What do they know? They seem to think the flash on the iPhone 5 is at least as good as the Xenon flash on the Lumia 1020. Presumably they are a bunch of Apple fanboy halfwits who know nothing?
Best camera on phone
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jeeez get over the fanboi nonsense. all 35 5s crictic reviews must be apple fanbois too then
http://www.engadget.com/products/apple/iphone/5s/
http://www.engadget.com/products/nokia/lumia/1020/
http://www.engadget.com/products/apple/iphone/5s/
http://www.engadget.com/products/nokia/lumia/1020/
Your irony detector might be playing up.... 
That was mostly in reference to a recent discussion in another thread where it was made clear to me in no uncertain terms that the flash on my iPhone 5S could not possibly be as good as a Xenon flash.
Although, to be fair, its difficult to tell around here sometimes.
That was mostly in reference to a recent discussion in another thread where it was made clear to me in no uncertain terms that the flash on my iPhone 5S could not possibly be as good as a Xenon flash.
Although, to be fair, its difficult to tell around here sometimes.
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“Your irony detector might be playing up....
That was mostly in reference to a recent discussion in another thread where it was made clear to me in no uncertain terms that the flash on my iPhone 5S could not possibly be as good as a Xenon flash.
Although, to be fair, its difficult to tell around here sometimes.”
“Your irony detector might be playing up....
That was mostly in reference to a recent discussion in another thread where it was made clear to me in no uncertain terms that the flash on my iPhone 5S could not possibly be as good as a Xenon flash.
Although, to be fair, its difficult to tell around here sometimes.
”
oh ok! sorry didn't realise you were referring to another thread etc. anyway 93/100 for the 5s is a pretty fine score for a humpless device
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“Your irony detector might be playing up....
That was mostly in reference to a recent discussion in another thread where it was made clear to me in no uncertain terms that the flash on my iPhone 5S could not possibly be as good as a Xenon flash.
Although, to be fair, its difficult to tell around here sometimes.”
“Your irony detector might be playing up....
That was mostly in reference to a recent discussion in another thread where it was made clear to me in no uncertain terms that the flash on my iPhone 5S could not possibly be as good as a Xenon flash.
Although, to be fair, its difficult to tell around here sometimes.
”
So you think the dual led flash is on a par or possibly better than the xenon?
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“What do they know? They seem to think the flash on the iPhone 5 is at least as good as the Xenon flash on the Lumia 1020. Presumably they are a bunch of Apple fanboy halfwits who know nothing?”
“What do they know? They seem to think the flash on the iPhone 5 is at least as good as the Xenon flash on the Lumia 1020. Presumably they are a bunch of Apple fanboy halfwits who know nothing?”
One day led flash may be as good as xenon. But that day is not today.
There's a key difference. It's not just the brightness. It's about freezing motion by duration.
Originally Posted by flagpole:
“One day led flash may be as good as xenon. But that day is not today.
There's a key difference. It's not just the brightness. It's about freezing motion by duration.”
“One day led flash may be as good as xenon. But that day is not today.
There's a key difference. It's not just the brightness. It's about freezing motion by duration.”
Xenon flash pictures on compacts are generally appalling and are only good for snapshots. It's the quality of light which isn't good. I just find any picture taken with a xenon flash direct to subject to be horrible.
The multi coloured led on the iPhone 5s is a very interesting idea. perhaps to get around this issue.
Any pro using flash would have to use some form of bounce and a number of techniques to make the photo look realistic.
I can't think of a single situation in which I would prefer to use an LED flash....
Ohhh hang on, I can and that's for using my phone as a torch.
Luckily for me, the 1020 has both a xenon and led flashes. I can freeze motion and find things in the dark.
Excelsior!
Ohhh hang on, I can and that's for using my phone as a torch.
Luckily for me, the 1020 has both a xenon and led flashes. I can freeze motion and find things in the dark.
Excelsior!
Originally Posted by Nick2008:
“So you think the dual led flash is on a par or possibly better than the xenon?”
“So you think the dual led flash is on a par or possibly better than the xenon?”
Originally Posted by flagpole:
“One day led flash may be as good as xenon. But that day is not today.
There's a key difference. It's not just the brightness. It's about freezing motion by duration.”
“One day led flash may be as good as xenon. But that day is not today.
There's a key difference. It's not just the brightness. It's about freezing motion by duration.”
Based on experience, with still shots at least, the 5S flash gives great results.
