She kept asking him to give her the book and the phone but he was sat there fretting about what to do as if there were no other options to solve his problem.
He wasn't even acknowledging her. It was if she was a ghost who was invisible to him.
Zee saw her as completely worthless from what I saw. So much so that he couldn't even bring himself to engage with her in any meaningful way.

It reminded me of way back to the comedy sketch in The Fast Show where the woman played by Arabella Weir each week had the solution to a problem which she expressed to the male characters. They ignore her completely. Then one of the male characters comes up with the very same idea which she had been telling them, as though they've just had a brainwave and it was their own idea.
sutie
30-05-2013
He proved it for me when he said 'Let me talk to Neil.' The look on his face however, said 'Let me talk to an adult.'
Alrightmate
30-05-2013
Originally Posted by Firespire:
“It was mentioned in the boardroom and the programme editor included all the examples in the programme of him disagreeing with ideas from the female candidates so we could follow this storyline.
On his Twitter photos Zee is picking out tweets from other female candidates who are supportive him.
https://twitter.com/OfficialZeeShah/media/grid
I don't know what to believe?”

I clicked on the link and one of those panels has a quote by him that says
Quote:
“"My IQ's 137. 140's a genius"”

Then further down the page
Quote:
“"Your an amateur!”

slouchingthatch
30-05-2013
I think you have to bear in mind that we are shown a carefully edited version of each candidate to fit with the story's narrative. It might have been that Zee had taken lots of advice on board from Leah and Natalie elsewhere, but as this didn't support the reasons for him being fired these were edited out.

Mind you, it's hard to take some of Zee's actions as being anything other than sexist. Bringing the two women back into the boardroom with him - even if he had good reasons for doing so - didn't help either.

Personally, I think Zee probably is a bit of a chauvinist, but that's only one side of the story, which is why I wouldn't rush straight in to condemn him on the basis of a few minutes of television.

I'm a pretty reasonable person who doesn't have any outrageously divisive views on race, gender politics etc but I dare say that if someone followed me around with a camera for a week they could still easily paint me in an unflattering light if they wanted to just by stringing together my worst bits or taking words out of context. Equally, they could put together my best moments and make me look like Mother Teresa. Both versions would still be me, but only one tiny facet of the whole person.
Philip Wales
30-05-2013
I don't think he was out and out sexist, it's just he liked to hear his voice and his voice only, look how he spoke to Jason on the beer task, ok the guy had made a balls up in a pitch, but Zee just went off on one.
Firespire
30-05-2013
I guess what Charlie Brooker's guide to manipulative editing on reality shows tells you to not to believe looks on people faces because of how they are edited into the show as to make you believe one thing rather than another.
Alrightmate
30-05-2013
Originally Posted by slouchingthatch:
“I think you have to bear in mind that we are shown a carefully edited version of each candidate to fit with the story's narrative. It might have been that Zee had taken lots of advice on board from Leah and Natalie elsewhere, but as this didn't support the reasons for him being fired these were edited out.

Mind you, it's hard to take some of Zee's actions as being anything other than sexist. Bringing the two women back into the boardroom with him - even if he had good reasons for doing so - didn't help either.

Personally, I think Zee probably is a bit of a chauvinist, but that's only one side of the story, which is why I wouldn't rush straight in to condemn him on the basis of a few minutes of television.

I'm a pretty reasonable person who doesn't have any outrageously divisive views on race, gender politics etc but I dare say that if someone followed me around with a camera for a week they could still easily paint me in an unflattering light if they wanted to just by stringing together my worst bits or taking words out of context. Equally, they could put together my best moments and make me look like Mother Teresa. Both versions would still be me, but only one tiny facet of the whole person.”

It's true that we have to take into account that what we're watching is a heavily edited reality television programme.
And as with all 'reality' shows they're about creating an engineered reality through various means such as the editing.

So we are basing our opinions on what the show decides to show us. We may be right, we may be wrong. But I don't think we should take it too seriously and end up loving or hating anybody too much. We may have clues and hints which allude towards something, but it is only a partial realty which I don't think we should draw absolute certain conclusions from.

But bearing all that in mind, from what I've seen, which I know isn't a full picture, I think that Zee is probably a chauvinist and somebody I don't think I'd particularly want to meet.
Venetian
30-05-2013
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“It's true that we have to take into account that what we're watching is a heavily edited reality television programme.
And as with all 'reality' shows they're about creating an engineered reality through various means such as the editing.

