BT Sport, BT Sport 1, BT Sport 2 - LCNs 57,58,59

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VisionMan1

04-07-2013

Originally Posted by Colin_London:
“Nope - even unencrypted Channel 57 does not appear on my Youview Box, although it does appear on my Sony TV attached to the same connection

There is no point promoting the DTT versions on a Youview box as it doesn't have a card slot.

However, I do get the multicast versions on channels 507, 508, 510 & 511 ”

Good answer! And I get the Multicast HD channels too, on my BT Vision box.

VisionMan1

04-07-2013

Originally Posted by Everything Goes:
“Now what if someone has a BT Youview box without a subscription to BT Sports. Wouldn't they see Channel 57?! Just a theory that they are hiding it if you have an active subscription.”

Nope.

Even though CH57 looks unencrypted, it actually is flagged so, using "ROT26", and as CoL said, YouView boxes can't decipher these as 1, they don't contain a CAM and 2, even if they did, they can't decipher "ROT26" encryptions anyway.

1andrew1

04-07-2013

Originally Posted by Chorleyguy:
“Try 507/8/10/11..i found them here on my youview box (non BT)”

These don't appear on my retail Humax YouView box, the message "No channel" comes up when typed in. The same goes for channels 57, 58 and 59. My ISP is PlusNet which currently does not offer a TV service.

Colin_London

04-07-2013

Except that I don't have an active subscription as I have a retail Youview box, which BT does not yet accept for BT Sport.

I just get a static message screen encouraging me to subscribe on those channels

Everything Goes

05-07-2013

Originally Posted by VisionMan1:
“Nope.

Even though CH57 looks unencrypted, it actually is flagged so, using "ROT26", and as CoL said, YouView boxes can't decipher these as 1, they don't contain a CAM and 2, even if they did, they can't decipher "ROT26" encryptions anyway.”

Interesting! On my Panasonic TV it flags channel 57 as Encrypted but displays it anyway. On my Humax HD Fox T2 its shows no encryption flag and displays the channel fine. Guess BT have maybe set an encryption flag intentionally knowing it will fool Youview Boxes?!

jj20x

05-07-2013

It has a CA Identifier Descriptor so will appear has encrypted but none of the streams are actually encrypted. Perhaps this is an indication that encryption may be turned on at some point and that it may be used as a third channel. Even though BT has stated that ESPN will not be available on DTT.

Interesting that it couldn't really use the ESPN name at the moment as BT don't actually take that over until August 1st.

Greebo

05-07-2013

Originally Posted by VisionMan1:
“Even though CH57 looks unencrypted, it actually is flagged so, using "ROT26"...”

Are you sure it is ROT26? I'm seeing CH57 in 2ROT13 from Winter Hill...

chrisy

05-07-2013

Originally Posted by Colin_London:
“Nope - even unencrypted Channel 57 does not appear on my Youview Box”

It shows with a little key next to it on my TV, so it is flagged as encrypted, even though the current broadcast is FTA. That may simply be to stop it showing up on equipment that isn't able to receive encrypted broadcasts (although that seems a bit strange if it exists solely to promote BT Sport via other transmission systems, which seems to be the case as BT don't mention terrestrial transmission of BT Sports on it)

Everything Goes

05-07-2013

Originally Posted by Greebo:
“Are you sure it is ROT26? I'm seeing CH57 in 2ROT13 from Winter Hill... ”

Im going to guess that 2ROT13 is 2 times 13 = 26.

Greebo

05-07-2013

OK, I'll stop with the 2ROT13 nonsense [1]. Here's what dvbsnoop makes of the 3 services - as already stated, all are flagged as encrypted, so some devices will ignore them:

Code:

    Service_id: 27200 (0x6a40)  [=  --> refers to PMT program_number]
    reserved_1: 63 (0x3f)
    EIT_schedule_flag: 1 (0x01)
    EIT_present_following_flag: 1 (0x01)
    Running_status: 4 (0x04)  [= running]
    Free_CA_mode: 1 (0x01)  [= streams [partially] CA controlled]
    Descriptors_loop_length: 29 (0x001d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 72 (0x48)  [= service_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            service_type: 1 (0x01)  [= digital television service]
            service_provider_name_length: 0 (0x00)
            service_provider_name: ""
            service_name_length: 8 (0x08)
            Service_name: "BT Sport"  -- Charset: Latin alphabet

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 115 (0x73)  [= default_authority_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 10 (0x0a)
            Default_authority: 
                 0000:  77 77 77 2e 62 74 2e 63  6f 6d                     www.bt.com

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 83 (0x53)  [= CA_identifier_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 2 (0x02)
               CA_system_ID: 256 (0x0100)  [= Canal Plus (Seca/MediaGuard)]


