Oo ok

Jeez :yawn:

I really hope she has higher standards but if history is any indication then ...

hmmm I think he's much more her type than Jay was.

Was Sam promised anything? Did he turn down the sort of things that tempted Aaron and Luke, or was he never even put to that particular test?

What work does he do, btw?

In my opinion, we know from Faye's interviews, and comparing them to what we'd seen, that the edit was misleading about her relationship with Aaron; from seeing occasional glimpses of her having fun with Maisy, we know were weren't give a full picture of their friendship or of how much fun Faye had while in the house; and it also seems pretty clear that they left out a lot about her relationship with her sister. At one point, Faye said that 90% of the time she was glad Jem was there (or something like that) and that they'd become closer.


You seem to be saying Faye seemed different outside the house because she was different. Do you think she was portrayed accurately / non-misleadingly while she was in? (I seems to me that she pretty clearly wasn't.)

You only had to watch her best bits vt to know she was really badly portrayed and edited. About half of the stuff in it where she was having fun, being silly and doing impressions didn't make it into the show or the videos on FB.

I remember commenting that People would have loved that Faye. I saw enough to love her as a HM.

Aaron also alluded to it when he said there were times he thought Faye could win as she reminded him of BB3 Kate and he figured viewers would like that.

No surprise there then.

He works at Debenhams. I don't know whether he was promised anything, but he didn't seem to hang about on the offchance. Both Aaron and Luke seemed knocked off balance by the fact that they were promised media work, but that seems to be the way agents are: they promise stuff as a done deal that is only an idea.

I am sure no one is accurately edited because BB is always edited for 'stories'. Hence, for example, the general bafflement when Harry referred to Anton as one of his best friends in the house: clearly no story there so none of it was shown. In the case of Faye, her 'stories' were with Aaron and Jem; we rarely saw her interacting with anyone else. I never really understood why some of Aaron's fans took against her so badly. She seemed self-conscious to me but nothing worse than that.

Then perhaps the reason Sam didn't seem to hang about and wasn't knocked off balance is because he wasn't promised anything by agents.

It seems to be almost an article of faith in this forum that BB doesn't provide any opportunities these days (except maybe a little glamour work); but as recently as bb11, the winner had quite a lot of non-glamour media work. That's treated as an ignorable special case here, but it may not seem that way to someone -- a housemate, or even an agent -- who isn't steeped in the views of places like this.

(Here, the theory seems to be that Josie got media work because C5 (or its owner) was keep to promote BB as it moved to C5. Why that would no longer be a factor after just one series on C5 is not clear.)


On the basis of the edits, you thought Faye "seemed haunted by the thought she might look a fool inside the house"; and on some rather brief views of her outside BB, you thought she "genuinely did seem different outside the house." But she could have been much the same inside the house; the times when she was worried that she might look a fool might well be sufficiently infrequent that she was far from "haunted".

You say her stories were with Aaron and Jem. That might explain why her relationship with Maisy didn't get much coverage, I suppose, and that would be similar, I suppose again, to Harry and Anton's (alleged) friendship being left out. But it doesn't explain why they chose to make her Aaron and Jem stories as misleading as they seem actually to be.

Also, most forms of biased editing can be described as editing for one 'story' rather than another. So conceding only that much about Faye's edit can make it seem she wasn't treated any worse than anyone else, and I'm not sure that's true.

It might be that they thought the whole "will they, won't they, are they, aren't they" kerfuffle could ruin his chances of winning

Yes, true. You have to pick up small clues to see what someone is like outside their 'story' and I don't think my attenna was particularly well tuned. I liked what we saw of Faye and Maisy. Shame Maisy went so early.

I guess so. It did seem at times as if half Aaron's fans were saying, "awww, they are adorable together" and the other half were saying, "step away Aaron! She will ruin your chances!"

