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Old 13-06-2013, 23:14
scumcat
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I hope 11 has a better end than 10 I've just rewatch the end of time and thought that the last half an hour of the end of time part two dipicts David Tennant's doctor (as written by RTD who i like) to be a bit of cry baby and I hope eleven is given a more dignified send off.
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Old 13-06-2013, 23:20
Dr. Linus
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His emotional and human-ish ending was true to Ten's character. I thought it was a fitting way for his unique take on the Doctor to end.

And I'm confident that Eleven's will indeed be different, as he's a massively different character that has happily faced death more than once before.
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Old 13-06-2013, 23:42
VideoTapir
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I want 11 to go with a grin and a 'Geronimo!'
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Old 13-06-2013, 23:56
scumcat
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I want 11 to go with a grin and a 'Geronimo!'
Absolutely
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Old 14-06-2013, 00:30
Khof
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Ten's departure was perfect within the context of the story arc. He'd been travelling alone for a while since "Journey's End", and this piled on top of both the loss of his companions and the fact that he was still trying to let go of the Time War to give us what we saw in "The Waters of Mars". Ten went completely nuts there, believing that "the laws of time are mine, and they will obey me". This then led into "The End of Time" where he was dreading his death and kept clinging onto the past and refusing to move on (as shown by how he referred to visiting his past companions as "my reward" as if he were entitled to it). The point of the story arc was that this wasn't "the Doctor" anymore and that he needed to go (regenerate) before it was too late, and his selfish final words "I don't want to go" further cemented this. He was a broken man, so it made for more of a tragedy rather than a sort of "wimpy RTD-fest".

So since Eleven has a completely different story arc with completely different character development, he will no doubt go out completely differently.
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Old 14-06-2013, 00:37
Dr. Linus
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Ten's departure was perfect within the context of the story arc. He'd been travelling alone for a while since "Journey's End", and this piled on top of both the loss of his companions and the fact that he was still trying to let go of the Time War to give us what we saw in "The Waters of Mars". Ten went completely nuts there, believing that "the laws of time are mine, and they will obey me". This then led into "The End of Time" where he was dreading his death and kept clinging onto the past and refusing to move on (as shown by how he referred to visiting his past companions as "my reward" as if he were entitled to it). The point of the story arc was that this wasn't "the Doctor" anymore and that he needed to go (regenerate) before it was too late, and his selfish final words "I don't want to go" further cemented this.

So since Eleven has a completely different story arc with completely different character development, he will no doubt go out completely differently.
Yep, it was definitely a natural development of his character. He started self-destructing pretty much from day one really. Right back in The Christmas Invasion he shows he's got problems with his role in events during the blow-up-the-Sycorax thing, in The Satan Pit he questions his beliefs... and then he loses Rose and starts on a very steady downward spiral where he gradually starts questioning what on Earth he's even doing with his life. Cue complete breakdown in The Waters of Mars, grief and depression in The End of Time, and he finally hits rock bottom with his last line as he realises he's made such a mess of his short life. Cue a much-needed regeneration.

I think it was a very bold and interesting character arc.
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Old 14-06-2013, 00:50
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Yep, it was definitely a natural development of his character. He started self-destructing pretty much from day one really. Right back in The Christmas Invasion he shows he's got problems with his role in events during the blow-up-the-Sycorax thing, in The Satan Pit he questions his beliefs... and then he loses Rose and starts on a very steady downward spiral where he gradually starts questioning what on Earth he's even doing with his life. Cue complete breakdown in The Waters of Mars, grief and depression in The End of Time, and he finally hits rock bottom with his last line as he realises he's made such a mess of his short life. Cue a much-needed regeneration.

I think it was a very bold and interesting character arc.
I'd agree with this - Ten's character arc was bold, and interesting, and mature. And I hope that Eleven's exit will be just as great.
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Old 14-06-2013, 00:55
saladfingers81
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I hated his final line and still do but apart from that I thought his exit was a beautiful thing. It was a change from the usual regenerations and rightly so. As usual RTD showed his real genius and the ability to connect the audience by giving what is on the face of it an outlandish concept and making it resonate with viewers on a human level. Who wouldn't want to be able to do what Ten did at the very end? It was his gift. Well earned. To go and make good and set things right for all those who meant the most to him. When for so many life is snatched away with things left unsaid and situations never resolved to watch Ten have a chance to go on his farewell tour gets me every single time. There is a quiet dignity to it and while very sad it is in fact the best end a Doctor could hope for. A slow death with the chance to say goodbye. Wonderful stuff.

Of course you could look at it another way and say such a prolonged death was almost cruel.

