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Sam from BB6- Was she really that much of a Victim?
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stephen_cheever
04-06-2013
First of I agree when everyone says that her bullying by Lesley was one of BB's more nasty moments. It was clear from day 1 Lesley was jealous of her cause of the attention she got from the guys in the house. I did feel sorry for her as Lesley just went on the rampage to make her stay awful.

But...

Sam was no saint in BB6, she made her situation more difficult by just sticking herself to Maxwell and Anthony from Day 1. She loved the attention but even they got bored with her.I don't even think she made a effort to get to know the other housemates, which was bought up by a few in the Diary room. After Saskia discarded her from Team Saskia, she was pretty much on her apart from Science who tried to make her feel welcome.. No one else was bothered with her. That made her a easy target

When people say Derek treated her badly, I think she had that coming from the moment she threw a glass of water over him in Bed while he was sleeping and then telling him to go away from the kitchen. Many will say Derek was a grown man but she stoked the flames with that one.

I don't think she should have been let into the house, it was far too early and intense for her. She needed to live a little cause clearly apart from walking around half naked she had nothing else to offer. I feel for the Girl but I never taught she was all that innocent.
HeyBaby
04-06-2013
She enjoyed the attention off Maxwell and Anthony but that didn't give the others the right to bully and belittle her. Lesley's behaviour was one of the most despicable things I've seen on Big Brother. I think Sam was just insecure about herself and vulnerable, as was Lesley, but they both displayed their insecurities in different ways.

I know Maxwell is unpopular on here and for most of his time on BB6 he was an utter cock, but to his credit he was the only one who stood up for Sam and confronted Lesley, telling her that she was being out of order. I couldn't stand him the rest of the time but he did do the right thing in that situation, so fair play to him.
stephen_cheever
04-06-2013
Originally Posted by HeyBaby:
“She enjoyed the attention off Maxwell and Anthony but that didn't give the others the right to bully and belittle her. Lesley's behaviour was one of the most despicable things I've seen on Big Brother. I think Sam was just insecure about herself and vulnerable, as was Lesley, but they both displayed their insecurities in different ways.

I know Maxwell is unpopular on here and for most of his time on BB6 he was an utter cock, but to his credit he was the only one who stood up for Sam and confronted Lesley, telling her that she was being out of order. I couldn't stand him the rest of the time but he did do the right thing in that situation, so fair play to him.”

As I said I agree on the Lesley bullying part, it wasn't fair. It was clear from day one she was jealous of Sam getting the attention from the men.Maxwell did stand up for her but a day or two later even he was slagging her off behind her back with Team Saskia.Thats what I loved about BB6 they were all backstabbing each other even their buddies
HeyBaby
04-06-2013
Originally Posted by stephen_cheever:
“As I said I agree on the Lesley bullying part, it wasn't fair. It was clear from day one she was jealous of Sam getting the attention from the men.Maxwell did stand up for her but a day or two later even he was slagging her off behind her back with Team Saskia.Thats what I loved about BB6 they were all backstabbing each other even their buddies ”

BB6 was a confusing one when it came to differentiating who was allied with who. Not as much as BB9 or BB13 though, my mind is still reeling at those.
Paul Wilson
04-06-2013
The 'not bothering to get to know' the rest of the housemates is a charge often levelled against Sam. Now, I haven't seen it myself, but apparently live footage showed exactly why as other housemates were hiding her stuff from day one, even after she was getting distressed about it - in fact more so after this. There was a very ugly kick the weak one from the herd thing going on from pretty much the first week from Lesley, and more sneakily Craig and Vanessa. I accept Sams people skills weren't the best, but I saw her a few times attempting to talk to Kemal and Makosi. Sure, she clung on, limpet like to Maxwell and Anthony at first, but I'm not really sure what else she could do. The fact is she was singled out by a genuinely horrible bunch of people, a heck of a lot more so than was shown on the highlights. So, to answer your question, yes very much so.
stephen_cheever
04-06-2013
Originally Posted by Paul Wilson:
“The 'not bothering to get to know' the rest of the housemates is a charge often levelled against Sam. Now, I haven't seen it myself, but apparently live footage showed exactly why as other housemates were hiding her stuff from day one, even after she was getting distressed about it - in fact more so after this. There was a very ugly kick the weak one from the herd thing going on from pretty much the first week from Lesley, and more sneakily Craig and Vanessa. I accept Sams people skills weren't the best, but I saw her a few times attempting to talk to Kemal and Makosi. Sure, she clung on, limpet like to Maxwell and Anthony at first, but I'm not really sure what else she could do. The fact is she was singled out by a genuinely horrible bunch of people, a heck of a lot more so than was shown on the highlights. So, to answer your question, yes very much so.”

