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Old 27-06-2013, 14:12
Sh'boobie
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I think she should be killed by a Dalek.

I don't think I've ever seen a Dalek kill anybody that wasn't a Red Shirt.

It would be nice after the Cup of Tea Castration incident which rendered Daleks about as scary as a Womble - and a nice book end to her first appearance in Asylum of the Daleks to have a Dalek simply cut her down in cold blood - and get away with it.
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Old 27-06-2013, 14:13
Shawn_Lunn
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Similar ish to Martha.

Clara chooses to leave of her own accord but parts with the Doctor on good terms.
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Old 27-06-2013, 14:24
Sh'boobie
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Similar ish to Martha.

Clara chooses to leave of her own accord but parts with the Doctor on good terms.
I think she's too similar to Martha already. (Poorly fleshed-out. Little backstory or character motivation. A watered down version of a previous companion whose departure the Doctor is devestated by.)

She's already fulfilled her characters primary objective. Mystery solved. Now what's the point of her? Where, if anywhere is her character going?

Either she ups her game ten-fold ... or kill her. Brutally.
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Old 27-06-2013, 14:34
Mulett
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She's already fulfilled her characters primary objective. Mystery solved. Now what's the point of her? Where, if anywhere is her character going?
This is a problem with Moffat's companions generally - they're 90% storyline and only 10% character.

I think they new Doctor will be good for Clara as it will, at least, give her something to react to. But I'm not really that interested in her anymore.
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Old 27-06-2013, 14:41
sandydune
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Similar ish to Martha.

Clara chooses to leave of her own accord but parts with the Doctor on good terms.
It would have to be something to do with a leaf as a leaf has cropped up a few times
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Old 27-06-2013, 14:41
RememberMeWhen
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This is a problem with Moffat's companions generally - they're 90% storyline and only 10% character.

I think they new Doctor will be good for Clara as it will, at least, give her something to react to. But I'm not really that interested in her anymore.
I 100% agree with the part in bold. Companions don't really travel with the Doctor because it's fun anymore - it always turns out to be because of something. Which makes their endings a lot harder to write.
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Old 27-06-2013, 14:43
sandydune
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I think the new Doctor will be good for Clara as it will, at least, give her something to react to.
K9 is needed also
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Old 27-06-2013, 14:50
CoalHillJanitor
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Moffat must have her endgame planned already, but it probably won't be simple. Clara has had her identity split up into countless separate bits, and we last saw the 'original' still trapped inside the Doctor's personal timestream. It will be hard to imagine her future until we see how she gets out of there.
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Old 27-06-2013, 15:22
Granny McSmith
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She should become the John Hurt Doctor's carer.
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Old 27-06-2013, 16:24
Shrimps
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Clara was splintered into countless other Claras to save both the Doctor and the Universe. She should have died a heroine while doing it - even the people who like her (not me) couldn't be too sad as she got to live a thousand lives. Now everything else she ever does will have to either be a massive anti-climax, or even more ridiculously overblown then what she's done already.

Seeing as Moffat declined to take the option of ending her character with some dignity, maybe Clara can suddenly wake up and realise she's still a dalek despite her desperate attempts to forget what had happened to her. Yes Series 7b was all a dream ...
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Old 27-06-2013, 16:38
Sh'boobie
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Yes Series 7b was all a dream ...
A nightmare, more like!
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Old 27-06-2013, 17:44
Mulett
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Companions don't really travel with the Doctor because it's fun anymore - it always turns out to be because of something. Which makes their endings a lot harder to write.
Yes, agree with that. I think Rose, Martha and Donna all had very clear, personal and (perhaps) even emotional reasons for travelling with the Doctor. They each had their families and friends, their busy lives, their jobs and their homes - but they also each had something missing. And for each of them, it turned out that the Doctor was the missing piece of their jigsaw. And so, really, each of them could have continued travelling with the Doctor forever and it would have been honest, understandable, believable and (also) fun!

But I think Amy and Clara both have very sparse, empty lives and their reasons for travelling with the Doctor - as you say - is because of some wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey thing. And once that something is resolved, it makes it hard to understand why they are kept on as a companion.

The problem is that we, as viewers, invested in Rose, Martha and Donna as people first and foremost. With Amy and Clara, its very much the mystery/story arc that is the attraction rather than the character.
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Old 27-06-2013, 17:52
RememberMeWhen
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Yes, agree with that. I think Rose, Martha and Donna all had very clear, personal and (perhaps) even emotional reasons for travelling with the Doctor. They each had their families and friends, their busy lives, their jobs and their homes - but they also each had something missing. And for each of them, it turned out that the Doctor was the missing piece of their jigsaw. And so, really, each of them could have continued travelling with the Doctor forever and it would have been honest, understandable, believable and (also) fun!