    Service_id: 27328 (0x6ac0)  [=  --> refers to PMT program_number]
    reserved_1: 63 (0x3f)
    EIT_schedule_flag: 1 (0x01)
    EIT_present_following_flag: 1 (0x01)
    Running_status: 4 (0x04)  [= running]
    Free_CA_mode: 1 (0x01)  [= streams [partially] CA controlled]
    Descriptors_loop_length: 31 (0x001f)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 72 (0x48)  [= service_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 13 (0x0d)
            service_type: 1 (0x01)  [= digital television service]
            service_provider_name_length: 0 (0x00)
            service_provider_name: ""
            service_name_length: 10 (0x0a)
            Service_name: "BT Sport 1"  -- Charset: Latin alphabet

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 115 (0x73)  [= default_authority_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 10 (0x0a)
            Default_authority: 
                 0000:  77 77 77 2e 62 74 2e 63  6f 6d                     www.bt.com

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 83 (0x53)  [= CA_identifier_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 2 (0x02)
               CA_system_ID: 256 (0x0100)  [= Canal Plus (Seca/MediaGuard)]


    Service_id: 27360 (0x6ae0)  [=  --> refers to PMT program_number]
    reserved_1: 63 (0x3f)
    EIT_schedule_flag: 1 (0x01)
    EIT_present_following_flag: 1 (0x01)
    Running_status: 4 (0x04)  [= running]
    Free_CA_mode: 1 (0x01)  [= streams [partially] CA controlled]
    Descriptors_loop_length: 31 (0x001f)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 72 (0x48)  [= service_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 13 (0x0d)
            service_type: 1 (0x01)  [= digital television service]
            service_provider_name_length: 0 (0x00)
            service_provider_name: ""
            service_name_length: 10 (0x0a)
            Service_name: "BT Sport 2"  -- Charset: Latin alphabet

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 115 (0x73)  [= default_authority_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 10 (0x0a)
            Default_authority: 
                 0000:  77 77 77 2e 62 74 2e 63  6f 6d                     www.bt.com

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 83 (0x53)  [= CA_identifier_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 2 (0x02)
               CA_system_ID: 256 (0x0100)  [= Canal Plus (Seca/MediaGuard)]

I've seen in the past services accidentally flagged as encrypted despite not actually being so - notably on the Manchester local mux - and when reported that some devices then weren't seeing the channels they were able to fix it quickly. In this case I don't think it will be accidental.

[1] If you really want the geek joke explaining then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROT13#Usage

VisionMan1

05-07-2013

Originally Posted by Greebo:
“Are you sure it is ROT26? I'm seeing CH57 in 2ROT13 from Winter Hill... ”

That too was stated as the encryption in a post I saw. And then a second person referred to it as ROT26. So they must be one and the same thing. Maybe.

viewer btv

14-07-2013

I got these channels on my Top Up Tv PVR but nothing from TopUp Tv about these channels being on offer as part of pay tv channels like ESPN OR SKY SPORTS 1 ,2 FUNNY THAT?

Everything Goes

14-07-2013

Originally Posted by viewer btv:
“I got these channels on my Top Up Tv PVR but nothing from TopUp Tv about these channels being on offer as part of pay tv channels like ESPN OR SKY SPORTS 1 ,2 FUNNY THAT?”

Sky Sports is already gone and ESPN will be gone at the end of the month. The BT Sports channels on DTT will be a BT subscriber exclusive. Although I suspect they'll eventually be on IPTV only.

TelevisionUser

14-07-2013

Originally Posted by Everything Goes:
“Sky Sports is already gone and ESPN will be gone at the end of the month. The BT Sports channels on DTT will be a BT subscriber exclusive. Although I suspect they'll eventually be on IPTV only.”

From what's been said in various media reports, the BT Sport 1 & 2 channels will only be on Freeview/DTT in the medium term while BT continue rolling out Infinity to more of the population. When their target is reached, BT Sport 1 & 2 will be closed down on Freeview/DTT to be replaced by cheaper IPTV delivery of these two channels.

bergqvistjl

19-07-2013

I'm curious about the whole DTT thing. What i think is being implied, is that if you don't have Infinity, you can watch the DTT channels by using a BT Vision set-top box with a BT Sports viewing card?

What's to stop you putting that card in another 3rd party freeview box with a CAM slot? wouldn't that also mean you could then watch the BT sports channels using that box? Or is the viewing card able to restrict decryption so it only allows it on certain models (i.e. only the BT vision box)?

Bangers

20-07-2013

Originally Posted by bergqvistjl:
“I'm curious about the whole DTT thing. What i think is being implied, is that if you don't have Infinity, you can watch the DTT channels by using a BT Vision set-top box with a BT Sports viewing card?

What's to stop you putting that card in another 3rd party freeview box with a CAM slot? wouldn't that also mean you could then watch the BT sports channels using that box? Or is the viewing card able to restrict decryption so it only allows it on certain models (i.e. only the BT vision box)?”