If you go back into the depths of the AT there was disagreement about Faye

The management and producers are such an arse when it comes down to editing, all they care about is making money, creating storylines and getting good ratings so more advertising revenue is pumped in. They couldn't care less about the viewer which is a total sham, they thought we preferred jay and louise to faye and aaron which I thought was a very big and foolish mistake.

That can't possibly be true. The producers had what we did not, the voting figures. They KNEW that Aaron was far more popular than Jay. And it's not as if Jay was at all kindly edited: we saw one strop after another from him. I think some of Aaron's fans put a really ludicrous amount of emphasis on a few endlessly referred to bits on BOTS; even then, though I didn't watch it much, it was obvious that sometimes BOTS was quite anti-Jay and Louise.

I guess Caroline bb aren't a charity, if they were it would be a different kettle of fish, its about money making and the rest of it. Think we should listen to Paul and Dan as those two are people that know their stuff about bb, and the coloured lady with the glasses as well as barb verrier if she gets a chance to speak. The rest I couldn't really care about one way or another. One of the problems I find with BBBOTS is the interruptions that audience members get when another person over talks another which I think is the height of bad manners. Its appalling.

Seemed that jay and Louise were very popular with the crowd but not so with BBBOTS always, think Aaron and faye on the other hand seemed like the crowds enemy and some of the celeb guests who came on disspised them. Think its that which made the crowd the way they were to em.

Think there needs to be big changes in the bb management from the top down as they haven't got a clue how to run the show properly.

That sort of comment sends me to Wikipedia to check who was up when, and so on.

Aaron and Jay were both up in week 5 when Aden went, and in week 7, when Harry went; and of course in the final, when Jay came 2nd.

Since we still don't know the voting figures, we also don't know that they show Aaron as "far more popular than Jay." For all we know, it was always fairly close between them when it came to votes.

I don't remember whether BB told us who had the most votes, next most, etc, in the weeks when Jan and Aaron were up. I think they must have at least sometimes told us things like that, since we knew Jem was 2nd highest when Anton went. (I think that's right.)

Such information could tell us more about Aaron vs Jay in votes, but does it? Was there any week when we know Aaron finished above Jay or -- better -- finished above Jay with one or more between them?


We don't know how -- or how intelligently -- the BB producers assesses popularity. Didn't the crowd seems to favour Jay? There are also tweets, comments on the Facebook page and on the C5 BB site, and so on. Nothing says the producers had to think votes trumped everything else.

We also don't know how many votes were cast; and it was the year of cheap Facebook votes. Some people were voting right up to the 500 vote limit, and some may even have used multiple accounts.

It at least seems possible that the producers thought Aaron was doing well because of heavy multi-voting by his fans and that Jay was actually more popular with viewers in general; and that they thought -- perhaps even with an eye on Special Bets explanation for why they'd been wrong in predicting that Ash would win bb7 -- that the online picture was misleading and that results would be different once more 'casual' viewers started voting: especially in the final.

Or they may have wanted Jay to win (for some reason) -- or for Aaron not to -- and have thought that things were close enough between Jay and Aaron that the show could get Jay to win.

I don't see how we can rule such things out.


Actually, it is as if Jay was kindly edited. Unless you're depending completely on the word "kindly", your argument seems to be that since they showed some negative things about Jay, the edit couldn't have made him look better than he was, and so they couldn't have been trying to favour him over Aaron in the edit.

Since such things have been discussed a lot in the past, I'm going to try to take a slightly different approach. There are two distinct, though related, questions. One is about the producer's reasons and intentions; the other is whether the edit made Jay look better than he was, or not. I'm going to take it as given that there are motives that didn't involve trying to help Jay that (so far as we know) the producers could have had, and as given that you think such motives were more likely to be their actual ones. I'm going to consider only the other question: whether the edit made Jay look better than he was, or not.

I think the answer is pretty clearly yes, the edit did make Jay look better -- or, equivalently, less bad -- than he was.