Science and Roberto were nice to her when Team Saskia dumped her, she really did suffer during her last week. I'm watching the H/l programmes and it basically comes off that she just set her sights on Maxwell and Anthony and couldn't be bothered with the others. Lesley and her little gang did treat her liked crap. But with Derek she did push him to been a bit of an jerk with her.

The H/l's probably did show her in a bad light. But she should have never been let near BB, she clearly wasn't up to it yet.
meglosmurmurs
04-06-2013
I felt bad for her in regards to Lesley because Lesley was a monster.
But Sam had the habit of making these little comments with a sarcastic tone of voice that would probably have annoyed me too. I actually understood where Derek was coming from that time he flipped his lid at her.
She'd also criticize the other housemates in the diary room alot, dismissing them all as stupid and losers. If the rest of the house saw that then they'd be even more hostile with her.

I thought, after admirably defending her the week before, that Anthony and Maxwell then treated her rather harshly. But in that dating task where she's giving Anthony a lap dance was cringeworthy. She did that even though she knew he had little respect for her as it is.
mrblank
04-06-2013
in the book about BB by BB2s narinder which included contributions from sam she admitted she thought the public would really like her.a serious misjudgement on her part
stephen_cheever
04-06-2013
Originally Posted by HeyBaby:
“BB6 was a confusing one when it came to differentiating who was allied with who. Not as much as BB9 or BB13 though, my mind is still reeling at those.”

One minute Craig was in a trio with Vanessa and Lesley. Once Lesley left, he discarded Vanessa for Team Saskia.

Makosi backstabbed her "Friend" Kemal by nomming him and turning her back on him.

Sam was discarded by Maxwell and Anthony once Saskia showed a interest in them.

I don't think there was any real tight friendship in BB6.
iKris
04-06-2013
I continuously gave her the benefit of the doubt because her bum was lovely.
stephen_cheever
04-06-2013
Originally Posted by meglosmurmurs:
“I felt bad for her in regards to Lesley because Lesley was a monster.
But Sam had the habit of making these little comments with a sarcastic tone of voice that would probably have annoyed me too. I actually understood where Derek was coming from that time he flipped his lid at her.
She'd also criticize the other housemates in the diary room alot, dismissing them all as stupid and losers. If the rest of the house saw that then they'd be even more hostile with her.

I thought, after admirably defending her the week before, that Anthony and Maxwell then treated her rather harshly. But in that dating task where she's giving Anthony a lap dance was cringeworthy. She did that even though she knew he had little respect for her as it is.”

She went into the house thinking her looks were enough to win her BB, she could never hold a conversation. Anthony's Nommed her once by pulling down his trousers and speaking out of his backside cause it was far more interesting then Sam. It was cruel but sadly true, she clearly wasn't a well read or well travelled girl but someone who let her body and looks do the talking for her up to then in her young adult years.


Saskia came into their fold and nearly all the guys fancied her more then Sam (I think it was saskia's boobs that won them over ). They just dumped her right there and then.In the diary room, she let rip at the ones who didn't even bully her. I always stood by Derek had every right to treat her like crap after the way she treated him.
Vodka_Drinka
04-06-2013
She was treated horribly, but she was also what my mum would call "hard work". She had terrible social skills, and I remember wondering at the time if she was on the autistic spectrum because she seemed to have real trouble expressing herself and communicating which was more that just general shyness IMO.

She was pretty, but knew it and seemed to think that her looks alone would carry her. Talking to her was like getting blood from a stone and the boys quickly got bored of her, preferring Saskia who could hold a conversation and "banter" with them.

Sam also behaved oddly at times. Like masturbating in the box during the box task and making sure that everyone knew what she was doing. I can't think why anyone would do something like that? It made me cringe for her. She seemed almost obsessed by sex and being seen as attractive to men. Remember her posing by the pool in her bikini?
mrblank
04-06-2013
"she was pretty and she knew it" true but she wasnt as pretty as she thought she was plus throwing herself at antony who clearly wasnt intrested did her no favours.after that her time in the house was always going to be limited
CLL Dodge
04-06-2013
Certain housemates wanted to destroy her.

