Also...just a little bit of digging shows that the DxO Mark reviewer Kevin Carter and the word bias have been used a few times before.

I'm not a member of the site but do they publish the photos that each camera took so the readers can come to their own conclusions?

There's also plenty of suggestion that DxO Mark are bias towards manufacturers of DSLRs.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's always best to try and have a play around with any phones/cameras before you buy. I tend to pop into my local CPW or Phones4U to have a good mess around with a phone even if I'm not planning to purchase it from them

Online reviews are sometimes extremely helpful but unfortunately, so many websites have their own agendas for and against certain products and brands.

I don't know how anybody can argue that LED is anywhere near as good as Xenon flash?

I've had a Xenon flash on one of my old Nokias years ago and a LED flash has come nowhere near it (not on my HTC HD2 or Galaxy S3).

They are just pants!

Both are utterly appalling pictures

people will argue up is down if it suits the iPhone

not sure if they are part of the same group but dxo are mentioned here at the end of the review

http://connect.dpreview.com/post/751...-camera-review

I just personally don't like the harsh unatural looking light in a pic taken with a xenon flash. On the rare occasion I use the Xenon flash from my RX100 I'll always try and bounce it if the circumstances allow which gives a much better result. Can also be used as fill flash.

The main benefit for the night out type of snapshot is the freezing action so much easier to get a sharp image from a Xenon unit. You essentially get an ultra short burst of very strong light.

Why aren't they on mobile phones?

Well you need a big capacitor so they won't fit in todays slimline phone cases and the other issue is they have a much bigger battery drain than LED's.

I disagree.

The iPhone shot is absolutely dreadful.

The 808 shot is more than passable.

Cheers...I don't think DP Review and DxO Mark are the same.

The 808 is technically a lot better but still a horrible photo as the harsh direct xenon light makes it look totally unnatural, for example the back wall in reality has some sort of coloured light show which is obliterated by the flash.

The iPhone is outside of the operating parameters here and obviously has got severe camera shake.

Also someone has just randomly pointed and shot so the aesthetic quality of the photo is rubbish too.

Granted the aesthetic quality of the photo is poor but it's just a comparison shot to test each phone in the same conditions. It wasn't intended to win photography awards.

That isn't severe camera shake on the iPhone..that is it's inability to freeze motion.

The 808 image may not be perfect but if I was on a night out and had images like that to look back on instead of the blurry mess from the iPhone, I wouldn't be too disappointed.

the camera shake is only noticeable with the iPhone because of the led flash. the same shake with a xenon flash would not have blurred the image.

it's all well and good saying the iPhone is outside the operating parameters but that is what is at issue. it can't take pictures in those conditions.

It's each to their own really.

Obviously the xenon flash camera shake is irrelevant as it produces a very short burst of light and freezes the action. All the camera has to do is sync the shutter with the flash.

Personally I prefer not to use flash if at all possible as I hate the unnatural look like that example picture.

In that scene to be able to do with no flash you would probably need a DSLR with a very fast lens and high iso capability, but that picture would be 1 million times better.

If they can somehow shrink a xenon flash then you may be seeing them in more smartphones if that's your bag.

My comment on the iPhone 5s was I thought the dual colour led was an interesting idea as it is supposed to give a natural look especially for flesh tones, but clearly it's only going to work if the subjects are stationary and in the correct range of the 'flash'

You're missing the point of being able to capture reasonable shots in varying conditions using a smartphone.

Who goes clubbing with a dslr?

I do...

There's always one isn't there

Someone has to take decent photographs cause clearly all the cameraphone users aren't up to the job :P

And I've never argued that it could - just that in the most typical case uses for most people, i.e. using a flash to illuminate a static scene in the close to mid distance, it does very well.

And yes - that includes people and is not limited to fruit bowls.

Is a static shot the most common type of shot? Is a person static? Most people I know tend to move and movement causes blurring if the flash is not quick enough.

I suppose it depends what you want to capture. Most people stand still for photos. But I agree that if you want to freeze movement, capture dancing etc, or even if people accidentally move a bit when a photo is being taken, an LED flash isn't going to cut it.

Admittedly not all smartphone pictures are taken by clubbers and not all pictures are with flash.

But of all the ones I've tried to take I've been unable to get either the picture or the camera to stay still long enough to avoid blur using an LED flash.

Were not talking high end cameras here - we are talking mobile phones and the difference between a blurry shot and one that you can make out what it is in the picture.

I would put up with a couple of millimeters in a phone to add a Xenon flash (even better still a slightly bigger CCD). .

Most people tend to be still enough for a photo (that they know is being taken at least). I would have thought those sorts of posed photos are more common than the sorts of random shots of nothing much in particular posted earlier.

You never get everybody to be totally still even if they know a photo is being taken. Also have you heard of such a thing as children?

You also have to take into account camera shake as in dark conditions it can take a second or so whilst it's taking the photo.

No - what are children? Never heard of them.

You say you never get people to be still enough - are you saying then that it is not possible for the iPhone 5S to take a photo of people using the flash which will not be blurred?