BT complain to Ofcom about supply Sky sports to BT Youview

Hup_73 · 19-06-2013, 12:54

"UK telecoms regulator Ofcom is to launch an investigation into BSkyB over the supply of its sports channels to rival broadcasters.

It comes after a complaint by BT, which is challenging Sky's dominance of the UK's sports pay-TV market.

The probe will look at the terms on which Sky has offered its sports channels, Sky Sports 1 and Sky Sports 2, to BT's YouView platform. "

Full details below:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22970723

This doesn't surprise me at all - with Youview BT's choosen platform for the future, it was key that they got sky sports on there. Obviously now realising that BT are now a threat to them, Sky must have offered them the channels at a huge cost - knowing that BT couldn't make it work at those costs.

tony le mesmer · 19-06-2013, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hup_73

"UK telecoms regulator Ofcom is to launch an investigation into BSkyB over the supply of its sports channels to rival broadcasters.

It comes after a complaint by BT, which is challenging Sky's dominance of the UK's sports pay-TV market.

The probe will look at the terms on which Sky has offered its sports channels, Sky Sports 1 and Sky Sports 2, to BT's YouView platform. "

Full details below:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22970723

This doesn't surprise me at all - with Youview BT's choosen platform for the future, it was key that they got sky sports on there. Obviously now realising that BT are now a threat to them, Sky must have offered them the channels at a huge cost - knowing that BT couldn't make it work at those costs.

Cost isn't the issue here, it's the fact that Sky is making the supply of Sky Sports to BT (on YouView) conditional on BT making BT Sport available to Sky.

derek500 · 19-06-2013, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hup_73

This doesn't surprise me at all - with Youview BT's choosen platform for the future, it was key that they got sky sports on there. Obviously now realising that BT are now a threat to them, Sky must have offered them the channels at a huge cost - knowing that BT couldn't make it work at those costs.

Of course all six Sky Sports channels are available on TalkTalk's YouView.

Sky are just saying to BT if you want to act as agent, then let us do the same with your channels.

VisionMan1 · 19-06-2013, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

Of course all six Sky Sports channels are available on TalkTalk's YouView.

Sky are just saying to BT if you want to act as agent, then let us do the same with your channels.

Which BT won't. And why should they? As Sky are the dominant provider, who will use any means, either fair or foul, to maintain that position. As such they need to be, and are, regulated by Ofcom.

BT are just broadcasting small fry compared to Sky, and they are just trying to establish a foothold in the market. So Ofcom just won't allow Sky to dictate discriminatory terms to different providers.

gother · 19-06-2013, 18:47

But it's fine for bt to withhold their sports channels from virgin (allegedly)? Hypocrits all three of them are as bad as each other.

VisionMan1 · 19-06-2013, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by gother

But it's fine for bt to withhold their sports channels from virgin (allegedly)? Hypocrits all three of them are as bad as each other.

At first glance the situation would appear to be hypocritical, but it actually isn't. Its about a sport broadcasting giant trying to discriminate against the new, much smaller broadcaster on the block. Ofcom won't allow it.

gother · 19-06-2013, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by VisionMan1

At first glance the situation would appear to be hypocritical, but it actually isn't. Its about a sport broadcasting giant trying to discriminate against the new, much smaller broadcaster on the block. Ofcom won't allow it.

Not the first time Sky have with-held channels tbh look at the Sky Atlantic situation. But really bt shouldn't complain to ofcom if they're allegedly are doing the same thing.
This is just my opinion though.

MJH1962 · 19-06-2013, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by gother

Not the first time Sky have with-held channels tbh look at the Sky Atlantic situation. But really bt shouldn't complain to ofcom if they're allegedly are doing the same thing.
This is just my opinion though.

BT has no legal requirement to wholesale its channels, so why should it? On the other hand, Ofcom ruled in 2010 that Sky had to wholesale Sky Sports 1 & 2. This was after it conducted a review of pay tv following Sky's application to launch its own pay channels on DTT. Ofcom approved Sky's application, although it ("Picnic") has never actually been launched.

As others have said, this is basically down to the dominance that Sky had (and still has) in the pay TV sector and the requirement is a way of allowing competitors to Sky to develop and grow without being crushed by the financial might that Sky has built up.

VisionMan1 · 19-06-2013, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by gother

Not the first time Sky have with-held channels tbh look at the Sky Atlantic situation. But really bt shouldn't complain to ofcom if they're allegedly are doing the same thing.
This is just my opinion though.