I think that makes her a victim.
stephen_cheever
04-06-2013
Originally Posted by Vodka_Drinka:
“She was treated horribly, but she was also what my mum would call "hard work". She had terrible social skills, and I remember wondering at the time if she was on the autistic spectrum because she seemed to have real trouble expressing herself and communicating which was more that just general shyness IMO.

She was pretty, but knew it and seemed to think that her looks alone would carry her. Talking to her was like getting blood from a stone and the boys quickly got bored of her, preferring Saskia who could hold a conversation and "banter" with them.

Sam also behaved oddly at times. Like masturbating in the box during the box task and making sure that everyone knew what she was doing. I can't think why anyone would do something like that? It made me cringe for her. She seemed almost obsessed by sex and being seen as attractive to men. Remember her posing by the pool in her bikini?”

Attention seeker, she was young and slightly dumb. It was odd she did that in the Box task but it did get her a few column inches. She walked around in just a bra and jean shorts all the time and the guys loved it until they got used to it and saw that she wasn't going to put out for them and found out she couldn't hold a conversation.

I think she probably never really lived her life as much as she tried to portray in the house. Her playing the sex kitten, I taught was her playing a role. She probably never had many friends or boyfriends. I think BB6 was too early for her maybe a BB 9 or 10 would have suited her more.
zooooooooooooo
04-06-2013
Originally Posted by iKris:
“I continuously gave her the benefit of the doubt because her bum was lovely.”

It certainly was.
Pointy
05-06-2013
I liked Sam, but she clearly wasn't no innocent. She played up her sexuality far too much and was seemingly readying herself for a glamour or porn career. It was rather sad to see the depths she plumbed after BB6.
Tall Paul
05-06-2013
The closest similar hm to sam heuston was tashie Jackson and that is what happens as it makes the rest of the house jealous. Think both girls were bullied as kids and had to look at life straight in the eye and have a giggle. :P

Does anyone know sam heustons twitter just out of interest?
stephen_cheever
05-06-2013
Originally Posted by Pointy:
“I liked Sam, but she clearly wasn't no innocent. She played up her sexuality far too much and was seemingly readying herself for a glamour or porn career. It was rather sad to see the depths she plumbed after BB6.”

I taught she felt her looks were enough to get her by in BB.
She shouldn't have ever been picked for BB6 maybe BB8 or 9after she lived her life a little she could have done better and dealt with other housemates.
starry
05-06-2013
I hate it when people make excuses for people who gets aggressive and nasty. She probably wasn't perfect but who is? Does the OP think he is perfect? Big Brother is obviously about tolerance of other people, why else would you stick people in a house who are totally different and keep them together so they can't get away from each other? People like Leslie, Derek, Maxwell and Anthony were completely shown up. And most in the house definitely wanted Roberto evicted and not Sam anyway when she did go, and the reaction wasn't exactly jubilation when she went either. After a difficult first week (not usual in Big Brother) she did gradually get along with more in the house, she just wasn't cut throat like some of them in playing the game.
stephen_cheever
05-06-2013
Originally Posted by starry:
“I hate it when people make excuses for people who gets aggressive and nasty. She probably wasn't perfect but who is? Does the OP think he is perfect? Big Brother is obviously about tolerance of other people, why else would you stick people in a house who are totally different and keep them together so they can't get away from each other? People like Leslie, Derek, Maxwell and Anthony were completely shown up. And most in the house definitely wanted Roberto evicted and not Sam anyway when she did go, and the reaction wasn't exactly jubilation when she went either. After a difficult first week (not usual in Big Brother) she did gradually get along with more in the house, she just wasn't cut throat like some of them in playing the game.”

You must have been watching a different show Starry.
lightdragon
05-06-2013
I'm going to admit to having double standards about Sam. I remb thinking "For cripes sake put some bleeding clothes on!" a lot during the first couple of weeks, and thought she got lucky with the noms/ evictions, esp the week Vanessa got everyone put up. Brightside: Sam did give us one of the most cringeworthy BB moments ever, lap dancing a terrified Anfonee.

However the way Lesley treated her was bullying, and I felt for Sam too. IMO both were very alike, both got on better with guys than girls, both were "ladettes" and felt there was nothing wrong in making the first move. Just one was a chubby jealous biatch, and one was a bit dumb and had no social skills.
Veri
06-06-2013
Originally Posted by stephen_cheever:
“...
I always stood by Derek had every right to treat her like crap after the way she treated him.”