For a start, there's the freezer incident. They didn't show it, or show anyone in the house talking about it, and that made Jay seem less bad than he was. There are reasons -- I think, for instance in Maisy's comments in tweets -- to think there were also other things we weren't shown. That the HMs seemed to see the freezer thing as just Jay being Jay also suggests that.

Aaron has said that Jay threatened him multiple times and that he spoke to BB about it in the DR. We weren't shown the threats or Aaron talking about them in the DR, which (if what Aaron's said is right) made Jay look less bad than he was.

People who remember bb12 and the editing issues better than I do may be able to give other examples. I any case, I don't think I've ever seen anyone point to anything in the edit that made Jay seem worse than he was.

Of course, without a live feed, our ground re the edit isn't as firm as it used to be. It's theoretically possible, at least, that there were things left out in the edit that would have given a better impression of Jay. But it doesn't seem very likely to me that Jay would look better in the full picture than in the edit.


Can you remember any examples of BOTS being quite anti-Jay and Louise?

Anyway, I'm not sure what "endlessly referred to bits" you think "Aaron's fans put a really ludicrous amount of emphasis on", and I don't remember much of their case against BOTS. But I think it was quite telling that when Faye was evicted, she was asked a number of questions about her relationship with Aaron that she answered by mentioning things that the edit hadn't made evident to viewers.

Just wanted to add that we do have definite and proven examples of them making Aaron look bad.

When he went to the DR drunk and saying he didn't know if him and Faye would work. I actually went off him based on that for a while. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and came back to supporting him as it was so obvious that he was in love with Faye by the way he looked and acted round her.

Then when Faye left we found out that he'd spoken to her about his worries the very next morning and they'd put it down to drunkenness.

We also know that after a row they ended an ep with Faye sitting lonely y herself on the bridge whereas the tweets said they'd made up a few minutes later, however the show made it seem the two hadn't spoken for days, covering themselves with an "Aaron and Faye" have made up at the start of an episode.

Just two examples that made Aaron seem worse than he actually was in a given situation.

I await an example of Jay being made to look worse than he was.

The fact that they showed a few minutes of a strop occasionally does not a fair edit make, especially when Aaron Aden and Tom have all said Jay was far worse than shown.

Just because there were occasions when he was shown in a bad light it doesn't mean they weren't protecting him in general.

Does her mother & sister still hate him?

Yes Aaron finished above Jay all three times they were both up for eviction together. In both Aden's and Anton's evictions Aaron came first and Jay third. For Harry's eviction Aaron came first and Jay second.

Her mum met and liked him a few days after leaving the house.

Not sure if he's met Jem yet tbh. From what I can gather from Faye's twitter she tends to go on her own to see Jem.

At a guess I'd say they are probably civil but not best mates yet.

I don't think anyone was interested enough to monitor it closely on his behalf. But they surely gave a nasty edit to his romance with Louise. The only aspect they were interested in was them mentioning poo, so that was, apart from the pirate story, all we ever saw; credulous people then fell into line, saying they were 'fixated' or 'obsessed' with it. When they came out of the house, 99.9% of their conversations seemed to be perfectly normal things about looking forward to having dinner together etc.

Really? From what I saw of tweets between each other, they read like two people who don't like each other, unless they were joking around!

It's possible; but it was Aaron who claimed that a staff member had told him he won by a huge margin. It might not be true of course, but there is no particular reason to suppose he lied.


But I do think that BB's own explanation for this works better than the forum one. They said that they didn't show it because it was distasteful. The forum consensus - or at least Aaron's fans' consensus - was that they didn't show it because they wanted Jay to look good.

BB was still pretty new for Channel 5. They seemed to be promoting it as a young and fun series. And the freezer incident really didn't seem to have any repercussions: the intended victim didn't mind, no one seemed to turn against Jay, it didn't seem to change the nominations. So, bearing in mind that they do have to exclude 99% of what happens in the house, it seems very likely that they decided not to put that rather yukky and sordid prank on the highlights. They were happy to show Jay talking about 'shaving me hoop' and having a public poo, so it wasn't as if they were trying to suggest he could step straight into Downton Abbey.



