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Why on Earth did Lord Sugar say not to listen to the market research?


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Old 19-06-2013, 22:42
george.millman
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Okay, I know that there is another thread about this, but it didn't seem very popular, and I thought this warranted one that was a bit more prominent...

Secret Signals, Pooch Pouch, Flex'n'Store, Splish Splash, The Professional Woman... all projects that went completely pear-shaped for one reason... the Project Manager didn't listen to what the focus group said! Throughout all the series, the focus group has been a key point in choosing the right idea. The whole point of employing a focus group is to get some idea of what the market wants. You ignore a focus group - a focus group made up of your target market - at your own risk, and it has been shown time and again how dangerous it is to put your own opinions above what a focus group tells you.

I really don't understand why Lord Sugar suggested that they ignore what the focus group tells them. Did I maybe not understand the point of what he was saying? It was later implied that Francesca had asked the wrong questions - did he mean that they hadn't conducted the market research effectively?

The only other occasion I can think of when a team was told off for listening to the market research was in Series 6 with the Octi-Kleen product. On that occasion I thought that that was fair enough, because they didn't actually listen to the market research and think creatively around it. They just heard a woman mention an octopus with eight hands in a brainstorm, and from that moment on they'd latched onto the octopus idea without really thinking about it. On this occasion, it just seems bizarre. Can someone shine some light on this for me? In the past, I've usually at least understood Lord Sugar's point, even if I don't personally agree. With this one I'm just completely baffled, and a little disconcerted.
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Old 19-06-2013, 23:04
AbMan51
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Knowing when to play it safe or take a risk is a business skill in itself, especially in creative tasks such as this. In this instance had Jason followed his gut instinct, which he himself admitted was hard for him to do, he would have had a more co-ordinated campaingn with a USP.
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Old 19-06-2013, 23:05
george.millman
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Knowing when to play it safe or take a risk is a business skill in itself, especially in creative tasks such as this. In this instance had Jason followed his gut instinct, which he himself admitted was hard for him to do, he would have had a more co-ordinated campaingn with a USP.
Oh yes, knowing when to take a risk is certainly good, but I can't see why anyone on the team would know more about what their target market wants than the target market itself! Otherwise, what is even the point of asking them?
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Old 19-06-2013, 23:07
Evil Genius
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Nah, I think it was just Shugs changing the rules again.
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Old 19-06-2013, 23:08
george.millman
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Nah, I think it was just Shugs changing the rules again.
So what would you say his opinion on following market research is? If you just asked him, in a conversation unrelated to the show, what do you reckon he would say?
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Old 19-06-2013, 23:18
Evil Genius
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So what would you say his opinion on following market research is? If you just asked him, in a conversation unrelated to the show, what do you reckon he would say?
"Blahdy, blahdy, market reysearch, awight, blahdy..." probably.


Seriously, if anyone is on Twitter, maybe they could ask scrotum features what his opinion actually is?

Over to you Twitter elves...
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Old 19-06-2013, 23:33
thenetworkbabe
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Knowing when to play it safe or take a risk is a business skill in itself, especially in creative tasks such as this. In this instance had Jason followed his gut instinct, which he himself admitted was hard for him to do, he would have had a more co-ordinated campaingn with a USP.
But the initial skill, as Francesca and Luisa identified, was picking an area where you could make that call because you had a perspective yourself. As they said, they didn't know what 50 plus people wanted - so they had to go on what they were told.


We don't know what the constraints were on the advert. Or even what over 50 was meant to mean.Or how representative or large their market research sample was. They seemed to identify it as just meaning "old" They could have only had people who looked 60 available to film , or they could have been looking at targetting people from 50 to 80 - which might suggest they needed a smaller target audience to design any advert for?
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Old 19-06-2013, 23:59
sutie
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Damned if they do, and damned if they don't if you ask me.
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Old 20-06-2013, 00:15
Malik24
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It was odd. I'd kind of get a 'listen to the market research, but if your gut instinct is really against it and has a better idea, go for that' type angle but it was like 'you're entrepreneurs, forget about market research'. Perhaps it was more that he had the impression they were using the market research as an excuse for a lack of good ideas.

It seemed that later on it was more that they came from the wrong angle to begin with and so their market research wasn't accurate for the demographic they were aiming at. Not sure - maybe if we'd seen the full talk we'd have a better picture of it.
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Old 20-06-2013, 00:17
fireemblemcraze
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Damned if they do, and damned if they don't if you ask me.
He contradicts himself far too much. I mean haven't we been told right from S1 that it's good to listen to market research.
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Old 20-06-2013, 00:27
Sammy2
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It's because he is 'results based' and needs to criticize the losing team.
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Old 20-06-2013, 00:31
rwebster
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Depends what mood he's in. Today he's having pancakes for breakfast, he doesn't listen to market research, and Danny is his best one out of McFly - but who knows?! Tomorrow is another day!
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Old 20-06-2013, 00:33
tabithakitten
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He contradicts himself far too much. I mean haven't we been told right from S1 that it's good to listen to market research.
Well aint that the truth.

Follow your instinct and ignore the focus groups if you think they're wrong.
Listen to the bloody research. You did it for a reason idiots.

Respect your project manager. Otherwise you're toast.
Ignore your project manager and go with your own ideas. Your PM could well be an idiot and to follow them blindly could be a stupid move.

Go for the risky, high-priced item because taking risks can pay dividends.
Don't go for the risky, high-priced item because it's too risky and too high-priced.

Plan ahead and prepare. The time before action on a task can be invaluable.
Don't waste time and get stuck in. You're not here for a blahddy 'olliday.

Save, save, save. Spend as little as possible and bugger customer satisfaction. We'll be a million miles away before they can bleat "Discount".
What are you cheapskates? How the hell did you expect to win without investing in quality? I've got angry birds demanding discounts aplenty now.

