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Old 25-06-2013, 11:55
mred2000
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My main PC only has 1 intake fan, a cpu fan and a gpu fan... no extractors. As I've started playing a few more 3D games on there I've noticed the cpu and gpu temps jumping up into the 50's so think it's time I added another fan or two...

Question is do I just add 1 extractor, 2 extractors, an extractor and another intake or what? What would folk advise?

Also, there are dust filters on the top 2 intakes (CoolerMaster Elite 430) but I was thinking of putting an extractor on the top which even the CM website illustrates. I'm guessing that would be alright?

My initial thoughts are an intake on the side and an extractor on the top or rear... (or another intake on the top where there's a dust filter and an extractor on the rear...)

I'm also guessing it's not just a simple matter of fitting them and then plugging them in or is it?

(I'm currently thinking a couple of these would do the job but happy to hear recommendations from others: http://www.quietpc.com/nf-s12a-uln )
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Old 25-06-2013, 12:15
flagpole
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if you have more fans extracting than you do as intakes then you will suck air in through the gaps which may not be dust filtered. you need more intakes than extractors generally. you probably also have an extractor on your psu.

additionally if you think about it, if you have an intake a 40cubic feet per minute you will have 40 CFM following through your case. if you add an extractor to this also running at 40CFM you will still have 40CFM flowing through your case.

so you have gained no flow from the second fan. you may have more control over the direction of the air flow as you can be sure where it's travelling, useful if you can put the intake on the front bottom say and the extractor on the back top. but no extra flow. if the two are near each other this is not great.

if however you add another intake instead of the extractor you will have 80CFM flowing through your case, which would usually be preferable. especially if there is an obvious and well positioned vent for the air to come out of.
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Old 25-06-2013, 12:20
mred2000
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if you have more fans extracting than you do as intakes then you will suck air in through the gaps which will not be dust filtered. you need more intakes than extractors. you probably also have an extractor on your psu.
Yep, I do... forgot about that one...

additionally if you think about it, if you have an intake a 40cubic feet per minute you will have 40 CFM following through your case. if you add an extractor to this also running at 40CFM you will still have 40CFM flowing through your case.

so you have gained no flow from the second fan. you may have more control over the direction of the air flow as you can be sure where it's travelling, useful if you can put the intake on the front bottom say and the extractor on the back top. but no extra flow. if the two are near each other this is not great.

if however you add another intake instead of the extractor you will have 80CFM flowing through your case, which would usually be preferable. especially if there is an obvious and well positioned vent for the air to come out of.
That makes a lot of sense, and something that was completely missed from the couple of positive air flow articles I just had a look at... Ta!
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Old 25-06-2013, 12:26
flagpole
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to add. 50 degrees is not hot under load at all.

looking at your case any of the fan location in the diagram would seem to be ideal. maybe a front and side intake and an extractor at the back or top.

fitting fans is pretty simple. what is your motherboard?
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Old 25-06-2013, 12:31
flagpole
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That makes a lot of sense, and something that was completely missed from the couple of positive air flow articles I just had a look at... Ta!
There's a lot of bollocks written about this. I'm sure someone will be along presently to spill their received wisdom and call me an idiot.

But understanding air flow is not the same skill set as knowing about computers.
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Old 25-06-2013, 12:31
Alan F
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Ideally you need intakes at the front of the case, near the base, and outlets, with fans, at the rear near the top. Then cold air will be drawn into the case across the electronics and expelled at the rear along with the heat.

Unless you live in particularly filthy conditions do not bother with air filters. They cause more problems than they are worth. A 6 monthly clean and brush out should be fine.

When adding additional fans consider carefully the position of them so that they help the airflow, bottom front to top rear, rather than try to go against it.

Remember what flagpole says about airflow. If you have 2 x 40 cfm fans extracting you have 80 cfm through the case. If one is intake and the other is extract you have only 40 cfm cooling.

Internal fans are used to cool specific hot spots and do not contribute to the overall case heat removal.
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Old 25-06-2013, 12:37
flagpole
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I'm not used to people agreeing with me on this.
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Old 25-06-2013, 12:41
mred2000
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fitting fans is pretty simple. what is your motherboard?
It's a Gigabyte Z68AP-D3, got the PC from Scan in late 2011.

The case fan that's already installed is at the lower front...
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Old 25-06-2013, 13:03
DeelyBopper
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I had far too much time on my hands one summer. As computer noise is a bit of a bugbear of mine (I've turned it into a hobby really to get things at levels I'm happy with). I read up on as much as I could about fans, airflow, intakes, outtakes, positive vs negative flow, blah blah.

I decided to try every possible config (which was a rather protracted and ended up being extremely tedious, but I finish what I start).

My conclusion is pretty much as Flagpole says, there is a lot theory out there and some crap too.

My experience suggests that there is no substitute from trying out your own configs and measuring your temps.

I also used the same set up in different units and got varying results. I concluded each case, fan config needs to be optimised. What will work in one case might not garner the same results in another.

I would add a fan. Measure temp. Move fan to different location. Measure temp. Add additional fan. Measure temp. Reverse the fan. Measure temp. With 7 case fans the permutations get a bit long winded. I found using 7 was overkill.

I just wanted an acceptable cooling solution with the minimum of noise.
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Old 25-06-2013, 13:35
mred2000
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Just had a look through the case window (bloomin' useful that thing) and both my 3 and 4-pin sys_fan connections are unused. Guessing the front case fan is the one going into the power_fan socket...

