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tv detector vans
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flagpole
14-06-2013
Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“Yes they could - but even back when they existed there were only ever a very small number of real ones, most were just dummy vans which scared people in to buying a licence.

Back in the mid 70's I was taken inside one, and shown how it all worked - basically a lot of expensive professional radio and electronics gear, and two VERY highly skilled and qualified engineers to use it.

They were able to pick out individual TV's in the workshop, and tell me which channels they were on - and they were completely right on every one.

But as far as I'm aware there haven't been any for a number of decades now - far too expensive, and not cost effective. Much cheaper to send guys round knocking on doors.”

I think the cost effectiveness changed with the penetration of tv's.

at some point when only a percentage of the population had a tv it made sense to get a list of people without a licence and use a detector van to work out if they had a tv.

as tv ownership reached near 100% any home without a tv licence had a high chance of having a tv and there were other ways of dealing with it.
Nigel Goodwin
14-06-2013
Originally Posted by flagpole:
“I think the cost effectiveness changed with the penetration of tv's.”

I don't think it was EVER cost effective, which is why there were only a very small number of them, plus many more dummy vans.

TV penetration in the UK was pretty high a VERY long time ago, certainly well within many years of detector van activity.
tim59
14-06-2013
Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“I don't think it was EVER cost effective, which is why there were only a very small number of them, plus many more dummy vans.

TV penetration in the UK was pretty high a VERY long time ago, certainly well within many years of detector van activity.”

Yes I agree tv penetration was high just that most people could only afford to rent a tv not buy one, you only have to look back and think how many rental companys there was
Chris Frost
14-06-2013
What does it matter if it was bought or rented? A TV in the house is still a TV in the house.
jjne
15-06-2013
Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“Back in the mid 70's I was taken inside one, and shown how it all worked - basically a lot of expensive professional radio and electronics gear, and two VERY highly skilled and qualified engineers to use it.”

Except that they weren't 'engineers' at all -- they were technicians.

The engineer would be the person who designed the kit in the first place.
Nigel Goodwin
15-06-2013
Originally Posted by jjne:
“Except that they weren't 'engineers' at all -- they were technicians.

The engineer would be the person who designed the kit in the first place.”

You seem to have a very limited idea of what an 'engineer' is? - so out of two people with identical electronics degrees and qualifications you would only consider one of them an 'engineer' because only he is doing design work?.

Code:
Definition of engineer
noun

    1a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
    a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:an aeronautical engineer

    2a person who controls an engine, especially on an aircraft or ship.
    North American a train driver. 

    3a skilful contriver or originator of something:the prime engineer of the approach
Tom2023
15-06-2013
Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“The 'radiation' isn't from the CRT, it's from the LOPT stage and scan coils, which is quite considerable.”

The scan coils are part of the CRT.
Nigel Goodwin
15-06-2013
Originally Posted by Tom2023:
“The scan coils are part of the CRT.”

No the scan coils are clamped around it - and back in the days of TV detector vans were a completely separate item.

It was only with the introduction of 'modern' PIL colour tubes that scan coils were bonded to the tube at all (as well as clamped) - but Sony Trinitron tubes were never bonded, and Trinitron tubes still came without scan coils.
in_focus
15-06-2013
Originally Posted by Tom2023:
“The scan coils are part of the CRT.”

Good grief.
Tom2023
16-06-2013
If the scan coils aren't part of the CRT presumably there's no need for them to be wrapped around the neck of the CRT, they could even be in a separate box
Winston_1
16-06-2013
Originally Posted by Tom2023:
“If the scan coils aren't part of the CRT presumably there's no need for them to be wrapped around the neck of the CRT, they could even be in a separate box ”

Indeed. I'm sure they would have been delivered to the TV manufacturers in a separate box as well.

To say they are part of the tube is like saying the tube is part of the cabinet as they are bolted together.
Tom2023
16-06-2013
Next you'll be telling us the tyre on your car isn't part of the wheel.
Orbitalzone
16-06-2013
Kinda splitting hairs here and you won't get one over on Nigel, it's never happened on DS

Joddle
16-06-2013
I have removed more TV CRTs than most people have had hot dinners.

The CRT is a component of the TV - a big valve.
The scancoil pack is another component of the TV.
The scan coils are placed around the neck of the CRT.