But I think Amy and Clara both have very sparse, empty lives and their reasons for travelling with the Doctor - as you say - is because of some wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey thing. And once that something is resolved, it makes it hard to understand why they are kept on as a companion.

The problem is that we, as viewers, invested in Rose, Martha and Donna as people first and foremost. With Amy and Clara, its very much the mystery/story arc that is the attraction rather than the character.
Couldn't have put it better myself!
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Old 27-06-2013, 18:07
sebbie3000
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I'm another for her leaving of her own volition.

Just would also like to point out that we've had one companion so far who's reasons for travelling with the Doctor were the actual story, from Moffatt. We've also had half a sites of a new companion, with her mystery having been dealt with already. I honestly cannot understand why people don't wait a little while longer before making such statements as: 'this is the problem with Moffat's companions...' There simply haven't been enough to make that sweeping generalisation... We've had one, and the beginnings of another... Not really statistically significant quite yet.
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Old 27-06-2013, 19:23
Shawn_Lunn
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I think she's too similar to Martha already. (Poorly fleshed-out. Little backstory or character motivation. A watered down version of a previous companion whose departure the Doctor is devestated by.)

She's already fulfilled her characters primary objective. Mystery solved. Now what's the point of her? Where, if anywhere is her character going?

Either she ups her game ten-fold ... or kill her. Brutally.
I agree Clara and Martha are similar but I don't see Clara as a watered down version of Martha though.

Her mystery's solved? There's plenty that can be done with her. She's going to be travelling with a new Doctor - develop their relationship, see how she reacts to his regeneration given that she's seen all his incarnations at this point.

And to be honest, with Rose, Donna, Amy and Rory, I'd rather no more sad exits for the time being. Clara's exit can be dramatic, emotional but uplifting too.

Kind of like when the Ninth Doctor left.
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Old 27-06-2013, 19:45
Sh'boobie
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Yes, agree with that. I think Rose, Martha and Donna all had very clear, personal and (perhaps) even emotional reasons for travelling with the Doctor. They each had their families and friends, their busy lives, their jobs and their homes - but they also each had something missing. And for each of them, it turned out that the Doctor was the missing piece of their jigsaw. And so, really, each of them could have continued travelling with the Doctor forever and it would have been honest, understandable, believable and (also) fun!

But I think Amy and Clara both have very sparse, empty lives and their reasons for travelling with the Doctor - as you say - is because of some wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey thing. And once that something is resolved, it makes it hard to understand why they are kept on as a companion.

The problem is that we, as viewers, invested in Rose, Martha and Donna as people first and foremost. With Amy and Clara, its very much the mystery/story arc that is the attraction rather than the character.
That really was perfectly put.
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Old 27-06-2013, 19:53
saladfingers81
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I am not sure how Clara should go out. They've peaked pretty early with her saving every Doctor ever so where now?

But a slightly unrelated wish for Clara...

STOP THE DAY TRIPS!!!!!!!!

Either its all or nothing. You give up your life to travel with the doctor. He doesn't pick you up like a divorced father every other Saturday. It massively lessens the drama. The stakes need to be high again.
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Old 27-06-2013, 20:09
Agent F
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Yes, agree with that. I think Rose, Martha and Donna all had very clear, personal and (perhaps) even emotional reasons for travelling with the Doctor. They each had their families and friends, their busy lives, their jobs and their homes - but they also each had something missing. And for each of them, it turned out that the Doctor was the missing piece of their jigsaw. And so, really, each of them could have continued travelling with the Doctor forever and it would have been honest, understandable, believable and (also) fun!

But I think Amy and Clara both have very sparse, empty lives and their reasons for travelling with the Doctor - as you say - is because of some wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey thing. And once that something is resolved, it makes it hard to understand why they are kept on as a companion.

The problem is that we, as viewers, invested in Rose, Martha and Donna as people first and foremost. With Amy and Clara, its very much the mystery/story arc that is the attraction rather than the character.
Yes, couldn't have put it better myself. That sums up exactly how I feel about them as well.
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Old 27-06-2013, 20:27
Shoppy
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I think the Doctor should have the opportunity to let Clara live on as any one of her multiple selves and she should choose to be the one she was to begin with
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Old 27-06-2013, 20:35
bbll22
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How should Clara bow out?.....in a body bag please!