(it's also a lot dustier in there than the last time I remember looking... hehem... oops...)
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Old 25-06-2013, 13:36
flagpole
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It's a Gigabyte Z68AP-D3, got the PC from Scan in late 2011.

The case fan that's already installed is at the lower front...
I was just looking at how many system fan headers the board has. there are two. a 3 pin and a 4 pin.

not sure what is best to do after that.
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Old 25-06-2013, 13:45
mred2000
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I was just looking at how many system fan headers the board has. there are two. a 3 pin and a 4 pin.

not sure what is best to do after that.
Well, seeing as the existing case fan appears to be going into the pwr_fan header, and after what's been said here, I'm currently thinking of getting one intake fan (for now) which will use the 3-pin sys_fan header and I'll slap it on the side intake slot...


OR... should I get a fan controller and run the fans through that
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Old 25-06-2013, 13:50
flagpole
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i think you can get a bit carried away.
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Old 25-06-2013, 13:55
mred2000
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i think you can get a bit carried away.
True, I'll stick with a Noctua NF-S12A for now and see how I get on

Ta for all the help up to now everyone!
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Old 25-06-2013, 18:02
Smiley433
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You say the CPU temp rises to 50 degrees under load (which flagpole says isn't of concern and I'd tend to agree with) but you say nothing about the fan speed at that time.

If they are working hard then yes adding another fan or two might help. But if they're running at a low/moderate speed then is additional cooling really necessary?
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Old 25-06-2013, 18:26
mred2000
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You say the CPU temp rises to 50 degrees under load (which flagpole says isn't of concern and I'd tend to agree with) but you say nothing about the fan speed at that time.

If they are working hard then yes adding another fan or two might help. But if they're running at a low/moderate speed then is additional cooling really necessary?
Well, I said it jumps into the 50's, it's actually around 55-58, and yep the current fans go into overdrive when this happens too.
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Old 25-06-2013, 19:55
Smiley433
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Ok, if the fans are speeding up then they obviously need to. But first I'd have a go at cleaning out the inside on the case (heatsink, vents, etc) and redoing the thermal compound between CPU and heatsink - I tend to do this once a year and it really helps bring down the fan activity.
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Old 27-06-2013, 12:19
Mr Dos
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As has been noted more fans = more dust inside. This can cause major problems when it clogs the cpu heat sink fins. I've seen customer's pcs fail to boot due to excess cpu temperature cause by dust and fluff in the heatsink. I'd recommend everyone (not just those with multiple fans) take the side off their computer to check for dust every so often.

The best way to clean it is a can of compressed air - about 3 quid from Amazon, eBay etc.
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Old 27-06-2013, 12:25
flagpole
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Ok, if the fans are speeding up then they obviously need to. But first I'd have a go at cleaning out the inside on the case (heatsink, vents, etc) and redoing the thermal compound between CPU and heatsink - I tend to do this once a year and it really helps bring down the fan activity.
I would stay away from redoing the thermal compound myself. it's very easy to do badly.

I have not hear anything to suggest there is any need.
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Old 27-06-2013, 12:53
mred2000
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I would stay away from redoing the thermal compound myself. it's very easy to do badly.

I have not hear anything to suggest there is any need.
Yeah, I was going to stay clear of that, to be honest...

I've bagged some compressed air, to be on the safe side, and I think the fan is currently stuck in the sorting office coz I missed the post yesterday. When I next have a spare half hour or so I'll open the machine up, give it a bit of a clean, fit the fan and see how I get on...
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Old 27-06-2013, 14:17
Smiley433
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I would stay away from redoing the thermal compound myself. it's very easy to do badly.

I have not hear anything to suggest there is any need.
Fair enough, but a correct clean and re-application of some thermal compound could be beneficial as I have discovered.
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Old 27-06-2013, 14:48
Helmut10
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Temps around 50C or 58C are nothing to worry about, only if you get 80C+ should you definately worry.

You can add what you like to your box it will make very little difference to GPU core temperatures, too remote from where it's needed.

It may move hot air out of the box better.

As Smiley433 says the first link is the chip to heatsink thermal resistance. Then dust on heatsink then the fan on that heatsink etc Dealing will all the series thermal resistances to reduce them is better than just one small part later on which would be case fans.

Would you cool a car engine by putting a fan in the roof...
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Old 27-06-2013, 15:17
flagpole
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Temps around 50C or 58C are nothing to worry about, only if you get 80C+ should you definately worry.

You can add what you like to your box it will make very little difference to GPU core temperatures, too remote from where it's needed.

It may move hot air out of the box better.

As Smiley433 says the first link is the chip to heatsink thermal resistance. Then dust on heatsink then the fan on that heatsink etc Dealing will all the series thermal resistances to reduce them is better than just one small part later on which would be case fans.

Would you cool a car engine by putting a fan in the roof...
what on earth does that mean?
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Old 27-06-2013, 15:18
flagpole
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Yeah, I was going to stay clear of that, to be honest...

I've bagged some compressed air, to be on the safe side, and I think the fan is currently stuck in the sorting office coz I missed the post yesterday. When I next have a spare half hour or so I'll open the machine up, give it a bit of a clean, fit the fan and see how I get on...
what cpu and gpu is it btw?
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Old 27-06-2013, 15:22
mred2000
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what on earth does that mean?
Glad I'm not the only one who thought that...

what cpu and gpu is it btw?
CPU is Core i5 2500K, GPU is a GTX 560 Ti.
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