Thats also a valid point of view, too. But the (also valid) point that is being made on all the other sub-threads across the forum is that Sky are a broadcasting giant, in comparison to BT's vastly smaller offerings. Sky want a piece of it. And BT have said no. Which is their right, as the much smaller broadcaster. And Ofcom won't get involved in this. Nor should they either, as they are there to encourage new competition.

Though I do think both Virgin Media and TT's YouView platform will get it.

MJH1962 · 19-06-2013, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hup_73

Sky must have offered them the channels at a huge cost - knowing that BT couldn't make it work at those costs.

The cost that Sky charges is set by Ofcom, albeit it did win a legal case to get that amount increased. Therefore, the rate charged to BT is the same as for any other provider such as Virgin or Talk Talk.

VisionMan1 · 19-06-2013, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJH1962

BT has no legal requirement to wholesale its channels, so why should it? On the other hand, Ofcom ruled in 2010 that Sky had to wholesale Sky Sports 1 & 2. This was after it conducted a review of pay tv following Sky's application to launch its own pay channels on DTT. Ofcom approved Sky's application, although it ("Picnic") has never actually been launched.

As others have said, this is basically down to the dominance that Sky had (and still has) in the pay TV sector and the requirement is a way of allowing competitors to Sky to develop and grow without being crushed by the financial might that Sky has built up.

I read your post on the BT Sport TUTV thread. Superb stuff, MJH.

gother · 19-06-2013, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by VisionMan1

Thats also a valid point of view, too. But the (also valid) point that is being made on all the other sub-threads across the forum is that Sky are a broadcasting giant, in comparison to BT's vastly smaller offerings. Sky want a piece of it. And BT have said no. Which is their right, as the much smaller broadcaster. And Ofcom won't get involved in this. Nor should they either, as they are there to encourage new competition.

Though I do think both Virgin Media and TT's YouView platform will get it.

I think there are interesting times ahead me personally i'm not too bothered about sports as i use a vpn so i can simply sub to foxsports etc. One i'm interesting is will BT take Sky on in the movie side of things too. IMHO its about time that Sky faced serious competition.
I agree with you that bt sports will most likely end up on TT and VM too but i wouldn't be surprised if BT offer a online player too.

derek500 · 19-06-2013, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJH1962

The cost that Sky charges is set by Ofcom, albeit it did win a legal case to get that amount increased. Therefore, the rate charged to BT is the same as for any other provider such as Virgin or Talk Talk.

Ofcom didn't set the rate that TalkTalk and Virgin pay for Sky Sports 1-4, Sky Sports News and Sky F1, so is the SS1-2 price relevant for them, or is it mainly a BT and TUTV issue?

VisionMan1 · 19-06-2013, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by gother

I think there are interesting times ahead me personally i'm not too bothered about sports as i use a vpn so i can simply sub to foxsports etc. One i'm interesting is will BT take Sky on in the movie side of things too. IMHO its about time that Sky faced serious competition.
I agree with you that bt sports will most likely end up on TT and VM too but i wouldn't be surprised if BT offer a online player too.

Yeah. But BT won't take on Sky on the movie side of things. This is all just about a fight for BB and telephony custom. And sport is the lowest common denominator to get to that custom.

And they will be offering an online player too -

http://www.bt.com/sport/3-ways-to-watch-bt-sport.html

MostynDS · 20-06-2013, 08:34

Only speculating here, but what is to stop Sky from offering SS1&2 as IP channels on YouView themselves, taking care of billing themselves?

This would be no different to what BT are doing on the Sky platform and would answer all criticism about 'witholding channels' and would give Sky the chance to pitch its BB, telephony and TV services at BT customers.

MJH1962 · 20-06-2013, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

Ofcom didn't set the rate that TalkTalk and Virgin pay for Sky Sports 1-4, Sky Sports News and Sky F1, so is the SS1-2 price relevant for them, or is it mainly a BT and TUTV issue?

Ofcom sets the maximum rate Sky can charge for Sky Sports 1 & 2 on a wholesale basis. BT,Talk Talk and Virgin can agree cheaper deals with Sky if the latter wishes to.

MJH1962 · 20-06-2013, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MostynDS

Only speculating here, but what is to stop Sky from offering SS1&2 as IP channels on YouView themselves, taking care of billing themselves?

This would be no different to what BT are doing on the Sky platform and would answer all criticism about 'witholding channels' and would give Sky the chance to pitch its BB, telephony and TV services at BT customers.