The CRT won't produce an image on a tv unless it is combined with a set of scan coils.

The scan coils are not "part" of the CRT itself but are part of the CRT assembly which also includes the EHT generator and rectifier.

Its a bit like the crank and chain on a bicycle - they are mounted together but they are separate things but you can't say the crank is part of the chain or the chain is part of the crank. Each is a component.


Re "Next you'll be telling us the tyre on your car isn't part of the wheel. " Well of course this is correct but not a valid comparison as a "wheel" can be assembly of parts. What would be a better comparison is that the rim is not part of the tyre and the type is not part of the rim - both are part of the wheel!
Tom2023
16-06-2013
Originally Posted by Joddle:
“
The scan coils are not "part" of the CRT itself but are part of the CRT assembly which also includes the EHT generator and rectifier.”

The Scan coils are an integral part of the CRT assembly.

The EHT generator and the rectifier don't have to be part of the CRT assembly. They could be positioned any where in the TV set or even outside of it.
Joddle
16-06-2013
Originally Posted by Tom2023:
“The Scan coils are an integral part of the CRT assembly. .”

Agreed - but not part of the CRT which is a glass bottle

Originally Posted by Tom2023:
“ The EHT generator and the rectifier don't have to be part of the CRT assembly. They could be positioned any where in the TV set or even outside of it.”

Also agreed - I was simply using that as an illustration of an "assembly" being a set of components - the TV iteself is an assembly of components. Defining the actual perameters of a particlar set of components is not a precision science but a CRT is a CRT - and a CRT assembly implies the CRT plus other things as well which are grouped together.

Unless somone actually defines "CRT assembly" we don't know for sure exactly which compenents to include.
Tom2023
16-06-2013
Originally Posted by Joddle:
“Agreed - but not part of the CRT which is a glass bottle”

The CRT is a very special type electronic valve. Unlike a simple pentode or triode It can not have it's beam control on the inside so it has them on the outside.

The scan coils are part of the CRT.
Joddle
16-06-2013
Originally Posted by Tom2023:
“The CRT is a very special type electronic valve. Unlike a simple pentode or triode It can not have it's beam control on the inside so it has them on the outside.

The scan coils are part of the CRT.”

This argument is so stupid - A CRT is a CRT and a scan coil is a device which fits onto it to contol the beam because it has no internal control.

You can't define a CRT and its coils by a component part number, only an assemply part, but you can define a CRT by its indiviual part number and several CRT assemblies will use the same CRT part number but different coil packs depending on the make model etc of the TV.

Definition - Cathode-ray tube Noun
(Physics / General Physics) a valve in which a beam of high-energy electrons is focused onto a fluorescent screen to give a visible spot of light. The device, with appropriate deflection equipment, is used in television receivers, visual display units, oscilloscopes, etc. Abbreviation CRT

Note phrase "with appropriate deflection equipment" - ie
the coils are extra to the definition.

I am not getting into this any more - its plain daft.
Orbitalzone
16-06-2013
Originally Posted by Joddle:
“I have removed more TV CRTs than most people have had hot dinners.”


Wow you must be a record holder, I reckon I've had approximately 15,000 hot dinners up until last night's dinner
Orbitalzone
16-06-2013
This whole CRT arguement is pointless you might as well just all pull your trousers down and see who's biggest.... it's completely off tangent to the original post, just like my wang comparison option.
Joddle
16-06-2013
Originally Posted by Orbitalzone:
“Wow you must be a record holder, I reckon I've had approximately 15,000 hot dinners up until last night's dinner”

Like it !!!!
Orbitalzone
16-06-2013
Originally Posted by Joddle:
“Like it !!!!”




.....
in_focus
16-06-2013
Originally Posted by Tom2023:
“The CRT is a very special type electronic valve. Unlike a simple pentode or triode It can not have it's beam control on the inside so it has them on the outside.

The scan coils are part of the CRT.”

What about electrostatic deflection such as oscilloscope CRT's?

And in the very early days some electrostatic CRT's were used for television.
Tom2023
16-06-2013
I was wondering when someone was going to throw electrostatic CRTs into the argument


Once we've finished with CRTs shall we move on to the misuse of apostrophes in pluralising capitalized acronyms such as CRT?
in_focus
16-06-2013
Touche
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