Lord Sugar - Changing the rules for your entertainment.
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Old 20-06-2013, 00:59
george.millman
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I've generally defended Lord Sugar in situations like this. I've always said that he's not as fickle as people think, and he generally has good reasons for his thoughts, even if I don't personally agree with them - but I just can't defend him on this one, I'm sorry. It makes no sense at all.
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Old 20-06-2013, 01:48
DavetheScot
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I think the decision to ignore or follow market research only becomes right or wrong in retrospect depending on whether they win or not.
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Old 20-06-2013, 02:53
totalwise
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its not market research, its a very small focus group. the wrong person doing the research can influence the way people respond.
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Old 20-06-2013, 03:51
ryanr554
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Honestly, relying on the market research depends on whether it turned out good or bad, they will be blamed for listening to it if it is wrong and they will be blamed for ignoring it.

Saying this though, I do think they played it safe, you can't do everything the consumer wants or else it is too safe, you should offer them something they didn't know they wanted. Obviously it is a risk since it won't be based off of research but business is all about taking risks.
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Old 20-06-2013, 04:29
mimik1uk
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they didn't really do proper market research tho , they talked to 3 or 4 people in a pub and allowed that feedback to over-rule their own instincts and go down a very old-fashioned and dated path rather than do something innovative
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Old 20-06-2013, 07:21
slouchingthatch
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When you talk to one small focus group - not the team's fault, it's how the task is set up - the risk you run is that you get a bland, unrepresentative view.

Sugar's comments are inconsistent. Of course, you should listen to what research tells you - it's better than having no research - but equally you can't trust it blindly. Someone should either have asked more probing questions of the focus group to understand whether this was really what they wanted, or they should have realised that they were going down a very dull route. So, not ignoring the research completely, but not following it slavishly either.

As a previous poster said, you have to apply some business sense to the research and work out how to make it an attractive proposition, not just assume that consumers know what they want. Consumers rarely know exactly what they want!
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Old 20-06-2013, 07:39
clm2071
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Listen to market research and win task - great decision to listen to market research

Listen to market research and lose task - should have realised market research was wrong

Ignore market research and win - great decision to ignore it

Ignore market research and lose - terrible decision to ignore it, you should always listen to it!

It all adds up to one thing.....market research is worth Jack in The Apprentice! They are damned if they do and damned if they don't
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Old 20-06-2013, 07:53
CaroUK
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But the initial skill, as Francesca and Luisa identified, was picking an area where you could make that call because you had a perspective yourself. As they said, they didn't know what 50 plus people wanted - so they had to go on what they were told
With respect - that is a load of cods wallop!

Ad agency staff are generally young, and manage to create material suitable for all age groups be it babies, children, their peers or older people...... Having personal knowledge of all markets is impossible - which is why focus groups are used.... To give the perspective which the creative team lack!

In the real world, something like this would be developed over weeks if not months, and would involve more than one focus group to ensure that skewed results didn't send them off in the wrong direction. On the limited evidence they had, their focus group (which did seem to be from the upper end of the age range) were saying that they didn't like what was proposed - although as we saw very little of the actual questions they were asked its very possible that they were asked leading questions.....
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Old 20-06-2013, 08:04
WinterFire
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I think the decision to ignore or follow market research only becomes right or wrong in retrospect depending on whether they win or not.
Agreed. The style of The Apprentice is that the winning team is congratulated on doing a good job, while the losing team was awful. In many cases both team did a very similar bad job, or (rarely) a similarly good job. In these cases, the sizeable difference between the teams' performance needs to be made up, more or less. And they don't seem to bother about being consistent over time.
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Old 20-06-2013, 08:37
Alrightmate
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People have been fired in this show before on the basis that they didn't listen to the market research.

Last night Sugar moves the goalposts and tells candidates to not bother listening to the market research.

Doesn't add up.
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Old 20-06-2013, 09:35
slouchingthatch
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People have been fired in this show before on the basis that they didn't listen to the market research.

Last night Sugar moves the goalposts and tells candidates to not bother listening to the market research.

Doesn't add up.
It doesn't, but the point that Sugar makes that is valid is that you shouldn't listen slavishly to the research. Evolve did that, taking a slightly dodgy concept and then executing the ad poorly. They seemed to forget that the whole point of advertising is to grab our limited attention and make us take notice - their ad failed to do that and that was as much about the ad concept as the research.

Also, as CaroUK points out, we don't know what type of questions Francesca and Neil asked, or how deeply they probed the group's objections to their original, more fun concept. I've done plenty of research projects, and although I know what I want to achieve there is a real skill in getting beneath the surface of what a focus group thinks without leading them with your questions. Even then, individual focus groups are notoriously unreliable as they can be easily skewed by the opinions of one or two vocal people.

I may be doing them a misjustice but I got the sense that Francesca and Neil's line of questioning was basically: Here's our concept, do you like it? No. Okay, what would you like? Okay, then.

There's a reason market research agencies exist - they do this job better than any random businessperson.
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Old 20-06-2013, 09:47
AOTB
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Damned if they do, and damned if they don't if you ask me.
Spot on.

Much like politicians do, LAS, Nick, Karen and the TV production team can pretty much put a spin on anything they so desire, especially once the task results are in. Hindsight can be a wonderful thing.

If someone ignores a bit of market research and then they lose they could be hauled over the coals for not listening to the advice and following their gut instinct.

It's just as likely that someone follows the market research implicitly, they lose and they will then be hauled over the very same coals for listening to the advice and not following their gut instinct.

This is a staple of the Apprentice and most other shows of it's ilk. Still it makes for more entertaining tv which is mainly what this is all about.
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