Isn't this what they are doing with Now TV?

Dionbelmont · 20-06-2013, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJH1962

Isn't this what they are doing with Now TV?

Only if you are willing to pay £9.99 a day.
No other subscription is available.

VisionMan1 · 20-06-2013, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dionbelmont

Only if you are willing to pay £9.99 a day.
No other subscription is available.

Not on the YouView platform it isn't. Now TV is VoD only atm.

psionic · 20-06-2013, 17:47

I thought it was £15 per month with a free trial and various discount offers available. And only VoD with no live sky channels currently.

Dionbelmont · 20-06-2013, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by psionic

I thought it was £15 per month with a free trial and various discount offers available. And only VoD with no live sky channels currently.

Youview NOWTV is VOD only & only movies

Roku NOWTV is VOD and live.
The only monthly sub is Movies and is supposedly £15.99, but nobody has ever been charged more tha £8.99
Sky Sports is only available at 9.99 a day

I suspect Sky's primary concern about offering a pay monthly Sky Sports option is the effect it would have on their existing subscriber base.

VisionMan1 · 20-06-2013, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dionbelmont

Youview NOWTV is VOD only & only movies

Roku NOWTV is VOD and live.
The only monthly sub is Movies and is supposedly £15.99, but nobody has ever been charged more tha £8.99
Sky Sports is only available at 9.99 a day

I suspect Sky's primary concern about offering a pay monthly Sky Sports option is the effect it would have on their existing subscriber base.

They were talking about YouView !

My ROKU obsessed friend.

19-06-2013, 12:54	#1
Hup_73 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 301	BT complain to Ofcom about supply Sky sports to BT Youview "UK telecoms regulator Ofcom is to launch an investigation into BSkyB over the supply of its sports channels to rival broadcasters. It comes after a complaint by BT, which is challenging Sky's dominance of the UK's sports pay-TV market. The probe will look at the terms on which Sky has offered its sports channels, Sky Sports 1 and Sky Sports 2, to BT's YouView platform. " Full details below: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22970723 This doesn't surprise me at all - with Youview BT's choosen platform for the future, it was key that they got sky sports on there. Obviously now realising that BT are now a threat to them, Sky must have offered them the channels at a huge cost - knowing that BT couldn't make it work at those costs.

19-06-2013, 13:14	#2
tony le mesmer Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 802	Quote: Originally Posted by Hup_73 "UK telecoms regulator Ofcom is to launch an investigation into BSkyB over the supply of its sports channels to rival broadcasters. It comes after a complaint by BT, which is challenging Sky's dominance of the UK's sports pay-TV market. The probe will look at the terms on which Sky has offered its sports channels, Sky Sports 1 and Sky Sports 2, to BT's YouView platform. " Full details below: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22970723 This doesn't surprise me at all - with Youview BT's choosen platform for the future, it was key that they got sky sports on there. Obviously now realising that BT are now a threat to them, Sky must have offered them the channels at a huge cost - knowing that BT couldn't make it work at those costs. Cost isn't the issue here, it's the fact that Sky is making the supply of Sky Sports to BT (on YouView) conditional on BT making BT Sport available to Sky.

19-06-2013, 13:17	#3
derek500 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 20,375	Quote: Originally Posted by Hup_73 This doesn't surprise me at all - with Youview BT's choosen platform for the future, it was key that they got sky sports on there. Obviously now realising that BT are now a threat to them, Sky must have offered them the channels at a huge cost - knowing that BT couldn't make it work at those costs. Of course all six Sky Sports channels are available on TalkTalk's YouView. Sky are just saying to BT if you want to act as agent, then let us do the same with your channels.

19-06-2013, 18:22	#4
VisionMan1 Inactive Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,107	Quote: Originally Posted by derek500 Of course all six Sky Sports channels are available on TalkTalk's YouView. Sky are just saying to BT if you want to act as agent, then let us do the same with your channels. Which BT won't. And why should they? As Sky are the dominant provider, who will use any means, either fair or foul, to maintain that position. As such they need to be, and are, regulated by Ofcom. BT are just broadcasting small fry compared to Sky, and they are just trying to establish a foothold in the market. So Ofcom just won't allow Sky to dictate discriminatory terms to different providers.

19-06-2013, 18:47	#5
gother Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Venus and Mars Posts: 9,027	But it's fine for bt to withhold their sports channels from virgin (allegedly)? Hypocrits all three of them are as bad as each other.