The character will never be likeable for me I'm afraid...the sooner both she and Jenna go from Who, the happier I'll be...

---

Oh, and I see the Moff companions are only 10% character thing has reared its head again. I won't say any more on that but those claiming that Amy was sparse and had no reason to keep travelling with the Doctor just makes no sense to me at all. She travelled with him because he shaped her into the woman she became. She travelled to make up for the 'never coming back' when she was 7 and travelled for the adventures - to me she has the best claim of all to travel with him out of all the Nu-Who companions rather than just escaping a boring life on Earth. How people don't see that I'm not quite sure....
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Old 27-06-2013, 20:42
SilenceWillFall
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How should Clara bow out?.....in a body bag please!

The character will never be likeable for me I'm afraid...the sooner both she and Jenna go from Who, the happier I'll be...

---

Oh, and I see the Moff companions are only 10% character thing has reared its head again. I won't say any more on that but those claiming that Amy was sparse and had no reason to keep travelling with the Doctor just makes no sense to me at all. She travelled with him because he shaped her into the woman she became. She travelled to make up for the 'never coming back' when she was 7 and travelled for the adventures - to me she has the best claim of all to travel with him out of all the Nu-Who companions rather than just escaping a boring life on Earth. How people don't see that I'm not quite sure....
I completely agree on the Amy part. Also Rory doesn't seem to fit this pressumed line of the way Moffat handles companions either IMO.

As for Clara, I only have on big problem with her - She's no Oswin.
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Old 27-06-2013, 20:58
bbll22
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I completely agree on the Amy part. Also Rory doesn't seem to fit this pressumed line of the way Moffat handles companions either IMO.

As for Clara, I only have on big problem with her - She's no Oswin.
Glad to see someone's on the same page about that as me at least! And as you say Rory doesn't fit that way either....it feels like this only 10% character thing is now being bandied about as if it's fact....it is getting rather annoying!

Regarding Oswin, she was the most likeable form that Jenna has played on the show for me, but she was still a bit annoying anyway, less so than Victorian Clara or modern day Clara. If it was a slightly toned down Oswin as the companion then I may have enjoyed S7 pt2 more...
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Old 27-06-2013, 21:36
SilenceWillFall
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Glad to see someone's on the same page about that as me at least! And as you say Rory doesn't fit that way either....it feels like this only 10% character thing is now being bandied about as if it's fact....it is getting rather annoying!

Regarding Oswin, she was the most likeable form that Jenna has played on the show for me, but she was still a bit annoying anyway, less so than Victorian Clara or modern day Clara. If it was a slightly toned down Oswin as the companion then I may have enjoyed S7 pt2 more...
I find it so strange with Amy and even more so with Rory, because IMO they actually had quite a few stories that were character driven.

Amy's Choice- in which we learn that despite dreaming about the Doctor and running off with him all those years even at this point when she's still very young she realises that it is Rory and not the Doctor and his world that she can't live without.

Then in series 6 you get The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex, which both deal with Amy losing her faith in the Doctor albeit in different ways and growing up for both her and Rory at the end of The God Complex with the Doctor giving them a chance to build their own lives for themselves, which is further expanded on in The Power of Three where they did just that and they are starting to like the normal life just a bit more than the Doctor life, but they still aren't completely grown up and can't give up on the thrill of Doctor life and also love the Doctor too much. But when the moment comes they manage it in The Angels Take Manhattan first when they jump off the bulding and then later Amy decided it herself. It could be argued that she was just choosing between two men, but it wasn't just that. She had gone from the little girl who waited in her garden and dreamt of the Doctor to a grown woman who built a life with her love and a career for herself (as we learn that she became a succesful writer in The Bells of Saint John).

Also, Rory's story is IMO a rather beautiful story of a transition from the idiot into the BAMF!Rory. I feel like this is something they were trying to accomplish with Mickey, but I never quite believed that transition with him tbh. Though Rory of course had it much easier with 11 than 10 ever made it for Mickey (he was a herj towards him). Even though Rory is the idiot at the start and even later is often used as comic relief, he is shown to be caring and just a bit smart from the beginning (remember him investigating on his own during The Eleventh Hour while everyone else was busy taking pics/videos or him reading about time travel etc. before he came on the board of the TARDIS). And even though he isn't confident at all at this point, he is still one of the few characters who call the Doctor out on his bullshit right from the start (Vampires of Venice-"you make people wat to impress you) and he continues to do so (The Girl Who Waited- "you're turning me into you"). As Amy grows and Rory gets over his doubts that he has over their relationship and the role that the Doctor plays in her life, he gains confidence and really grows into the Last Centurion.