Brilliant either way. The End of Time got quite a few things wrong and I find the actual plot quite flimsy but damn did RTD nail it with the farewell. It wasn't just the Doctor saying goodbye either-it was all of us watching and we got the send off we needed. A proper full stop.

But ruined by the last line of course.
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Old 14-06-2013, 01:30
Khof
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The last line was probably meant to show that, despite all the good he was trying to do on his farewell tour, he was still very messed up in the head. "I don't want to go" translates to "I need to go", regardless of whether or not he was physically dying.

And yes, I also agree that the character arc was bold, interesting, and mature. Really justified having this incarnation of the Doctor a bit "more human" than most others in my opinion. I'm really glad I figured out what was happening in this arc, even if it took me a while.
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Old 14-06-2013, 02:34
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I agree with what others are saying about the character arc and Ten's character overall, though I would add that Ten seems to be more attached to his incarnation than other versions of the Doctor we've seen. Note that he's the only one who has ever compared regeneration to actually dying, and then with the "I don't want to go" line. This could be partly a result of the depression and degradation/downfall we see of Ten's character before he regenerates, but from what we saw in the End of Time, I'd say he was actually ready to die - to refuse to regenerate like the Master did.

He has been told his song is ending, he has lost everything i.e. his companions and is now alone, combine this with the continuing guilt and remorse of the Time War and what he did, and the constant reminder of being the last of his kind... he even says it himself: "Sometimes, I think a Time Lord lives too long." He also repeats "live(d) too long" before saving Wilf. Basically what I see is that he has lost all hope and is ready to just die, no regeneration.

Furthermore, look how long it took before he regenerated. He visited all the Nine/Ten companions, plus made a stop off to buy a lottery ticket, and it is furthermore explained in the Sarah Jane Adventures that he looked back on all his companions ever (whether this is true is debatable I guess, but it would back up this interpretation - he's dying for good this time so he looks back on everyone he's ever travelled with to say his final goodbyes. Even if it isn't true, the point still stands). At the very end, he collapses into the snow, and really looks like he will die. It's only when Ood Sigma appears to give him that one final push - "the story never ends" - that he gives in to the regeneration, or allows it to happen, even if he doesn't want to leave this incarnation behind.

That's my interpretation anyway.
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Old 14-06-2013, 08:42
greymarl
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I quite liked it, although it was all a little indulgent - I can forgive him that. You did get the impression it was more David Tennant's goodbye than the Doctor's though, if you see what I mean, especially the 'I don't want to go'.

I'd like 11s exit to be a bit more upbeat personally, although I can very easily live without anymore 'Geronimo's. Only time will tell!
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Old 14-06-2013, 09:31
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I can't believe any fan of David Tenant's Doctor wouldn't like the 'I don't want to go' line, thought it was brilliant and one of the most emotional moments in the show's history.
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Old 14-06-2013, 11:01
TheSilentFez
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I didn't really mind Tennant's end. It sort of suited his character.
The bit I did hate and thought was very out of character was the scene where the Doctor ranted and smashed stuff saying "It's not fair!". That scene made me feel very uncomfortable the first time I watched it and it still does.
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Old 14-06-2013, 11:07
Granny McSmith
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Some brilliant interpretations on here - I've enjoyed reading them.

Personally, I loved 10's ending, including the "I don't want to go" line. (I didn't want him to go, either). But then I like all the tears and angst. I want 11's end to have loads of tears and heart-rending goodbyes. (Except I don't want him to go. Isn't life hard? )
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Old 14-06-2013, 11:28
johnnysaucepn
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The bit I did hate and thought was very out of character was the scene where the Doctor ranted and smashed stuff saying "It's not fair!". That scene made me feel very uncomfortable the first time I watched it and it still does.
I think it's great that it makes me feel uncomfortable. We expect the Doctor to be the one always doing the necessary, willing to sacrifice himself at a moment's notice. How must that feel?

He managed to save the Earth, probably all of reality, with nothing but a few scratches. And now he is expected to sacrifice himself to save a single human, one that is actually begging him not to do it. We're never in any doubt that he's going to do it, because that's what he does - but how frustrating must that be?

He thought he had cheated fate (although I generally hate that 'prophecy' stuff), but fate cheated him right back. Who wouldn't be angry?

I would have loved to see more of that stuff through Ten's run (instead of the stern face we usually got), but we got it in Eleven instead.
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:23
scumcat
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I didn't really mind Tennant's end. It sort of suited his character.
The bit I did hate and thought was very out of character was the scene where the Doctor ranted and smashed stuff saying "It's not fair!". That scene made me feel very uncomfortable the first time I watched it and it still does.
Yep I agree on my second viewing, I haven't seen it since it was first on. I thought 10 was never this, I understand its all about impending death but it all seemed a bit OTT to me. He never got so emotional about losing rose and Donna it was just kinda glossed over and then he goes to bits, I just don't buy it
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:27
KezM
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To me it is nothing as complicated as people are trying to make out and certainly not in anyway wimpy.