Yes, but I don't have any faith in Aaron's perception of 'threatened'. We saw him cry because Jay had made a distasteful joke that peripherally mentioned the word 'wheelchair'. I rather suspect that Jay would be amazed at the suggestion that he had seriously threatened Aaron.


Well I have. They made his romance consist almost entirely of talking about poo. This was clearly not the case; but whereas Helen and Paul had been allowed to bore us for hours with their tepid flirting, Jay and Louise were given a Kris and Sophie style blackout except when they said something that people might find objectionable.


Yes, certainly towards the end I can remember some pretty hostile stuff being said about them, and people finding their romance unbelievable or revolting or both.


One example is Nicola McLean's comment about Aaron's "Are you going to the party like that?" question. It wasn't very nice to suggest that he 'sounded like an abusive husband', but it was obvious that she was commenting on this ONE remark. There were literally hundreds of furious posts on here, in which her remark was constantly misquoted, and distorted to sound as if she was describing his general behaviour; also as if people had agreed with her on BOTS instead of shushing her. She got a mountain of abuse on twitter, with people threatening her and calling her really horrible names. I am no great admirer of Nicola McLean, but the way she was treated over that one sentence was disgraceful.

(She may have misunderstood his remark btw; he may have meant nothing more than "do you need time to get changed?" - but I can see that his words COULD be interpreted as controlling and critical. )

Well they were ...Louise herself decided to reveal in her exit interview that Jay wiped his bum with toilet tissue and showed it to her...which she appeared to love and find romantic.

.....and Jay decided to take a pic of his own poo and post it for all to see on his twitter account.

Doing either of those things once would be one time too many for 99% of the population.
So..yep..they had a weird poo fetish.

He did do that, yes. But he was a heavy tweeter (I haven't looked for ages). He must have mentioned going to the gym 1000 times that year. I would suggest that the gym was his obsession, not his poo.

The thing that strikes me about BB12 is that fans took a FAR harder line than the housemates themselves. Apart from a couple of times - the snow task, the birthday presents - Jay and Aaron got on pretty well, for all their rivalry. They seemed, as far as we can tell, to spend a fair amount of time in the sauna together. The highly unwise incident when they shook hands on sharing any prize money was a deal between two men who were pretty at ease with each other. Jay warmly congratulated Aaron when he won.

Positions tend to harden when people are out of the house and find that they have fans who regard the series as having been a war. I have seen it happen with other people. But at the time, there really did not seem to be any major issue between Jay and anyone else in the house.

It was interesting when Aaron was on here, and said that he and Jay were 'similar'. Obviously not educationally: Aaron was quick witted and clever, and Jay was inarticulate and quickly reduced to neanderthal rage when he couldn't score a verbal point. But otherwise, yes, I can see what Aaron meant. They were both confident, competitive men, and both quite angry I think, though one of them could control it and the other couldn't. In different circumstances - playing for the same football team perhaps - I think they would have been quite good friends, with a teasing, bantering relationship. I think Aaron might have been willing to have a post-series friendship to some degree, but Jay seemed to go from friendly feelings to bitter resentment as soon as he saw how his fans saw things. Which was regrettable and immature, but still. And of course the money didn't help.

Speaking of regrets, I do apologise to the world at large for the hard line I took over Aaron not offering to honour the deal he had made. It was a very silly deal, and some of his fans trumpeting that he shouldn't honour it because Jay didn't deserve the money were obnoxious (and immoral imo) but really, when I had cooled down, Alex was the villain of the piece. There was NOTHING ambiguous about that deal, and really shocking that she would think she had the right to keep all the money after swearing publicly to share it. Anyway, she muddied the water enough to get Aaron largely off the hook, since he could hardly be expected to share money that Alex had in her bank account. Little ratbag.