19-06-2013, 18:54	#6
VisionMan1 Inactive Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,107	Quote: Originally Posted by gother But it's fine for bt to withhold their sports channels from virgin (allegedly)? Hypocrits all three of them are as bad as each other. At first glance the situation would appear to be hypocritical, but it actually isn't. Its about a sport broadcasting giant trying to discriminate against the new, much smaller broadcaster on the block. Ofcom won't allow it.

19-06-2013, 20:00	#7
gother Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Venus and Mars Posts: 9,027	Quote: Originally Posted by VisionMan1 At first glance the situation would appear to be hypocritical, but it actually isn't. Its about a sport broadcasting giant trying to discriminate against the new, much smaller broadcaster on the block. Ofcom won't allow it. Not the first time Sky have with-held channels tbh look at the Sky Atlantic situation. But really bt shouldn't complain to ofcom if they're allegedly are doing the same thing. This is just my opinion though.

19-06-2013, 21:00	#8
MJH1962 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: East Sussex Posts: 163	Quote: Originally Posted by gother Not the first time Sky have with-held channels tbh look at the Sky Atlantic situation. But really bt shouldn't complain to ofcom if they're allegedly are doing the same thing. This is just my opinion though. BT has no legal requirement to wholesale its channels, so why should it? On the other hand, Ofcom ruled in 2010 that Sky had to wholesale Sky Sports 1 & 2. This was after it conducted a review of pay tv following Sky's application to launch its own pay channels on DTT. Ofcom approved Sky's application, although it ("Picnic") has never actually been launched. As others have said, this is basically down to the dominance that Sky had (and still has) in the pay TV sector and the requirement is a way of allowing competitors to Sky to develop and grow without being crushed by the financial might that Sky has built up.

19-06-2013, 21:02	#9
VisionMan1 Inactive Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,107	Quote: Originally Posted by gother Not the first time Sky have with-held channels tbh look at the Sky Atlantic situation. But really bt shouldn't complain to ofcom if they're allegedly are doing the same thing. This is just my opinion though. Thats also a valid point of view, too. But the (also valid) point that is being made on all the other sub-threads across the forum is that Sky are a broadcasting giant, in comparison to BT's vastly smaller offerings. Sky want a piece of it. And BT have said no. Which is their right, as the much smaller broadcaster. And Ofcom won't get involved in this. Nor should they either, as they are there to encourage new competition. Though I do think both Virgin Media and TT's YouView platform will get it.

19-06-2013, 21:03	#10
MJH1962 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: East Sussex Posts: 163	Quote: Originally Posted by Hup_73 Sky must have offered them the channels at a huge cost - knowing that BT couldn't make it work at those costs. The cost that Sky charges is set by Ofcom, albeit it did win a legal case to get that amount increased. Therefore, the rate charged to BT is the same as for any other provider such as Virgin or Talk Talk.

19-06-2013, 21:05	#11
VisionMan1 Inactive Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,107	Quote: Originally Posted by MJH1962 BT has no legal requirement to wholesale its channels, so why should it? On the other hand, Ofcom ruled in 2010 that Sky had to wholesale Sky Sports 1 & 2. This was after it conducted a review of pay tv following Sky's application to launch its own pay channels on DTT. Ofcom approved Sky's application, although it ("Picnic") has never actually been launched. As others have said, this is basically down to the dominance that Sky had (and still has) in the pay TV sector and the requirement is a way of allowing competitors to Sky to develop and grow without being crushed by the financial might that Sky has built up. I read your post on the BT Sport TUTV thread. Superb stuff, MJH.

19-06-2013, 21:30	#12
gother Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Venus and Mars Posts: 9,027	Quote: Originally Posted by VisionMan1 Thats also a valid point of view, too. But the (also valid) point that is being made on all the other sub-threads across the forum is that Sky are a broadcasting giant, in comparison to BT's vastly smaller offerings. Sky want a piece of it. And BT have said no. Which is their right, as the much smaller broadcaster. And Ofcom won't get involved in this. Nor should they either, as they are there to encourage new competition. Though I do think both Virgin Media and TT's YouView platform will get it. I think there are interesting times ahead me personally i'm not too bothered about sports as i use a vpn so i can simply sub to foxsports etc. One i'm interesting is will BT take Sky on in the movie side of things too. IMHO its about time that Sky faced serious competition. I agree with you that bt sports will most likely end up on TT and VM too but i wouldn't be surprised if BT offer a online player too.

