[1andrew1]

"Customers express outrage after they are told they must move to Infinity service in order to keep watching rival's channels"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013...-tv-sky-sports

You would think BT would offer such customers an Infinity upgrade for a year at no extra cost. Issues like this will not help improve the platform's complaint rate.

[MJH1962]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

"Customers express outrage after they are told they must move to Infinity service in order to keep watching rival's channels"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013...-tv-sky-sports

You would think BT would offer such customers an Infinity upgrade for a year at no extra cost. Issues like this will not help improve the platform's complaint rate.

I don't see why. Current subscribers are being given BT sport for free in place of the paid for Sky Sports. It is perfectly understandable why BT wishes to broadcast its own new channels on DTT and let's face it, all BT's channels will soon be IPTV only anyway. BT is making no bones about this all being about getting customers signed up to Infinity (or broadband when Infinity not available).

[infinidim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJH1962

I don't see why. Current subscribers are being given BT sport for free in place of the paid for Sky Sports. It is perfectly understandable why BT wishes to broadcast its own new channels on DTT and let's face it, all BT's channels will soon be IPTV only anyway. BT is making no bones about this all being about getting customers signed up to Infinity (or broadband when Infinity not available).

I do tend to agree with most of what you have said. The trouble is that BT is making such a mess of getting new customers added and also supporting existing customers that I am sure that a good few of the existing customers might walk.

Infinidim

[1andrew1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJH1962

I don't see why. Current subscribers are being given BT sport for free in place of the paid for Sky Sports. It is perfectly understandable why BT wishes to broadcast its own new channels on DTT and let's face it, all BT's channels will soon be IPTV only anyway. BT is making no bones about this all being about getting customers signed up to Infinity (or broadband when Infinity not available).

There would be minimal cost to BT to do this and when it's launching its new channels the last thing it needs is bad publicity, however unwarranted you may believe it to be.

[VisionMan1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

There would be minimal cost to BT to do this and when it's launching its new channels the last thing it needs is bad publicity, however unwarranted you may believe it to be.

The article posted isn't actually news. BT Vision's Sky Sports customers have known about these changes for months. Can't make an omelette... and all that.

And, based on the figures the article quoted, only half of the 30k SS users don't have Infinity (how they know that I don't know). Thats only 2%(ish) of BTV's overall user base. And what is unknown is of that 2%, how many have the option of Infinity and how many will be offered SS over ADSL? So overall the effects will be minimal.

The article is, imo, just outdated scaremongering.

[Timbionline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VisionMan1

The article posted isn't actually news. BT Vision's Sky Sports customers have known about these changes for months. Can't make an omelette... and all that.

And, based on the figures the article quoted, only half of the 30k SS users don't have Infinity (how they know that I don't know). Thats only 2%(ish) of BTV's overall user base. And what is unknown is of that 2%, how many have the option of Infinity and how many will be offered SS over ADSL? So overall the effects will be minimal.

The article is, imo, just outdated scaremongering.

So basically, you have 15k SS subscribers not on infinity. and assuming that 60% of the population can get infinity (from BTs latest figures) that leaves around 5 thousand customers approx. yes it can be said that its bad for them but in the bigger schemes of it, they are replacing a "premium product" with their own "premium product"

furthermore, with some of these customer are getting a replacement product via "broadband channels" BT have tried to help a minority of customers.

---

Last edited by Timbionline : 28-06-2013 at 00:02. Reason: pressed the button too quickly!

[Fozzie55]

I am one of them that has lost Sky Sports

I would jump at the chance to have Infinity, alas I must be in the 40% that can't get it. My exchange is enabled but I am the furthest away from it.

To be fair I have had a good run, £18.75 a month for Sky Sports 1 & 2 and ESPN thrown in free for nearly 2 years.

I only had it for Premiership Football, so I will get what ESPN had, 40 odd games, and they are showing Steven Gerrards testimonial as first live game.

