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A retailers assessment of the XBO and PS4 argument


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Old 17-06-2013, 14:03
Whovian
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Interesting to hear the views of someone who makes a living from second hand games.
http://www.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/L...0613172447.htm
Personally, based on what I've seen and heard, no matter how impressive the Xbox is, there is no way I would have such an intrusive piece of electronics in my home and the 'log on every day' to allow you to play games you've bought rubbish is a joke.
Basically, it seems by buying high priced games you are only hiring them as they can be taken away of you get banned! So do we now not own products we buy online and which exist in 'the cloud'?
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Old 17-06-2013, 14:20
sparky07
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Haven't MS already confirmed that if you end up geting banned from Xbox live then you still DO have access to your games?

Pretty sure I read that earlier today on CVG.

I must admit though, all of these threads are just geting a bit silly now. (not having a direct dig at you OP)

At the end of the day the only opinion that matters is my own. I'm yet to pre order either console but my decision won't be made for me just because joe bloggs in whatever country he lives in doesn't have access to the Internet or can only afford pre-owned games etc....
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Old 17-06-2013, 14:44
Red Arrow
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We never owned any game in the first place, ever.
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Old 17-06-2013, 14:46
Speedloafer
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We never owned any game in the first place, ever.
Really? Who owns my copy of Resident Evil Revelations for xbox360?
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Old 17-06-2013, 14:51
Hotbird
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We never owned any game in the first place, ever.
I don't think any publishers will be breaking into my house to take back my disc based games though. While I technically might not own them there is nothing they can do to take them away from me.
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Old 17-06-2013, 14:54
Speedloafer
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I don't think any publishers will be breaking into my house to take back my disc based games though. While I technically might not own them there is nothing they can do to take them away from me.
I have a bill of sale from Tesco, are you really suggesting I don't own my copy of my game? is there some loophole I don't know about?
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Old 17-06-2013, 14:57
Red Arrow
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I have a bill of sale from Tesco, are you really suggesting I don't own my copy of my game? is there some loophole I don't know about?
Your only buying the license to play the game. Technically your not suppose to trade that game on.
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Old 17-06-2013, 14:58
Hotbird
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I have a bill of sale from Tesco, are you really suggesting I don't own my copy of my game? is there some loophole I don't know about?
Technically your just buying a license to use the contents of the disc (Or something like that).
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:00
Speedloafer
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Your only buying the license to play the game. Technically your not suppose to trade that game on.
Where is this written? Are you sure? Licence only next gen from MS yes, but now? Sounds like some pro Microsoft spin to make their next gen seem more acceptable.
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:02
Red Arrow
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Where is this written? Are you sure? Licence only next gen from MS yes, but now? Sounds like some pro Microsoft spin to make their next gen seem more acceptable.
Not some pro MS spin, just pointing out what has always been the case.

Anyway, back to the video. The guy is talking about how it's going to hurt people who trade 2nd hand games, but yet we don't know how MS are going to implement it. So no one can really complain till we see for sure how it affects the gamers and retailers. Right now it's all just hearsay.
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:06
Hotbird
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Where is this written? Are you sure? Licence only next gen from MS yes, but now? Sounds like some pro Microsoft spin to make their next gen seem more acceptable.
Unfortunately it not just pro MS spin. Until now though there has been nothing people can actually do to control what you do with that content you licence so nobody has cared about the technical points. You buy a disc, you own it regardless of whether you have actually just bought a licence to use or own.
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:06
NorfolkBoy1
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This is not a "retailers assessment" , it's some bloke from behind the counter at CEX in Luton.

If I want an opinion on the effect of a raise in grain prices on the domestic meat market, I do not ask Sharon on the tills at Tesco.
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:10
Hotbird
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This is not a "retailers assessment" , it's some bloke from behind the counter at CEX in Luton.

If I want an opinion on the effect of a raise in grain prices on the domestic meat market, I do not ask Sharon on the tills at Tesco.
CEX is a franchisor so he could be the franchisee.
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:11
Speedloafer
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Not some pro MS spin, just pointing out what has always been the case.

Anyway, back to the video. The guy is talking about how it's going to hurt people who trade 2nd hand games, but yet we don't know how MS are going to implement it. So no one can really complain till we see for sure how it affects the gamers and retailers. Right now it's all just hearsay.
If it has always been why don't I know about it? I'm genuinely asking. I find it amazing that I have bought something that I don't actually own. I googled multiple keywords, Do i own my games etc but I cant get anything.