19-06-2013, 21:44	#13
derek500 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 20,375	Quote: Originally Posted by MJH1962 The cost that Sky charges is set by Ofcom, albeit it did win a legal case to get that amount increased. Therefore, the rate charged to BT is the same as for any other provider such as Virgin or Talk Talk. Ofcom didn't set the rate that TalkTalk and Virgin pay for Sky Sports 1-4, Sky Sports News and Sky F1, so is the SS1-2 price relevant for them, or is it mainly a BT and TUTV issue?

19-06-2013, 21:44	#14
VisionMan1 Inactive Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,107	Quote: Originally Posted by gother I think there are interesting times ahead me personally i'm not too bothered about sports as i use a vpn so i can simply sub to foxsports etc. One i'm interesting is will BT take Sky on in the movie side of things too. IMHO its about time that Sky faced serious competition. I agree with you that bt sports will most likely end up on TT and VM too but i wouldn't be surprised if BT offer a online player too. Yeah. But BT won't take on Sky on the movie side of things. This is all just about a fight for BB and telephony custom. And sport is the lowest common denominator to get to that custom. And they will be offering an online player too - http://www.bt.com/sport/3-ways-to-watch-bt-sport.html

20-06-2013, 08:34	#15
MostynDS Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 773	Only speculating here, but what is to stop Sky from offering SS1&2 as IP channels on YouView themselves, taking care of billing themselves? This would be no different to what BT are doing on the Sky platform and would answer all criticism about 'witholding channels' and would give Sky the chance to pitch its BB, telephony and TV services at BT customers.

20-06-2013, 14:47	#16
MJH1962 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: East Sussex Posts: 163	Quote: Originally Posted by derek500 Ofcom didn't set the rate that TalkTalk and Virgin pay for Sky Sports 1-4, Sky Sports News and Sky F1, so is the SS1-2 price relevant for them, or is it mainly a BT and TUTV issue? Ofcom sets the maximum rate Sky can charge for Sky Sports 1 & 2 on a wholesale basis. BT,Talk Talk and Virgin can agree cheaper deals with Sky if the latter wishes to.

20-06-2013, 14:49	#17
MJH1962 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: East Sussex Posts: 163	Quote: Originally Posted by MostynDS Only speculating here, but what is to stop Sky from offering SS1&2 as IP channels on YouView themselves, taking care of billing themselves? This would be no different to what BT are doing on the Sky platform and would answer all criticism about 'witholding channels' and would give Sky the chance to pitch its BB, telephony and TV services at BT customers. Isn't this what they are doing with Now TV?

20-06-2013, 16:58	#18
Dionbelmont Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Winter Hill Posts: 248	Quote: Originally Posted by MJH1962 Isn't this what they are doing with Now TV? Only if you are willing to pay £9.99 a day. No other subscription is available.

20-06-2013, 17:26	#19
VisionMan1 Inactive Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,107	Quote: Originally Posted by Dionbelmont Only if you are willing to pay £9.99 a day. No other subscription is available. Not on the YouView platform it isn't. Now TV is VoD only atm.

20-06-2013, 17:47	#20
psionic Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Crystal Palace TX Posts: 19,702	I thought it was £15 per month with a free trial and various discount offers available. And only VoD with no live sky channels currently.

20-06-2013, 18:19	#21
Dionbelmont Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Winter Hill Posts: 248	Quote: Originally Posted by psionic I thought it was £15 per month with a free trial and various discount offers available. And only VoD with no live sky channels currently. Youview NOWTV is VOD only & only movies Roku NOWTV is VOD and live. The only monthly sub is Movies and is supposedly £15.99, but nobody has ever been charged more tha £8.99 Sky Sports is only available at 9.99 a day I suspect Sky's primary concern about offering a pay monthly Sky Sports option is the effect it would have on their existing subscriber base.

DS Forums

BT complain to Ofcom about supply Sky sports to BT Youview

20-06-2013, 19:04	#22
VisionMan1 Inactive Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,107	Quote: Originally Posted by Dionbelmont Youview NOWTV is VOD only & only movies Roku NOWTV is VOD and live. The only monthly sub is Movies and is supposedly £15.99, but nobody has ever been charged more tha £8.99 Sky Sports is only available at 9.99 a day I suspect Sky's primary concern about offering a pay monthly Sky Sports option is the effect it would have on their existing subscriber base. They were talking about YouView ! My ROKU obsessed friend.