Ten states regeneration is like death, he also states in Journey's End why would he want to change. 9 states he doesn't know what he'll end up like "I could have two heads or no head etc etc." He is changing into someone or even something completely different and apparently has no control over it. And people seriously think that that isn't in the slightest bit scary? Meh. I'd question them to wake up tomorrow morning with a completely different personality and looks and see how much they wanted to smile the prospect. "I don't want to go" was just an acknowledgement of the sadness the audience would feel about the HUGELY popular 10th Doctor (as shown by the recent YouGov poll) leaving.

Also if throw John Hurt into the mix - the Doctor doesn't even know that he'll be worthy of the name of Doctor in his next incarnation.
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:30
scumcat
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To me it is nothing as complicated as people are trying to make out and certainly not in anyway wimpy.

Ten states regeneration is like death, he also states in Journey's End why would he want to change. 9 states he doesn't know what he'll end up like "I could have two heads or no head etc etc." He is changing into someone or even something completely different and apparently has no control over it. And people seriously think that that isn't in the slightest bit scary? Meh. I'd question them to wake up tomorrow morning with a completely different personality and looks and see how much they wanted to smile the prospect. "I don't want to go" was just an acknowledgement of the sadness the audience would feel about the HUGELY popular 10th Doctor (as shown by the recent YouGov poll) leaving.

Also if throw John Hurt into the mistake - the Doctor doesn't even know that he'll be worthy of the name of Doctor in his next incarnation.
Don't get me wrong I mostly liked David and his portrayal of 10 but if he didn't want to go he should of signed the contract
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:32
Sh'boobie
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I hope 11 has a better end than 10 I've just rewatch the end of time and thought that the last half an hour of the end of time part two dipicts David Tennant's doctor (as written by RTD who i like) to be a bit of cry baby and I hope eleven is given a more dignified send off.
Dignity? Eleven?! Nah... His era is defined by his Newborn-Giraffe-Style clumsiness.

If Eleven doesn't bow out, shouting - "I WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS?!!!" - I will be greatly disappointed.
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:36
scumcat
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Dignity? Eleven?! Nah... His era is defined by his Newborn-Giraffe-Style clumsiness.

If Eleven doesn't bow out, shouting - "I WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS?!!!" - I will be greatly disappointed.
There can still be dignity in Newborn-Giraffe-Style clumsiness

But I hope he goes out as he came in, Geronimo!
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:36
W._O._Frobozz
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I didn't really mind Tennant's end. It sort of suited his character.
The bit I did hate and thought was very out of character was the scene where the Doctor ranted and smashed stuff saying "It's not fair!". That scene made me feel very uncomfortable the first time I watched it and it still does.
Agreed. That one scene with Wilf in the radiation box absolutely wrecked 10's exit for me. 10 could have risen to the occasion like 5 did, but instead he threw an uncharacteristic tantrum. Ending it with "I don't want to go!" was just the icing on the cake for a bad exit (but of course it didn't stop there, we had to have a regeneration absolutely destroy the TARDIS interior for no reason at all as well). Funny how the Master's regeneration didn't blow up the TARDIS interior. Or 9's.

And yes, Two went out kicking and screaming as well but somehow that was more genuine, having been hauled into the office like a truant schoolboy. At least he didn't blame Jamie and Zoe for his predicament, unlike 10 blaming (and then retracting) Wilf.

You'd think the Doctor would have learned from his past...the whole "facing his destiny" thing with the Giant Spider instead of running like a coward. And until 10, he actually didn't run from his destiny (4 facing his doppleganger, knowing the end is near, 5 giving Peri the cure instead of himself, 6 taking a courageous header into the TARDIS console, 9 absorbing the vortex knowing it would kill him). The Doctor's own history is against 10's final actions in The End of Time.
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:40
KezM
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Agreed. That one scene with Wilf in the radiation box absolutely wrecked 10's exit for me. 10 could have risen to the occasion like 5 did, but instead he threw an uncharacteristic tantrum. Ending it with "I don't want to go!" was just the icing on the cake for a bad exit (but of course it didn't stop there, we had to have a regeneration absolutely destroy the TARDIS interior for no reason at all as well). Funny how the Master's regeneration didn't blow up the TARDIS interior. Or 9's.

And yes, Two went out kicking and screaming as well but somehow that was more genuine, having been hauled into the office like a truant schoolboy. At least he didn't blame Jamie and Zoe for his predicament, unlike 10 blaming (and then retracting) Wilf.