From that, plus what I've read and comparison shots I've seen, there's very little in it.
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“Based on experience, with still shots at least, the 5S flash gives great results.
From that, plus what I've read and comparison shots I've seen, there's very little in it.”
“Based on experience, with still shots at least, the 5S flash gives great results.
From that, plus what I've read and comparison shots I've seen, there's very little in it.”
Still shots of objects very close to the camera, and by that I mean less than a metre or do you mean still shots where the subject is further away?
What if you need to capture a moving subject in low light?
Originally Posted by Nick2008:
“I can't think of a single situation in which I would prefer to use an LED flash....
Ohhh hang on, I can and that's for using my phone as a torch.
Luckily for me, the 1020 has both a xenon and led flashes. I can freeze motion and find things in the dark.
Excelsior!”
“I can't think of a single situation in which I would prefer to use an LED flash....
Ohhh hang on, I can and that's for using my phone as a torch.
Luckily for me, the 1020 has both a xenon and led flashes. I can freeze motion and find things in the dark.
Excelsior!”
Win!.
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“Your irony detector might be playing up....
That was mostly in reference to a recent discussion in another thread where it was made clear to me in no uncertain terms that the flash on my iPhone 5S could not possibly be as good as a Xenon flash.”
“Your irony detector might be playing up....
That was mostly in reference to a recent discussion in another thread where it was made clear to me in no uncertain terms that the flash on my iPhone 5S could not possibly be as good as a Xenon flash.”
Thats because LEDs aren't as good for photography as xenons. Not just opinion, at the moment that is a well documented fact. Name one DSLR that has an LED flash. Or for that matter, can you point me to any compact camera that has an LED primary flash? Of course you can't ....
Just like you won't be able to point me to any mobile with a Xenon flash as good as one found on a full size DSLR.
The point with the 5S is that the new flash, despite being LED can, in most use scenarios, compare favourably to Xenon flashes in other mobile phones.
So I'm not sure why you are talking about DSLRs, unless you think that comparing apples with oranges is at all helpful.
The point with the 5S is that the new flash, despite being LED can, in most use scenarios, compare favourably to Xenon flashes in other mobile phones.
So I'm not sure why you are talking about DSLRs, unless you think that comparing apples with oranges is at all helpful.
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“Just like you won't be able to point me to any mobile with a Xenon flash as good as one found on a full size DSLR.
The point with the 5S is that the new flash, despite being LED can, in most use scenarios, compare favourably to Xenon flashes in other mobile phones.
So I'm not sure why you are talking about DSLRs, unless you think that comparing apples with oranges is at all helpful.”
“Just like you won't be able to point me to any mobile with a Xenon flash as good as one found on a full size DSLR.
The point with the 5S is that the new flash, despite being LED can, in most use scenarios, compare favourably to Xenon flashes in other mobile phones.
So I'm not sure why you are talking about DSLRs, unless you think that comparing apples with oranges is at all helpful.”
You truly don't get it, do you? LED is not used in any dedicated cameras as it isn't good enough. Its only used in mobiles as it takes less space .... and it really isn't as good as xenon.
The 808, 1020 or N8 are proven to be leagues ahead in ability and range over what is in any other LED equipped device?
No, the 5S LED only compares favourably against most (not all) LED "flashes".
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“Just like you won't be able to point me to any mobile with a Xenon flash as good as one found on a full size DSLR.
The point with the 5S is that the new flash, despite being LED can, in most use scenarios, compare favourably to Xenon flashes in other mobile phones.
So I'm not sure why you are talking about DSLRs, unless you think that comparing apples with oranges is at all helpful.”
“Just like you won't be able to point me to any mobile with a Xenon flash as good as one found on a full size DSLR.
The point with the 5S is that the new flash, despite being LED can, in most use scenarios, compare favourably to Xenon flashes in other mobile phones.
So I'm not sure why you are talking about DSLRs, unless you think that comparing apples with oranges is at all helpful.”
Absolute bollocks.
If you're taking a photo of a fruit bowl about 2 feet away in a room which has some light, then the led flash from the iPhone 5 may give you an acceptable result. The result will depend greatly on other factors such as hand movement though. Yet another area in where the 1020 is king with OIS. I've taken handheld photos with slow shutter speeds of upto 2 seconds and the end result has been ok.
Anyway, I digress...
Not all people want to take photos of stationary objects which are very close to the lens. What if you want to take photos or people dancing, running water or other things moving in..all in very low light?