As for the video, its a CEX sales assistant, its not really somebody who makes a living from 2nd hand games. The fact that he is amazed that a device can recognise his own voice in 2013 makes me discount his view immediately. I have a phone that must be 10 years old that can do that. I would be interested to hear from an Independent shop owner though.
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:14
Hotbird
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If it has always been why don't I know about it? I'm genuinely asking.
Because it has never matter before.

MS now have a system for enforcement so could take your licence away digitally. Nobody could take your disc away in the past so nobody care that they bought a licence rather the content.
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:19
TheCrackInTime
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We never owned any game in the first place, ever.

Erm, no. I'm pretty sure the courts have already called BS on that.

Originally Posted by Court of Justice of the European Union, UsedSoft GmbH v Oracle International Corp
Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right.
http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/d...cp120094en.pdf
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:22
Speedloafer
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Because it has never matter before.

MS now have a system for enforcement so could take your licence away digitally. Nobody could take your disc away in the past so nobody care that they bought a licence rather the content.
It doesn't matter what the have coming down the line, I just want to know if the Game I have in my xbox360 right now is mine.

I'm immediately sceptical of "its been like that all along anyway so accept this" especially when nobody knew anything about it. More sceptical if people just say take my word with no proof.

Not that I'm calling anybody a liar, I'm sure you have read/been told this. I'm just trying to find the source.

I mean im looking at the case, nowhere does it say its not mine, or I cant sell it on.
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:29
Hotbird
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It doesn't matter what the have coming down the line, I just want to know if the Game I have in my xbox360 right now is mine.

I'm immediately sceptical of "its been like that all along anyway so accept this" especially when nobody knew anything about it. More sceptical if people just say take my word with no proof.

Not that I'm calling anybody a liar, I'm sure you have read/been told this. I'm just trying to find the source.

I mean im looking at the case, nowhere does it say its not mine, or I cant sell it on.
Technically speaking from an EULA view you own a licence to use that 360 game. However as my original comment in post #5 makes out there is nothing anyone can really do to enforce that view and as such you own it and can do what you want with it.

Things get even more confusing on this subject when you consider what TheCrackInTime talking about as International Law, Region Law and EULA contradict each other a lot (Which is probably why you can find solid information on the subject). Its like the old rules about VCRs which said something about them only been for time-shifting and you couldn't keep recording forever and could only watch recordings a limited number of time, totally unenforceable and people did what they wanted.
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Old 17-06-2013, 15:31
Red Arrow
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It doesn't matter what the have coming down the line, I just want to know if the Game I have in my xbox360 right now is mine.

I'm immediately sceptical of "its been like that all along anyway so accept this" especially when nobody knew anything about it. More sceptical if people just say take my word with no proof.

Not that I'm calling anybody a liar, I'm sure you have read/been told this. I'm just trying to find the source.

I mean im looking at the case, nowhere does it say its not mine, or I cant sell it on.
It's a really grey area, as TheCrackInTime has pointed out it has been thrown out of court before.

http://www.nahmiaslaw.com/the-eula-w...ula-even-mean/

You might ask yourself here, “Why am I being licensed the use of the software? Don’t I own it by virtue of the fact that I bought the disk at a retail store, or downloaded a copy onto my computer from a legitimate online source?” Simply put, the answer is no.
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Old 17-06-2013, 16:05
Speedloafer
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It's a really grey area, as TheCrackInTime has pointed out it has been thrown out of court before.

http://www.nahmiaslaw.com/the-eula-w...ula-even-mean/
Cheers for the link.

Well I loaded up my Resi game after wiping all data off the console to try and get the EULA. But I couldn't (may not be one to agree with) and on the back of the case it says I cant do a lot of things, but makes no mention of ownership or selling on. i'll have look around a bit more
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Old 17-06-2013, 18:43
Old.Tallen
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Your only buying the license to play the game. Technically your not suppose to trade that game on.
EU law disagrees with you. If i buy a game, that product legally belongs to me and I can sell it freely.
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Old 17-06-2013, 18:46
Old.Tallen
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It's a really grey area, as TheCrackInTime has pointed out it has been thrown out of court before.

http://www.nahmiaslaw.com/the-eula-w...ula-even-mean/
Again, this does not apply in the EU, but arguing the point in a court of law for a €50 game is a bit of a nonsense anyway.
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Old 17-06-2013, 18:52
gother
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Really? Who owns my copy of Resident Evil Revelations for xbox360?
Capcom you've only paid for a license to play that game.
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Old 17-06-2013, 20:04
thomas2400
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I feel dizzy

We have gone from license to EU Law to License to EU Law so many times in this thread
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Old 17-06-2013, 20:18
2Dshmuplover
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There is a point where all consoles will eventually be heading up at the same place; digital distribution, it's inevitable. Time to let go else you're in for a world of frustration ahead of you.
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