I have just bought an HDR-FOX T2 so I am still learning it, but it is immediately apparent that I cannot see the icon saying that I have reserved a programme in the Guide - it is hidden off screen to the right.

For example, set the guide so that is displays 20:00 to 22:00. Choose a programme which lasts from 21:00 to 22:00 and set a recording reservation. The icon saying that the programme has been reserved cannot be see on the screen - it is hidden off screen to the right.

Is this normal? Or have I got my TV set up so that it has chopped off the last half an inch or so of picture?

Depends on what you mean. If the displayed programme at the right of the epg happens to be longer than is currently visible then you won't see the recording flag until you scroll the display to the right. Most TV's have overscan switched on by default to avoid visible noise at the picture edges. If these aren't a problem you can try switching off the overscan settings on the TV (night be called full pixel).

Do large round objects look circular or are they distorted to look oval ?

Graham, I'm sure your experience is greater than mine, and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this because I recently had one on the other forum.
On my HDR-FOX T2 if a programme name is too long it is truncated and the icon is shown at the far right of the epg slot.
I was told that this is not the case and even a photo of the entry would not convince others but that is the case. If it can't be seen it is a set-up problem.
David.

Do you know I have never noticed that You are correct just found a programme at the right hand side of the screen truncated to just a recording icon. You can't see the name at all until you scroll right. Must be a overscan or aspect ratio setting problem with the OP's TV and/or a incorrect aspect ratio in TV setup on the HDR FOX T2.

Graham.

Thanks. The program I have reserved is 21:00 to 22:00, so the title should not extend beyond the screen edge. When I reserve it, I cannot see the reserve icon unless I scroll the Guide to 20:30 - 22:30 when it appears.

To be specific, do the following
1 Set the Guide to 20:00 to 22:00 tonight
2 BBC1 displays Watchdog 20:00 to 21:00 (the length of the title is 19.5cm) and The Apprentice 21:00 to 22:00 (the length of the title is 20.8cm)
3 Set a recording reservation for Watchdog - I see the icon to the right of the title. The icon is positioned below the "21" of 21:00
4 Set a recording reservation for The Apprentice. The reservation is made but I cannot see an icon in the programme title. Nothing appears under the "22" of 22:00 which is where I would expect it.
5 Scroll the Guide forward by 30 minutes to 20:30 to 22:30. I can now see the Recording reserved icon. Scroll the Guide back by 30 minutes to 20:00m to 22:00 and the icon disappears behind the screen edge.

The effect is that I cannot see the Recording Reserved icon for any programme which ends at the time where the right hand edge of the guide stops.

My 9200T showed the icon at step 4 above.

Round objects are still round - I am pretty sure it isn't an aspect ratio problem.

Graham, aciddad

I have posted some images on flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52933811@N04/9026905720/ shows where I have set a reservation for The Apprentice, but I cannot see the icon. You can see it is set because the other Set Recording icon at top right is set.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52933811@N04/9026912108/ shows how the icon appears when I scroll the guide.

Why cannot I see the icon in the first picture???

I have the TV set to WIDE and the FOX to 16:9 Auto. I never had this problem with the 9200T - I could see the icon for The Apprentice in both the above pictures.

The really annoying thing is that I cannot see if I have reserved any programme which ends at the time where the Guide meets the right hand screen edge!

If you set a series recording it displays two overlapping icons side by side, a magenta S and a red clock and they don't completely disappear in the situations that have been described, you can still see the left hand half of the magenta S icon.

I don't know. Here is what my guide shows http://www.tynecomp.co.uk/Resources/HumaxGuide.jpg with the reservation clearly visible. I suggest you experiment with display settings on the Humax and TV

That's interesting. I wonder if you see more with hdmi than scart. I'm using scart at the moment (and if I switch the TV to 4:3 there's nothing more to the right, so it's not caused by overscan).