In these situations the iPhone 5 simply cannot compete to any acceptable level. The movement is blurred and ultimately as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“Just like you won't be able to point me to any mobile with a Xenon flash as good as one found on a full size DSLR.
The point with the 5S is that the new flash, despite being LED can, in most use scenarios, compare favourably to Xenon flashes in other mobile phones.
So I'm not sure why you are talking about DSLRs, unless you think that comparing apples with oranges is at all helpful.”
“Just like you won't be able to point me to any mobile with a Xenon flash as good as one found on a full size DSLR.
The point with the 5S is that the new flash, despite being LED can, in most use scenarios, compare favourably to Xenon flashes in other mobile phones.
So I'm not sure why you are talking about DSLRs, unless you think that comparing apples with oranges is at all helpful.”
the led flash on the 5s does not compare favourably to the xenon flash on anything.
it's not just about the overall luminescence. in that area LED is growing but is still about x000 times less than xenon.
it's the duration. xenon flashes last typically 50 micro seconds (1/20,000). the shortest they can get led is around 100miliseconds (1/10)
Originally Posted by clonmult:
“You truly don't get it, do you? LED is not used in any dedicated cameras as it isn't good enough. Its only used in mobiles as it takes less space .... and it really isn't as good as xenon.
The 808, 1020 or N8 are proven to be leagues ahead in ability and range over what is in any other LED equipped device?
No, the 5S LED only compares favourably against most (not all) LED "flashes".”
“You truly don't get it, do you? LED is not used in any dedicated cameras as it isn't good enough. Its only used in mobiles as it takes less space .... and it really isn't as good as xenon.
The 808, 1020 or N8 are proven to be leagues ahead in ability and range over what is in any other LED equipped device?
No, the 5S LED only compares favourably against most (not all) LED "flashes".”
Dedicated cameras is a red herring because we're not talking about dedicated cameras. I'd be surprised if Xenon flashes mobile phones were as good as ones in DSLR cameras.
And that's just it - in several independent reviews, like the ones linked to in this thread, seem to agree that the 5S flash does compare favourably, eg to the 1020.
Do they "just not get it either", despite their apparent credentials?
Originally Posted by Nick2008:
“Absolute bollocks.
If you're taking a photo of a fruit bowl about 2 feet away in a room which has some light, then the led flash from the iPhone 5 may give you an acceptable result. The result will depend greatly on other factors such as hand movement though. Yet another area in where the 1020 is king with OIS. I've taken handheld photos with slow shutter speeds of upto 2 seconds and the end result has been ok.
Anyway, I digress...
Not all people want to take photos of stationary objects which are very close to the lens. What if you want to take photos or people dancing, running water or other things moving in..all in very low light?
In these situations the iPhone 5 simply cannot compete to any acceptable level. The movement is blurred and ultimately as useful as a chocolate teapot.”
“Absolute bollocks.
If you're taking a photo of a fruit bowl about 2 feet away in a room which has some light, then the led flash from the iPhone 5 may give you an acceptable result. The result will depend greatly on other factors such as hand movement though. Yet another area in where the 1020 is king with OIS. I've taken handheld photos with slow shutter speeds of upto 2 seconds and the end result has been ok.
Anyway, I digress...
Not all people want to take photos of stationary objects which are very close to the lens. What if you want to take photos or people dancing, running water or other things moving in..all in very low light?
In these situations the iPhone 5 simply cannot compete to any acceptable level. The movement is blurred and ultimately as useful as a chocolate teapot.”
Originally Posted by flagpole:
“the led flash on the 5s does not compare favourably to the xenon flash on anything.
it's not just about the overall luminescence. in that area LED is growing but is still about x000 times less than xenon.
it's the duration. xenon flashes last typically 50 micro seconds (1/20,000). the shortest they can get led is around 100miliseconds (1/10)”
“the led flash on the 5s does not compare favourably to the xenon flash on anything.
it's not just about the overall luminescence. in that area LED is growing but is still about x000 times less than xenon.
it's the duration. xenon flashes last typically 50 micro seconds (1/20,000). the shortest they can get led is around 100miliseconds (1/10)”
So should these guys know what they're talking about?
I've already said that this is primarily about static shots at close to medium range - but they are most likely the majority of shots taken with mobile phones.
If you're after quality shots of running water, from a distance or in low light, you're unlikely to be using your mobile.
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“So should these guys know what they're talking about?
I've already said that this is primarily about static shots at close to medium range - but they are most likely the majority of shots taken with mobile phones.