Do two wrongs make a right, in your view? (Actually, there was more than one wrong on Derek's side, but Sam is one of the most forgiving HMs there's been and in an interview with Dermot said that Derek was one of the ones who kept her going in there, because they'd have conversations.)
Veri
06-06-2013
I think that a lot of what people say about Sam in this thread is incorrect or fits only a partial picture. (The highlights were very misleading about Sam and about how other HMs treated her, btw.)

I won't try to cover everything, but I'll try to touch on most points.

* She did not just stick herself to Maxwell and Anthony from Day 1. She did spend a lot of time with them (and Saskia) before Lesley was evicted, but much of that is because Lesley and Co, in their effort to "make her life hell", were so unpleasant to her. But even before Lesley left, Sam was spending time with Makosi and Kemal. She and Science got along pretty well throughout her time in BB. Their 'speed date' was one of the most interesting ones, imo, and he kept a flower from that task and gave it to her on her eviction night.

* She did make an a effort to get to know the other housemates. For example, Vanessa. Vanessa said Sam was the warmest and most welcoming on opening night. Sam often tried to be helpful to Vanessa after Vanessa had sprained her ankle. And though Vanessa turned against Sam during BB, Vanessa said after BB that she had misjudged Sam. (Sam was even nice to Lesley at times near the start.)

Vanessa's rule break that BB punished by putting them all up was because she had seemed friendly with Sam and Lesley took exception. Vanessa reassured Lesley that she (V) didn't like Sam and was going to nominate her that week. (Oops!)

* She did not walk around in just a bra and jean shorts all the time. I'm not sure she ever dressed like that. She did often wear a bikini, but it was summer, sunny, and she was in and out of the pool a lot (more than any other HM in bb6). Also, some HMs were talking and hiding some of her things almost from the start, which cut down on her choices.

* I don't know what's behind the idea that "Saskia discarded her from Team Saskia" or that "Sam was discarded by Maxwell and Anthony once Saskia showed a interest in them". Sam continued to spend time with that group after Saskia became part of it. What seemed to cause them to discard her was that they heard her booed and themselves cheered the night Lesley was evicted. (The cheers went to their heads which ultimately led to Max and Saskia's downfall.)

However, I largely agree that "Science and Roberto were nice to her when Team Saskia dumped her, she really did suffer during her last week," though it was Science more than Roberto and wasn't only those two. (Note, BTW, the timing: "her last week" ie the time after Lesley's eviction and so after its cheers and boos.)

* I don't think it's true that she "(criticized) the other housemates in the diary room alot, dismissing them all as stupid and losers." There was one DR session that kinda fits that description, but in any case, what she said about them was as nothing compared to what they said about her. And that she sometimes snapped back (such as little comments with a sarcastic tone) is understandable.

* There's a tendency to talk about the bullying as if it was only Lesley doing things. Lesley was in some ways the worst, and she was warned by BB after making threats about what might happen outside the house. But Sam had a group being unpleasant to her, and except for Maxwell (once, and imitated briefly by Ant), no one stood up to them.

* I don't think she was as lacking in social skills or ability to express herself, or to hold a conversation, as some think. I'm not saying she had the greatest social skills ever, but a lot of her difficulty in bb6 was because of the way Lesley and Co had treated her. She was more shy / introverted than most HMs, but she could hold a conversation, and she often expressed herself quite well in the DR. I don't think she was dumb, and I don't think it's really a point against her that she didn't "banter" in the way Max, Saskia and Ant did.

BB6 was probably the worst series for her.

* Re "playing the sex kitten", "played up her sexuality", and so on, that impression was largely based on an earlier DR session and a few incidents in tasks (such as the lap dance with Ant and kissing Makosi). It wasn't how she was most of the time. If she ever posed by the pool in her bikini, it wasn't often. She behaved around the pool like people do around a pool. She'd typically be in the water or lying on the lawn in the sun. (I don't know why people think they know what she did in the box. It was, after all, hidden by the box.)

It's interesting that all a lot of people seem to remember from the speed dates was her lap dance for Anthony. I think he speed dates were among the most interesting and varied. That was not evident in the highlights. Indeed, to catch the one with Science (which I thought was the most interesting) on tv, you had to be watching live and quickly switch between C4 and E4 because an ad break came along in the middle of it.
mrblank
06-06-2013
well i watched the speed dating task on live feed and her all over antony was a total cringe fest
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