If Infinity eventually reaches me it will be great as my broadband speed sucks. I am 30 seconds from a major junction of the M6 not out in the middle of knowhere!

[lamby]

I am considering getting BT when i move house, but i am not in an Infinity area yet. The guy on the phone said they want to phase out vision boxes in favour of YouView.

[infinidim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamby

I am considering getting BT when i move house, but i am not in an Infinity area yet. The guy on the phone said they want to phase out vision boxes in favour of YouView.

Was it a BT employee who told you that they want to phase out vision boxes in favour of YouView?

Infinidim

[VisionMan1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinidim

Was it a BT employee who told you that they want to phase out vision boxes in favour of YouView?

Infinidim

Thats true, actually. Though the timeframe is unknown.

[VisionMan1]

BT have finally commented on the Sky Sports over ADSL facility and they do have every intention of going with fibre only.

Quote:

Hi Everyone,

We have a few threads running on the community with reference to some of our customers unfortunately losing access to Sky sports as they reside in a non-infinity area. We would like to clarify a few things with regards to the roll out of the copper service as some customers are confused as to why they are not able to receive the channels when other customers with a lesser or similar service can.

The majority of BT’s Sky Sports customers will be able to watch the channels over Infinity or streamed over their copper broadband. However, this streaming technology only works for customers who have the right technology enabled at their exchange. It is not just based on line speeds but many other factors. There currently is no roll out plan for the copper streaming technology so we are afraid it’s not something we will be looking to provide after this initial switch over.

Only customers who met the requirements earlier this year will be able to get BT Sport and Sky Sports streamed over their copper broadband. If you're one of those customers, you'll have already received an email or a letter in the post. If you have not received a letter we are sorry but you will not be eligible for this type of streaming.

We are afraid that for customers who have had the service but will no longer be able to receive it, this also means that with the end of your premium channels subscription you will also lose your premium channel recordings, this is because copyright and data protection laws protect all your recordings, so unfortunately when your subscription ends you can’t continue to access your recordings from these channels

We have an ambitious roll-out program for Infinity broadband, and are on track to have Infinity available to 19 million premises by Spring 2014. In the meantime, as a Vision+ customer in a copper-only area, you'll be able to get BT Sport 1 and BT Sport 2 over your TV aerial (viewing card required). As a BT broadband customer, you’ll also be able to watch BT Sport free on the BT Sport app or at btsport.com.

We are very sorry if you are affected with this change.

Cheers
Sean
BTCare Community Manager

[Colin_London]

The BT TV Connect service over ADSL2+ is only available in exchanges where multicast routers have been installed. Generally this has only been done in FTTC enabled exchanges (why would they do otherwise after all!).

So whilst it does mean that people whose cabinet hasn't been converted to fibre (or, for whatever reason, don't want Infinity) can get the channels via ADSL2+ if their speed is over 5.5Mbps, it isn't going to help people who are connected to an exchange that doesn't have any FTTC.

[infinidim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin_London

The BT TV Connect service over ADSL2+ is only available in exchanges where multicast routers have been installed. Generally this has only been done in FTTC enabled exchanges (why would they do otherwise after all!).

So whilst it does mean that people whose cabinet hasn't been converted to fibre (or, for whatever reason, don't want Infinity) can get the channels via ADSL2+ if their speed is over 5.5Mbps, it isn't going to help people who are connected to an exchange that doesn't have any FTTC.

Colin_London, this isn't quite true " exchanges where multicast routers have been installed ". The copper service has to be connected to a MSAN as the RP for the multicast service is actually within the 21CN core. Basically the copper solutions is using the Openreach "Shared Metallic Path Facility".

Infinidim

[SimonBlackham]

We have ESPN and Sky Sports 1&2 on the Rowridge transmitter in an area with approx. 6.5mbps Broadband.

