Same here.

Yeah, they had history, but as viewers we hadn't seen Derek to consider him such an important figure in Pat's life. He appeared in one or two episodes in 95 or 96 as the two-bit racist brother of Carol who still lives with his parents and then left the Square soon after David decked him one. He was a minor character really. It was only when Jamie Foreman was recast as Derek that they expanded the role into this uber gangster wannabe/dodgy businessman who makes Pat tremble and run in fear of him . I mean this is the woman who had no problem standing up to Johnny Allen (a far superior villain to Derek) and suddenly she's scared of Derek the Super-Villain? It just didn't ring true to me.

For that reason, I didn't think it was enough to warrant a scene of Derek taunting Pat on her deathbed. I thought it was a nasty way to say goodbye to Pat's character (I couldn't imagine Corrie doing that to Jack or Vera). Creatively, I think it was a bad decision from the writers personally. But I can see your point, kitkat.

BIB: Yeah, I think you're right there. But wasn't Derek only contracted for one year? I always thought he was a temporary villain. Characters like him never last for long. So I found it strange that they were trying to establish him as part of the new guard as you say.

Oi hands off!

Yeah. I agree.

I'm a massive EastEnders fan and have watched a lot of the older stuff on YouTube. However, I voted for Stacey's exit, as the episode itself was high drama from start to finish: not a dull moment in sight, IMO.

Pat's exit had more of an emotion impact on me though.

'Iconic' is the most over-used and misappropriated word on this site.

I physically cringe every time I see it.

Which characters would you describe as iconic? Just curious . Welcome to DS by the way .

I do agree that the lack of Derek being on screen is what hurt that plot though in some ways I oreferred it when he was this almost mythic, bogeyman figure from David, Carol and Pat's past - he was kind of more important as a background figure than in actual appearance.

Of course, the 2012 version did totally fly in the face of the history. I'd always assumed he was quite a lot older than David, a man beating up and intimidating a 15 year old boy but basically ineffectual. As evidenced by David hitting him to the ground in 96 once they finally met as equals, as adults one on one.

Didn't like any of them, Pat's was unnecessary, Peggy's was dull and Stacey was just an annoying idiot so I was glad to see the back off her. So by default Tanya.

Agreed. Me too. I didn't like how TPTB recreated Derek and retconned aspects of the character in order to fit him into "EE 2.0" (using Filliman's term here ). He worked so much better as the mythic bogeyman as you put it that was mentioned every so often.

Other than that and the points big dan brought up in his post, I did like Pat's final episode .

What I liked about Pat's last episode, aside from the nastier and scarier aspects of death as already mentioned, they didn't shy off addressing the fact that she had been an incredibly flawed woman in her earlier life and a fairly appalling mother who was still resented by her son. They loved each other but they were profound disappointments to each other as well and again that felt real to me.

Definitely, kitkat. Those scenes between David and Pat were fantastically-written and powerful, but also poignant. I did also like the passage of dialogue when Pat was telling David to stop running away from his life as he's always done. Unfortunately, he didn't take her advice and ended up leaving Carol on the pavement as he drove away from the Square .
I've always thought David and Pat had a very real and honest relationship. You don't see familial relationships like that anymore in EE.

I actually thought that was perfect as he was crying as he left, saying 'sorry Mum' (or did I imagine that). He hated himself for what he was doing, as much for Pat's memory as the hurt it would cause Carol and disgust in himself for being cowed by Derek once again.

Nope, you didn't imagine it - that's exactly what he said . Which is what made that final scene more poignant and sad. And I'm glad they were able to persuade Nick Berry to return as Simon in the post-credits scene with him saying goodbye to his mum. It was a nice touch I thought .

and even that wasn't great.

100% agree. she was dire and awful and annoying