[QUOTE I suggest you experiment with display settings on the Humax and TV[/quote]

Martin

Thanks. I have a rather old Sony Trinitron (CRT) and I am using its RGB SCART input. I have set the HDR to use RGB on its video output so I expected SCART to talk properly to SCART.

The HDR chooses 576i and does not give me any other options to try.

The TV has a "Centre RBG picture" control. When I adjust this, I can move the picture left and reveal about half of the "Record icon" but I lose the start of Wed at top left!

I definitely seem to be losing a vertical strip on each side of the screen when I compare my screen with your screen. Note how you have a large gap to the right of 2013 but my 2013 is almost touching the edge. Your screen has a similar sized gap to the left of the mini-screen at top left - my mini-screen is very close to the screen edge.

So my conclusion is that the HDR is sending both edges to the TV, but the TV is chopping it off.

I thought the 9200T worked OK but on testing, I see it too loses a narrow vertical strip down both edges, so it is definitely the TV causing the problem. It wasn't noticeable on the 9200T because the Guide stops well clear of the right hand screen edge so I didn't realise I was losing a bit of picture.

It makes the HDR VERY inconvenient to use - I can't see if I have a reservation set without scrolling to the right!

maldonian

Thanks.

See my reply to Martin above, but to answer your questions:

I don't have an HDMI input on my (old) TV.

When I set the TV to 4:3 I still cannot see the record icon. Cycling the TV 4:3 > 14:9 > Zoom > Wide > Auto never shows the icon.

I then set the HDR to 4:3, and the TV to 4:3 and I still cannot see the icon.

I am running on 1.02.29 dated 5 July 2012.

I was responding to the post (#8) immediately above mine, but never mind, perhaps I should have included a quote. I suspect we are both seeing the same effect because we are both using a scart connection. What do you see if you set a series recording?

I don't have a scart connection from my HDR FOX T2 to my TV. It's routed via a AV amp 10m away over hdmi.

It could be a problem from the box having to downscale the HD epg to output at 576i.

I do have a composite output from my AV amp sent to a 16:9 kitchen TV via a PAL rf modulator. The epg looks fine on the Kitchen TV.

As an experiment try outputting composite from the HDR FOX T2 scart. (Assuming you are using the higher quality RGB option)

Hi Graham

I have done a few tests and I was wrong, I am seeing the effect of overscan in the TV.

The hidden icon effect is exactly the same using rgb scart, composite scart and hdmi, and it's also the same if I set the tv to pillarboxed 4:3 (i.e. squashed horizontally with black strips on both sides). I naively assumed this would reveal the left and right edges of the picture if the panel was being overscanned. This is on my main tv, a 32" Sharp.

But then I tried a different tv using hdmi and the effect on the timer icons is similar but not exactly the same, I can just see the left hand edge of the red clock timer icon and all of the magenta S series icon. This alone convinced me that I was seeing the effect of overscan. This tv has horizontal and vertical hdmi position adjustment. Adjusting the horizontal position moves the picture left or right, revealing more of one or other side of the picture. Moving it left reveals the whole of the red clock icon on the right. So the panel is definitely being overscanned.

Neither tv has any provision for turning off overscan in their normal menus and I don't know how to get into any hidden or service menus.

Edit
I've only just noticed that John said more or less the same thing halfway through post 10. Note to self: read posts more carefully.

Which make and model of TV is it ?

This may help, it's a 1920 x 1080 jpeg of the HD testcard. You should be able to see all 4 points of the white arrows at the centre of each edge.

It should be viewable from the usb port of your HDR FOX T2. If your TV has a usb port then it may be possible to view using that as well

https://www.adrive.com/public/CTSYJT...HDTestCard.jpg

I've sussed it I think Graham. I've been revisiting settings I haven't looked at for ages. My tv is a Sharp Aquos 32" by the way. The description is a bit long but it might help someone else.

Using hdmi set to 576i or 576p you get the same selection of picture sizes as you do using scart. The edge of the picture is always cropped.