ESPN has stopped (BT says until 1st Aug)***
Sky Sports 1 is received on channel 41 seamlessly via broadband
Sky Sports 2 has been replaced by Sky Sports Ashes on channel 42 seamlessly via Broadband
BT Sport, BT Sport1 and BT Sport2 are available (Enrypted) via Freeview on channels 57, 58 an 59 as others would have noticed...
but
BT Sport1 is streamed on 943 and BT Sport2 is streamed on 944

There are other streamed channels (for which we get a connection error)..
851 BBC ONE HD
852 BBC TWO HD
853 ITV HD
854 Channel 4HD
855 GOLD
856 Comedy Central
857 Watch
858 Universal
859 FOX
860 alibi
861 syfy
862 MTV
863 E!

875 TLC
885 Discovery
886 History
887 Crime
888 Nat Geo
889 Nat Geo Wild
890 Animal Planet

937 Eurosport 1
938 Eurosport 2

942 Info1 - "No signal found, please check your TV aerial"
943 BT Sport 1 - active stream
944 BT Sport 2 - active stream
945 BT Sport 1 HD
946 BT Sport 2 HD
947 Info2 - "No signal found, please check your TV aerial"
... there is a small "b TV" at top centre of the info strap for streamed channels

*** ESPN has appeared again as a seamless broadband stream on 34

I apologise if this info is elsewhere - but the posters in this thread seem to be saying that we are to lose ESPN and Sky if we do not have Infinity - and this shows it is not true.

PS the connection code for broadband that we have is different to that shown for the "unconnected" channels - which one can assume are only available via Infinity.

We are unlikely to get FTTC for some time.
Our exchange may be a satellite exchange to one that has FTTC - but I would then have expected to have the "Infinity" channels available (or is this a false expectation??)

[promo-only]

BT have got nothing to do with ESPN until the change over on August 1st. As it stands, ESPN is still delivered by TUTV.

ESPN themselves have stated that BT Vision 1 & 2 will be carried as a DTT stream but ESPN will not. The only way to receive ESPN will be via the online BT Sport player as it will be streamed only from August 1st.

[SimonBlackham]

Quote:

Originally Posted by promo-only

BT have got nothing to do with ESPN until the change over on August 1st. As it stands, ESPN is still delivered by TUTV.

ESPN themselves have stated that BT Vision 1 & 2 will be carried as a DTT stream but ESPN will not. The only way to receive ESPN will be via the online BT Sport player as it will be streamed only from August 1st.

...how do you explain that I am watching the CONCACAF Gold Cup via streamed broadband on a BT Vbox ?

BTW if you set the "signal strength" flag on the BT Vbox you get "Signal strength is not available for broadband channels" on channels 34, 41, 42 etc

[promo-only]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonBlackham

...how do you explain that I am watching the CONCACAF Gold Cup via streamed broadband on a BT Vbox ?

BTW if you set the "signal strength" flag on the BT Vbox you get "Signal strength is not available for broadband channels" on channels 34, 41, 42 etc

What do you mean how do I explain it? You're getting the error message for the extra channels because if you wanted to view those, the only way to do so is with an Infinity connection.

You're watching sports over your broadband because you're in a non-infinity enabled area and this is the solution BT came up with.

[SimonBlackham]

Quote:

Originally Posted by promo-only

BT have got nothing to do with ESPN until the change over on August 1st. As it stands, ESPN is still delivered by TUTV.
:

I repeat...
...how do you explain that I am watching the CONCACAF Gold Cup via streamed broadband on a BT Vbox ?

ie BT are delivering live ESPN via Broadband as part of their Vision system prior to August 1st.
That is not to say that TUTV has ceased delivering ESPN via DVB ("Freeview") prior to 1st August.

I am NOT on Infinity and the "Signal strength is not available for broadband channels" message just shows that the channels are being delivered via broadband. I would get exactly the same message if I were on Infinity.

