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The market research is a bad trap |
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#1 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,851
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The market research is a bad trap
Listen to it, you're not using your initiative
Don't listen to it, you're an idiot for not going with the advice
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#2 |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,637
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That what I was thinking as well.
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#3 |
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Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,259
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I agree. Alan has criticised people for ignoring it in the past.
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#4 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Over there
Posts: 14,833
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Agree. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
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#5 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: England
Posts: 9,952
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Quote:
Agree. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Though, I do like how every series a team always stereotypes the Over-50s market [for whatever] in exactly the same fashion. Is it a running gag, or have none of them watched the show before applying?
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#6 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,714
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The point is they don't actually have time or resources to do sensible market research. A few people in a pub does not a focus group make! So it's nearly always a complete red herring.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
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Quote:
The point is they don't actually have time or resources to do sensible market research. A few people in a pub does not a focus group make! So it's nearly always a complete red herring.
Basically, if you lose and hadn't listen to the focus group, you ignored your target consumers. If you lose and did listen to the focus group, you should've gone with your instincts. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Wales
Posts: 5,865
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I think the down fall is, as we have often seen when people aren't fully behind the idea, they just ask a straight forward question "do you like such and such" answer no and they can then tell the PM they're idea is crap. They should engage more, and find out why the people don't like "such and such" and then try to explain why they're idea might work.
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#9 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Sticks
Posts: 711
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Sugar is very inconsistent about what's a mistake and what isn't.
As people here seem to have noted, losing is the only real mistake. |
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#10 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
I think the down fall is, as we have often seen when people aren't fully behind the idea, they just ask a straight forward question "do you like such and such" answer no and they can then tell the PM they're idea is crap. They should engage more, and find out why the people don't like "such and such" and then try to explain why they're idea might work.
The worst thing you can do is what most teams seem to do, which is to jump straight to "Do you like our idea (which personally I disagree with but it's what the PM wants us to do, hint, hint)?" Because all you get then is a surface reaction, usually based on the first one or two people to speak. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 11,474
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Quote:
Sugar is very inconsistent about what's a mistake and what isn't.
As people here seem to have noted, losing is the only real mistake.
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#12 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Sticks
Posts: 711
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Quote:
I think his point was that there are times you should ignore the focus group and times when you shouldn't - its knowing when thats the problem
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#13 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,587
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Quote:
The worst thing you can do is what most teams seem to do, which is to jump straight to "Do you like our idea (which personally I disagree with but it's what the PM wants us to do, hint, hint)?" Because all you get then is a surface reaction, usually based on the first one or two people to speak.
'Do you like [idea a]? Okay and what do you think of [idea b]? Okay, so if you had a choice, which one of these would you buy?' sort of thing. |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,345
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I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that. The only thing I would say is that it's better to do that with a few ideas:
'Do you like [idea a]? Okay and what do you think of [idea b]? Okay, so if you had a choice, which one of these would you buy?' sort of thing. As with all qualitative (non-numerical) research, the aim should always be to keep your mind open for as long as possible. If you limit the field of play immediately, that's all you will ever get a response on. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Even in situations where you're asking focus groups to choose between options, though, you're trying to assess what they really think. If you ask a group to make an immediate judgement, that's exactly what they'll do. They will say which they prefer, but they won't necessarily tell you that they don't really like either, and it doesn't give them the opportunity to give you the insight that tells you that there is an even better option which hasn't been considered.
As with all qualitative (non-numerical) research, the aim should always be to keep your mind open for as long as possible. If you limit the field of play immediately, that's all you will ever get a response on. |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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I think it's fine to suggest ideas that you've already had, so long as you're open to them hating the idea. Like in Young Apprentice Series 2, Episode 5 for example. Zara's team had a very strong idea that they'd already planned out on storyboards; then they asked the focus groups, and the focus group hated the idea, so they had to completely flip their idea at the last minute. Which a lot of people probably wouldn't have done, but it was the right call to make.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Wales
Posts: 5,865
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It's fine to talk about your concept, just don't open with it. It's a bit like asking someone to run a 100m sprint before they've warmed up properly. Every professionally-run focus group I've attended (at least a dozen) has opened the same way. Establish the baseline. Set nervous participants ar ease. Then ask them the big question. Softly, softly, catchy monkey, as it were.
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#18 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 2,345
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Yep, never ask a question that can be answered Yes or No
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#19 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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It did seem as though N and F were leading the focus group a bit rather than trying to coax out their real opinions. Thing is Jason wouldnt have a clue as he wasnt there.
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#20 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Wales
Posts: 5,865
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It did seem as though N and F were leading the focus group a bit rather than trying to coax out their real opinions. Thing is Jason wouldnt have a clue as he wasnt there.
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
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Quote:
Even in situations where you're asking focus groups to choose between options, though, you're trying to assess what they really think. If you ask a group to make an immediate judgement, that's exactly what they'll do. They will say which they prefer, but they won't necessarily tell you that they don't really like either, and it doesn't give them the opportunity to give you the insight that tells you that there is an even better option which hasn't been considered.
As with all qualitative (non-numerical) research, the aim should always be to keep your mind open for as long as possible. If you limit the field of play immediately, that's all you will ever get a response on. They didn't define, so couldn't identify who they should be talking to. Defining the market though requires you understand your market in the first place - and they didn't. Because they didn't, it also becomes impossible to say these people don't represent either the age group in general, or the market we are after. You end up inevitably following what the people tell you, because you have no reason to question if they are the wrong people. You then inevitably end up with a bland offering that meets their needs, and reflects the simple view you have taken of "old people" and what they want. Thats pretty likely to go wrong anyway when you have too few people, and you lack the understanding that someone who does this professionally will have. The professional will come with lists of sub categories of old folk, they will know which they are aiming at, they will notice if they have the wrong people in their focus group, and they will be trained how to ask the questions. There's also the show artificiality factor . Did they pick their own people to use as market research or did some producer organise a few willing, generic, old folk off the street? Did they pick carelessly, or intend to pick the wrong ones? Like the reason why Jason turned up two hours late to build his website, we just don't know. Basically the wise decision was what Luisa and Francesca, and the other team, said - don't pick a target audience that you know nothing about - pick one that you understand anyway. Lord Sugar blurred that with his usual assumption that he knows everything, and his failure to realise he was an over 50 and understood that market because he was part of it himself, but it was basically the right call. Everything that went wrong - besides Jason dithering, and arriving late, ruining the website - basically stems from venturing into an area where they knew too little even to ask the right questions. |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 155
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Quote:
Basically the wise decision was what Luisa and Francesca, and the other team, said - don't pick a target audience that you know nothing about - pick one that you understand anyway. Lord Sugar blurred that with his usual assumption that he knows everything, and his failure to realise he was an over 50 and understood that market because he was part of it himself, but it was basically the right call. Everything that went wrong - besides Jason dithering, and arriving late, ruining the website - basically stems from venturing into an area where they knew too little even to ask the right questions.
If you can only market products to people like yourself, white, young professionals in their case then they are cutting off most of the market. |
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#23 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ashington, Northumberland
Posts: 9,004
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I think the key is not going with everything that people say but take what you think will work best and go with it.
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