Using hdmi set to 720p you can select between Full or Dot by Dot. Full is overscanned, it fills the screen and the picture is cropped. Dot by Dot underscans top and bottom and left and right and the picture is not cropped. The picture is very noticeably smaller than the panel (it's a 1366 x 768 panel). There's a black strip about 3cm wide on the left and right on some channels (e.g. BBC1) and just over 2cm on other channels (e.g. ITV), and it's just over 1cm wide at the top and bottom.

Using hdmi set to 1080i or 1080p you can select between Full or Underscan. Full is overscanned, it fills the screen and the picture is cropped. Underscan just fills the panel top and bottom and slightly underscans left and right on some channels (e.g. BBC1), but fills the panel left and right on other channels (e.g. ITV). The picture is not cropped.

This is using SD channels by the way, which is all I normally watch or record. At our normal viewing distance you can't see the difference between SD and HD with a 32" screen. I haven't tried your test card yet, hopefully it will confirm the above, more or less.

So if I don't want my tv to overscan (so I can always see the Fox T2 timer icon) I need to use hdmi and upscale in the Fox T2, preferably to 1080i or p. But I've got used to not being able to see the timer icon in some situations and I'm not really bothered by it.

Incidentally, the timer icon on the Foxsat isn't as close to the right hand edge of the picture as it is on the Fox T2, and it's always visible on my tv.

Aha

See the first paragraph in considerations here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution

Incidentally the smaller kitchen TV fed by a rf modulator has a 768 line panel as far as I can remember. (Not sure about the horizontal count).

The box is scaling down the 1920 x 1080 to 720 x 576 for output using CVBS. The TV is scaling back to 768 lines and the icons are visible from both the Foxsat-HDR and the HDR-FOX T2 (and a HDR-1000s). So it seems to be your TV does something a bit odd. For location reasons the Foxsat-hdr has it's own modulator, the other kit uses one fed from a multizone AV amp so the modulator CVBS source is switched by the amplifier.

If my maths is correct a HD-Ready display to use square pixels (as 1920 x 1080) would have 1360 x 765 pixels for a perfect 16:9 display.

maldonian
I think you are correct - I agree it is an overscan problem.

My old TV does not have hdmi, and the Fox chooses 576i without giving me any option to choose 576p, 720p, 1080p or 1080s so I am stuck.

I think my only option is to try using the Service Menu on the TV to adjust the TV picture width a little bit, and then shift the picture left a bit. This should reveal part or all of the icon without messing up the aspect ratio of the picture too much.

I called Humax support - they said it was a TV problem.

It's overscanning, I think that's all it's doing, i.e. the TV is scaling, say, 95% of the picture height to 768 lines and losing the rest. The Fox T2 sometimes positions the timer icon too close to the edge of the picture for the amount of overscan in both my TVs. Your TV must have a lot less overscan, there isn't a standard amount. I don't have a problem with captions or subtitles or tops of heads being cut off because broadcasters avoid the edges of the picture, they use a 'safe' area that won't be cut off by overscan in the display. CRT TVs were overscanned to make sure the edges of the picture were always hidden. I think the reason it's still done in flat panel TVs is to mask any timing variations on analogue inputs.

A few extra comments on what I observed in my previous post:

In the 720p case the Fox T2 is obviously scaling 576 to 720 vertically and the TV isn't doing any scaling when 'Dot by Dot' is selected (Sharp's term for 1:1 mapping) so it only uses 720 of its 768 pixels. The horizontal variation must be down to how the Fox T2 scales 720 (BBC) and 704 (ITV).

In the 1080i and p cases the Fox T2 is scaling 576 to 1080 vertically and the TV downscales the 1080 to fit the panel when 'Underscan' is selected. It's not what I would call underscan, but there you go, I think it is commonly used to mean no overscan.

You only need to be able to see part of it consistently (i.e. allowing for any drift in the TV). If it's a series recording you will also be able to see the other icon.