You'd think the Doctor would have learned from his past...the whole "facing his destiny" thing with the Giant Spider instead of running like a coward. And until 10, he actually didn't run from his destiny (4 facing his doppleganger, knowing the end is near, 5 giving Peri the cure instead of himself, 6 taking a courageous header into the TARDIS console, 9 absorbing the vortex knowing it would kill him). The Doctor's own history is against 10's final actions in The End of Time.
Except the vital point is whether he kicks and screams about it he does it in end.
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:41
scumcat
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Agreed. That one scene with Wilf in the radiation box absolutely wrecked 10's exit for me. 10 could have risen to the occasion like 5 did, but instead he threw an uncharacteristic tantrum. Ending it with "I don't want to go!" was just the icing on the cake for a bad exit (but of course it didn't stop there, we had to have a regeneration absolutely destroy the TARDIS interior for no reason at all as well). Funny how the Master's regeneration didn't blow up the TARDIS interior. Or 9's.

And yes, Two went out kicking and screaming as well but somehow that was more genuine, having been hauled into the office like a truant schoolboy. At least he didn't blame Jamie and Zoe for his predicament, unlike 10 blaming (and then retracting) Wilf.

You'd think the Doctor would have learned from his past...the whole "facing his destiny" thing with the Giant Spider instead of running like a coward. And until 10, he actually didn't run from his destiny (4 facing his doppleganger, knowing the end is near, 5 giving Peri the cure instead of himself, 6 taking a courageous header into the TARDIS console, 9 absorbing the vortex knowing it would kill him). The Doctor's own history is against 10's final actions in The End of Time.
Wow if I could type faster and better I would have put it that way too.
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:50
yaristaman
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Agreed. That one scene with Wilf in the radiation box absolutely wrecked 10's exit for me. 10 could have risen to the occasion like 5 did, but instead he threw an uncharacteristic tantrum. Ending it with "I don't want to go!" was just the icing on the cake for a bad exit (but of course it didn't stop there, we had to have a regeneration absolutely destroy the TARDIS interior for no reason at all as well). Funny how the Master's regeneration didn't blow up the TARDIS interior. Or 9's.

And yes, Two went out kicking and screaming as well but somehow that was more genuine, having been hauled into the office like a truant schoolboy. At least he didn't blame Jamie and Zoe for his predicament, unlike 10 blaming (and then retracting) Wilf.

You'd think the Doctor would have learned from his past...the whole "facing his destiny" thing with the Giant Spider instead of running like a coward. And until 10, he actually didn't run from his destiny (4 facing his doppleganger, knowing the end is near, 5 giving Peri the cure instead of himself, 6 taking a courageous header into the TARDIS console, 9 absorbing the vortex knowing it would kill him). The Doctor's own history is against 10's final actions in The End of Time.
BIB - Wasn't this because the 10th Doc had absorbed a HUGE amount of radioactive energy though?
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Old 14-06-2013, 13:50
daveyboy7472
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Agreed. That one scene with Wilf in the radiation box absolutely wrecked 10's exit for me. 10 could have risen to the occasion like 5 did, but instead he threw an uncharacteristic tantrum. Ending it with "I don't want to go!" was just the icing on the cake for a bad exit (but of course it didn't stop there, we had to have a regeneration absolutely destroy the TARDIS interior for no reason at all as well). Funny how the Master's regeneration didn't blow up the TARDIS interior. Or 9's.

And yes, Two went out kicking and screaming as well but somehow that was more genuine, having been hauled into the office like a truant schoolboy. At least he didn't blame Jamie and Zoe for his predicament, unlike 10 blaming (and then retracting) Wilf.

You'd think the Doctor would have learned from his past...the whole "facing his destiny" thing with the Giant Spider instead of running like a coward. And until 10, he actually didn't run from his destiny (4 facing his doppleganger, knowing the end is near, 5 giving Peri the cure instead of himself, 6 taking a courageous header into the TARDIS console, 9 absorbing the vortex knowing it would kill him). The Doctor's own history is against 10's final actions in The End of Time.
You forget about the Fourth as well, who also had a destiny to follow in Logopolis as told by the Watcher.(So we assume by what he tells Adric) He knew his time was up and faced it with a certain dignity as indeed did most of the classic Doctors.

I could never work out why the Tenth Doctor got so upset over the fact his time was up, I mean, it's not as the forthcoming regeneration was his first. I suppose as has been said it was just part of his character than he was such an emotional Doctor but it was a shame we saw very little of the normal Tenth Doctor in this bar a few lighter moments at the beginning of The End Of Time.

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