I think the only two major things that really bothered me about their characters and their relationship were:
- I really hate the whole almost every companion has to have a crush on the Doctor thing, so I detested Amy throwing herself at the Doctor in series 5 and the way Amy behaved towards Rory prior to him being erased from history (way too reminiscent of 10 and Rose/Mickey). But as I watched series 6 before series 5 I knew how it would turn out, so it didn't bother me quite as much as the series 2 stuff with Mickey, because I new that in the end Amy would grow out of it and also the Doctor was a better man here than he had been with Mickey.
- I absolutely don't understand the way they handled Amy and especially Rory dealign with Melody/River thing. With Amy we at least got a few glimpses, she and River working together in the Wedding of River Song, Amy waiting for River with the bottle of wine (which I took to mean that it is a common occurence because Amy says that there was a meteor shower,so she got them a bottle, so it sounds like she's always on the look out for River comming round) and we got the scene in The Angels Take Manhattan where we see Amy acknowledging River as Melody. It's not great, but it's something. Compared to that Rory actually from my memory never gets one single proper father-daughter scene with his daughter beyond flesh Melody where both of them would be aware of the nature of their relationship. And since they built in the whole divorce thing into the beginning of series 7 and it was about them not being able to have kids, I was pretty angry that Melody/River never gets a mention from them throughout the whole thing, Just doesn't make sense. Like, hello, you have a daughter, remember? Her life is already completely screwed up, so let's add to it and have her parents not care much about her, ok?

As for Oswin/Victorian Clara/Clara. I personally loved Oswin and was quite fond of Victorian Clara and still find modern day Clara ok, but she just seems kinda boring compared to the other two.
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Old 27-06-2013, 21:57
bbll22
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I think the only two major things that really bothered me about their characters and their relationship were:
- I really hate the whole almost every companion has to have a crush on the Doctor thing, so I detested Amy throwing herself at the Doctor in series 5 and the way Amy behaved towards Rory prior to him being erased from history (way too reminiscent of 10 and Rose/Mickey). But as I watched series 6 before series 5 I knew how it would turn out, so it didn't bother me quite as much as the series 2 stuff with Mickey, because I new that in the end Amy would grow out of it and also the Doctor was a better man here than he had been with Mickey.
- I absolutely don't understand the way they handled Amy and especially Rory dealign with Melody/River thing. With Amy we at least got a few glimpses, she and River working together in the Wedding of River Song, Amy waiting for River with the bottle of wine (which I took to mean that it is a common occurence because Amy says that there was a meteor shower,so she got them a bottle, so it sounds like she's always on the look out for River comming round) and we got the scene in The Angels Take Manhattan where we see Amy acknowledging River as Melody. It's not great, but it's something. Compared to that Rory actually from my memory never gets one single proper father-daughter scene with his daughter beyond flesh Melody where both of them would be aware of the nature of their relationship. And since they built in the whole divorce thing into the beginning of series 7 and it was about them not being able to have kids, I was pretty angry that Melody/River never gets a mention from them throughout the whole thing, Just doesn't make sense. Like, hello, you have a daughter, remember? Her life is already completely screwed up, so let's add to it and have her parents not care much about her, ok?
I agree with all the bit you put before this section by the way. First of all I never think Amy actually fancied the Doctor in anyway whatsover. I think just because he was such a part of her life in the way her shaped her was just why she threw herself at him in ep5 of S5 - it was never because she fancied I thought, this was the man who made her who she was and it just came across to me as her trying out this option of whether he would just be the raggedy man or more....like you I'm glad she saw sense and stuck with Rory and matured as a result of that.

I agree about the lack of father/daughter stuff with Rory/Melody though. That it one annoying thing that we never saw more of that, but I suppose the problem is that in the media's eyes and to an extent with the writers, Rory was the companion of the companion...I don't particularly like it like that but he was never thought of a proper companion in his own right by the media and to me by some of the writers. It really is one annoying thing about Amy & Rory only lasting 5 eps of S7...if they'd have had the whole of that series, things like that could have been expanded upon.

Rory is such an underrated companion in my mind and I just wish that at some point there could have been a proper 'Amy-lite' episode to fully reinforce his own individuality with 11...the bits we got in the Girl Who Waited and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship were great as were the other moments they had in the other eps. He and Amy both had plenty of character no matter what some users think on here...
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Old 27-06-2013, 21:57
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