The whole point of my post is to demonstrate that what BT says about only being able to get (BT)sports (and ESPN) is via the BT player apps, Sky or BT Infinity - is wrong.

I do not know if the non-infinity BT set-up I have is available in all (non-infinity) areas or to new customers - I can say is that BTs marketing is appearing to alienate existing customers and is turning away possible customers in non-infinity areas.

[SimonBlackham]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fozzie55

I am one of them that has lost Sky Sports

I would jump at the chance to have Infinity, alas I must be in the 40% that can't get it. My exchange is enabled but I am the furthest away from it.

To be fair I have had a good run, £18.75 a month for Sky Sports 1 & 2 and ESPN thrown in free for nearly 2 years.

I only had it for Premiership Football, so I will get what ESPN had, 40 odd games, and they are showing Steven Gerrards testimonial as first live game.

If Infinity eventually reaches me it will be great as my broadband speed sucks. I am 30 seconds from a major junction of the M6 not out in the middle of knowhere!

My posts were addressed at people like you.


BT supplied me out of the blue with a new Broadband Router around 20th July which may have enabled the broadband channels for me - have you got the latest homehub (3.0)?
BT implies that you should receive BT sports, Sky sports and ESPN if you have 400kbps or more bandwidth.

Do you see any of the evidence of the broadband channels on your system - eg Sky sports 1 (channel 41) showing the broadband symbol on the info strap.
If so - go to...
"Help & Settings"
"System Information"
"CA Network Information"
... and click "Force Resynchronisation"

You can look for broadband channels by going to...
"Help & Settings"
"System Information"
"TV Settings"
... and click "Freeview Signal Strength"

This will put a signal strength meter into the Channel Info strap (Info gives more technical info) and broadband channels will have the message about signal strength not being available.


Note that the two info channels have signal strength values but no TSID, ONID or ServiceID - indicating that they are not being broadcast but are in the BT "EPG" info (which comes via broadband)
I wonder if it is the way that BT supress the DVB broadcast of the Sky Sports vestigial channels? - but then they do not do this with the DVB broadcast ESPN ??


Note that currently Sky Sports 2 has been replaced by "Sky Ashes" and if it does not return to be Sky Sports 2 after August 1st we will probably lose most of the Sky Premiership games!

[SimonBlackham]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinidim

Colin_London, this isn't quite true " exchanges where multicast routers have been installed ". The copper service has to be connected to a MSAN as the RP for the multicast service is actually within the 21CN core. Basically the copper solutions is using the Openreach "Shared Metallic Path Facility".

Infinidim

...does this mean that satellite exchanges to those equipped as above will have access via 5m5+bps broadband to the "Extra" channels?

I get a lost connection code [VMC011] for the extra channels
- the standard connection code is [VMC027]

Probably just twigged - VMC011 is the Infinity server solution and VMC027 is the non-infinity server solution - if you are in an infinity area then you cannot get access to the "VMC027" server(s) so you cannot get the slow speed solution?
Does the 5m5+ bps solution only apply to "Infinity" areas?

[iniltous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonBlackham

I repeat...
...how do you explain that I am watching the CONCACAF Gold Cup via streamed broadband on a BT Vbox ?

ie BT are delivering live ESPN via Broadband as part of their Vision system prior to August 1st.
That is not to say that TUTV has ceased delivering ESPN via DVB ("Freeview") prior to 1st August.

I am NOT on Infinity and the "Signal strength is not available for broadband channels" message just shows that the channels are being delivered via broadband. I would get exactly the same message if I were on Infinity.

The whole point of my post is to demonstrate that what BT says about only being able to get (BT)sports (and ESPN) is via the BT player apps, Sky or BT Infinity - is wrong.

I do not know if the non-infinity BT set-up I have is available in all (non-infinity) areas or to new customers - I can say is that BTs marketing is appearing to alienate existing customers and is turning away possible customers in non-infinity areas.