If you're after quality shots of running water, from a distance or in low light, you're unlikely to be using your mobile.”
“So should these guys know what they're talking about?
I've already said that this is primarily about static shots at close to medium range - but they are most likely the majority of shots taken with mobile phones.
If you're after quality shots of running water, from a distance or in low light, you're unlikely to be using your mobile.”
Yes nobody ever used their phone to take pictures of their mates on a night out. I see loads of people in bars photographing bowls of fruit at close to medium range though.
Do you actually believe the things you say?
"Pictures of their mates on a night out" is pretty much covered by "static shots at close to medium range". I don't know why you're talking about bowls of fruit, other than to be overly literal for no apparent reason.
So should these guys know what they're taking about or not?
So should these guys know what they're taking about or not?
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“"Pictures of their mates on a night out" is pretty much covered by "static shots at close to medium range". I don't know why you're talking about bowls of fruit, other than to be overly literal for no apparent reason.
So should these guys know what they're taking about or not?”
“"Pictures of their mates on a night out" is pretty much covered by "static shots at close to medium range". I don't know why you're talking about bowls of fruit, other than to be overly literal for no apparent reason.
So should these guys know what they're taking about or not?”
No, they don't. Their shots are purely lab based. ie. shots of fruit bowls. Which. Don't. Move. Unless its triffid like fruits, in which case ... RUN!
In the real world, where people do radical things like "move", a xenon flash can actually freeze the motion. So you don't get a blurry mess of people on the dance floor.
LED is okay for closer work where you can get people to stay still, but that isn't always practical.
Sure, there are occasions where you don't want the flash to freeze motion and want the movement in shot - switch off the flash, turn up the ISO and shoot. Which is where the 920/925/928/1020 have a gigantic advantage over devices like the iPhone (or SGS, 808, Z1, etc.) as they actually have working image stabilisation.
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“"Pictures of their mates on a night out" is pretty much covered by "static shots at close to medium range"”
“"Pictures of their mates on a night out" is pretty much covered by "static shots at close to medium range"”
I can't tell if you are serious or not?
Originally Posted by calico_pie:
“So should these guys know what they're talking about?
I've already said that this is primarily about static shots at close to medium range - but they are most likely the majority of shots taken with mobile phones.
If you're after quality shots of running water, from a distance or in low light, you're unlikely to be using your mobile.”
“So should these guys know what they're talking about?
I've already said that this is primarily about static shots at close to medium range - but they are most likely the majority of shots taken with mobile phones.
If you're after quality shots of running water, from a distance or in low light, you're unlikely to be using your mobile.”
Yes, those guys should know what they're talking about but their rating of the 1020 is flawed in a few areas.
Here's what the iPhone 5s LED flash does in low light:
http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/fil...60~2532316.jpg
This is the xenon flash from the 808:
http://3.static.img-dpreview.com/fil...60~2532317.jpg
There really is no comparison. Credits to vlad0 for the images.
If you were photographing your mates on a night out like that, would you ask the dj to stop playing music and get everyone to stay still? It is impossible to freeze the motion with LED so unless you like blurry photos and consider them to be better than photos where the subjects are blur free, distinguishable and free from noise, that would explain your insistence that the LEDs are better.
As for you comments on capturing running water, again, you're wrong. I've used my 1020 to take stunning photographs using the xenon flash to freeze motion with a very fast shutter speed.
As the saying goes, the best camera is the one you have with you and having the 1020 with me all the time means I'm able to capture outstanding shots in various different settings and environments and get excellent results.
The iPhone 5 is a better phone...no doubt about that. The processor speed and power alone blows the competitors away, it's got an amazing app/games ecosystem, multipath tcp is another great feature for a smartphone even if it's limited to Siri at the moment (I think). It just cannot beat the 1020 in the camera and video department.
Originally Posted by Nick2008:
“
Here's what the iPhone 5s LED flash does in low light:
http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/fil...60~2532316.jpg
This is the xenon flash from the 808:
http://3.static.img-dpreview.com/fil...60~2532317.jpg”
“
Here's what the iPhone 5s LED flash does in low light:
http://2.static.img-dpreview.com/fil...60~2532316.jpg
This is the xenon flash from the 808:
http://3.static.img-dpreview.com/fil...60~2532317.jpg”
I think these 2 pictures show everything you need to know about LED vs Xenon flashes Calico Pie - and it's even the sort of shot you would expect to be done on a camera phone.
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