So we are basing our opinions on what the show decides to show us. We may be right, we may be wrong. But I don't think we should take it too seriously and end up loving or hating anybody too much. We may have clues and hints which allude towards something, but it is only a partial realty which I don't think we should draw absolute certain conclusions from.

But bearing all that in mind, from what I've seen, which I know isn't a full picture, I think that Zee is probably a chauvinist and somebody I don't think I'd particularly want to meet.”

I have to agree. Zee was looking terribly uncomfortable all the way through Your Fired. Yes, he was laughing but it seemed to me through gritted teeth. He is obviously a bright guy but certainly doesn't like anyone, man or woman, telling him he is wrong. That said I did 'enjoy' the tensions between him and Leah and appreciate they were probably highly embellished to make a "better" show.
FlaviaCacake
30-05-2013
Nat said he was sexist based on not opening the door for her, so would she have preferred if he'd held the door then made some comment like ' Let me get that heavy door for you.'. *Said in patronising voice*
slouchingthatch
30-05-2013
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“But I don't think we should take it too seriously and end up loving or hating anybody too much. We may have clues and hints which allude towards something, but it is only a partial realty which I don't think we should draw absolute certain conclusions from.

But bearing all that in mind, from what I've seen, which I know isn't a full picture, I think that Zee is probably a chauvinist and somebody I don't think I'd particularly want to meet.”

I completely agree. It's only a TV show - I think the point at which it stopped trying to teach viewers basic lessons about business has long since passed!

And I also agree with your last point - I don't think I'd be in a hurry to engage Zee in a long conversation should I meet him in real life, even though I'm sure he'd be a much more toned down version of what we see on TV.
lammtarra
30-05-2013
Originally Posted by FlaviaCacake:
“Nat said he was sexist based on not opening the door for her, so would she have preferred if he'd held the door then made some comment like ' Let me get that heavy door for you.'. *Said in patronising voice*”

You may have misunderstood the door complaint.

When groups of people are going through swing doors, it is common courtesy to glance over your shoulder to see where the person behind is, and hold the door if necessary to prevent it swinging back into the next person's face.

Zee did actually hold the door briefly but because he did not look to see where Natalie was, he let it go at just the wrong moment.

It was certainly inconsiderate and probably rude. Whether it was sexist really cannot be decided from one incident in isolation.
FlaviaCacake
30-05-2013
Originally Posted by lammtarra:
“You may have misunderstood the door complaint.

When groups of people are going through swing doors, it is common courtesy to glance over your shoulder to see where the person behind is, and hold the door if necessary to prevent it swinging back into the next person's face.

Zee did actually hold the door briefly but because he did not look to see where Natalie was, he let it go at just the wrong moment.

It was certainly inconsiderate and probably rude. Whether it was sexist really cannot be decided from one incident in isolation.”

No, I DID understand the door comment. My comment is far more sexist than anything Zee did and is meant to look upon women as less than men.

Zee was ignorant and impolite to Natalie but sexist is one hell of a stretch.
whedon247
30-05-2013
no he wasnt

the "let me talk to neil" thing meant he wanted to talk to someone else on the sub team as the sub leader was an idiot who was sabotaging the task, she had 2 boys on her team, he had no other girl to ask!!!!!!! he just wanted to talk to someone competent for crying out loud.

i suppose the apprentice show makers are also sexist because women lost all tasks as a team?

no excuses required, let the best candidate win.
Firespire
30-05-2013
Originally Posted by lammtarra:
“You may have misunderstood the door complaint.

When groups of people are going through swing doors, it is common courtesy to glance over your shoulder to see where the person behind is, and hold the door if necessary to prevent it swinging back into the next person's face.

Zee did actually hold the door briefly but because he did not look to see where Natalie was, he let it go at just the wrong moment.

It was certainly inconsiderate and probably rude. Whether it was sexist really cannot be decided from one incident in isolation.”

The daft thing was Natalie didn't glance back to see if Leah was ok with the door she just walked on to berate Zee, it would have been ironic if Leah hadn't got the door ok and it closed on her too.
whedon247
30-05-2013
Originally Posted by Firespire:
“The daft thing was Natalie didn't glance back to see if Leah was ok with the door she just walked on to berate Zee, it would have been ironic if Leah hadn't got the door ok and it closed on her too.”

doubt she would have been labelled a women hater
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