I think BT on an individual customer basis are providing some content, Sky Sports etc over non Infinity connections to BT Vision boxes that have a good enough connection to support them, but won't advertise it generally as it will raise the hopes of people not in infinity areas, who currently get SkySports/ESPN via 'free view' and will not get those channels after 1st Aug, but will get BT Sport 1 and 2 instead

[SimonBlackham]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iniltous

I think BT on an individual customer basis are providing some content, Sky Sports etc over non Infinity connections to BT Vision boxes that have a good enough connection to support them, but won't advertise it generally as it will raise the hopes of people not in infinity areas, who currently get SkySports/ESPN via 'free view' and will not get those channels after 1st Aug, but will get BT Sport 1 and 2 instead

.. it would be interesting to know if the "non-infinity" solution is generally available.
I would say that the marketing problem is how can you tell people that are in an "infinity" area with a bad connection you will lose Sky sports (and ESPN) but those who are non-infinity will retain these channels!

Until I received an email (20th June 2013) I had no idea what they were going to do. The lack of information made it impossible to decide if I should go to YouView when it started - and made me think seriously about going to $ky - how many did?

The email said I would lose ESPN until 1st August - which was pessimistic.

PS Why do the "non-infinity" EPGs include the extra (and HD) channels - designed to piss the customer off even more?

[infinidim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonBlackham

...does this mean that satellite exchanges to those equipped as above will have access via 5m5+bps broadband to the "Extra" channels?

I get a lost connection code [VMC011] for the extra channels
- the standard connection code is [VMC027]

Probably just twigged - VMC011 is the Infinity server solution and VMC027 is the non-infinity server solution - if you are in an infinity area then you cannot get access to the "VMC027" server(s) so you cannot get the slow speed solution?
Does the 5m5+ bps solution only apply to "Infinity" areas?

I think you will find that the VMC codes are actually status codes rather than servers. If you go onto the BT website you will find what they mean.

Infinidim

[promo-only]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonBlackham

I repeat...
...how do you explain that I am watching the CONCACAF Gold Cup via streamed broadband on a BT Vbox ?

ie BT are delivering live ESPN via Broadband as part of their Vision system prior to August 1st.
That is not to say that TUTV has ceased delivering ESPN via DVB ("Freeview") prior to 1st August.

I am NOT on Infinity and the "Signal strength is not available for broadband channels" message just shows that the channels are being delivered via broadband. I would get exactly the same message if I were on Infinity.

The whole point of my post is to demonstrate that what BT says about only being able to get (BT)sports (and ESPN) is via the BT player apps, Sky or BT Infinity - is wrong.

I do not know if the non-infinity BT set-up I have is available in all (non-infinity) areas or to new customers - I can say is that BTs marketing is appearing to alienate existing customers and is turning away possible customers in non-infinity areas.

And I repeat... that's the solution BT came up with! You're watching ESPN via broadband because that's how BT are delivering them to customers who are not in an Infinity-enabled area. It's entirely up to them how they deliver channels to their customers - it's just that they have no control over ESPN until the deal is completed, so until that time it will remain on DTT and available to TUTV customers through their aerial.

If you also have Sky Sports in your package, and you chose to cancel for whatever reason, you would then only get them back once Infinity became available to you and you upgraded to it.

The extra channels are listed on your EPG but the only way to view these is with an Infinity connection. Customers using the workaround will just receive a message asking you to check your connection.

It's entirely possible for BT to multicast enable copper exchanges and deliver the extra channels by that means but they've purposely chosen to invest in sport in order to shift fibre subs. That's why they're pushing that hard.

You can find some answers here - I think you'll find that useful.

[Fozzie55]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonBlackham

If so - go to...
"Help & Settings"
"System Information"
"CA Network Information"
... and click "Force Resynchronisation"

Nope, have nothing that says CA Network Information. I can watch HD on Netflix with my slow broadband speed so could do Sky Sports SD in theory