It is possible to pair a viewing card to a particular receiver. This stops a card being shared between boxes.

entigy68

20-07-2013

When TUTV first started showing SS1 & SS2 (Aug 2010) their viewing card worked in my Digitalstream box....... for about 3 months.
Then Sky upped their encryption and the channels stopped working, which meant I had to acquire a TUTV-compatible box.

steven cardwell

29-07-2013

I have my card for the Vision+ box, 58 is showing BT Sport 1 in the corner and 59 shows BT Sport 2, 57 now shows no on screen DOG, however all 3 channels are showing the same promo, but flicking between the 3, they are all at different stages, so 57 isn't a "copy" broadcast of 58 or 59.

So what is 57 for, come the 1st August?

Has BT leased it, like the BBC for 302 and 303 and it is only short term to "sell" the BT Sport service with 57 to disappear sooner rather than later?

Perhaps, 57 will become ESPN, since everyone was surprised that BT Sport didn't appear on the same channel numbers that BT used for Sky Sports, due to the when the sale of the channel becomes official plus the fact that ESPN is currently broadcasting on another DTT number, maybe there is a legal reason that 57 can't be labelled or announced till the end of the month?

BT up to now, haven't been the most forthcoming with information, i had one call to them, that the answer was, "we don't know when the cards get sent out", needless to say my card arrived, i notice the TV promo states the £10 activation for the card, yet i got an email and a letter with the card stating it was free.

Maybe i'm reading too much into this, yet 3 channels have appeared on DTT, all broadcasting what would seem to be 3 separate streams, so unless one of them is a short term lease, what else can 57 be for?

BT have been coy about the various ways that BT Sport/ESPN is getting delivered, with things changing all the time, so who knows, only way to find out is wait till the 1st August and see what 57 is showing.

tomee

29-07-2013

Originally Posted by steven cardwell:
“I have my card for the Vision+ box, 58 is showing BT Sport 1 in the corner and 59 shows BT Sport 2, 57 now shows no on screen DOG, however all 3 channels are showing the same promo, but flicking between the 3, they are all at different stages, so 57 isn't a "copy" broadcast of 58 or 59.

So what is 57 for, come the 1st August?

Has BT leased it, like the BBC for 302 and 303 and it is only short term to "sell" the BT Sport service with 57 to disappear sooner rather than later?

Perhaps, 57 will become ESPN, since everyone was surprised that BT Sport didn't appear on the same channel numbers that BT used for Sky Sports, due to the when the sale of the channel becomes official plus the fact that ESPN is currently broadcasting on another DTT number, maybe there is a legal reason that 57 can't be labelled or announced till the end of the month?

BT up to now, haven't been the most forthcoming with information, i had one call to them, that the answer was, "we don't know when the cards get sent out", needless to say my card arrived, i notice the TV promo states the £10 activation for the card, yet i got an email and a letter with the card stating it was free.

Maybe i'm reading too much into this, yet 3 channels have appeared on DTT, all broadcasting what would seem to be 3 separate streams, so unless one of them is a short term lease, what else can 57 be for?

BT have been coy about the various ways that BT Sport/ESPN is getting delivered, with things changing all the time, so who knows, only way to find out is wait till the 1st August and see what 57 is showing.”

Will will all find out on Thursday.

DragonQ

29-07-2013

Isn't channel 57 only data? I don't think there's room for any more channels on Freeview, especially not sports ones. BT Sport 1 & 2 will already look like crap.

chrisy

29-07-2013

Originally Posted by steven cardwell:
“since everyone was surprised that BT Sport didn't appear on the same channel numbers that BT used for Sky Sports”

I wasn't surprised. Due to the LCN policy, I would have been angry if they had launched on the same numbers!

Quote:
“due to the when the sale of the channel becomes official plus the fact that ESPN is currently broadcasting on another DTT number, maybe there is a legal reason that 57 can't be labelled or announced till the end of the month?”

It's possible, but BT have said that ESPN won't be available. The extra channel is very odd though, and if they are taking over ESPN they have every right to use Ch34 - but if that was the case, why put the temporary promo channel on the lowest number they have when they know it will be vacated and then nicked by some other channel down the line?

It's very strange and I'm half expecting Ch57 to be renamed BT ESPN on the 1st of August.

Ian Cleverly

31-07-2013

The BT Promotion channel on 57 is now blank. It was still running whilst ESPN were on it's off-air caption this aftenoon.

clewsy

31-07-2013

BT Sport free tomorrow for all on Freeview

ccb2011

31-07-2013

BT Sport free tomorrow - here's an article on my blog with the info I received:
http://sportonfreeviewuk.blogspot.co...t-only-as.html

AngusMast

31-07-2013

There are 2 audio channels defined on 57. I switched to the second one a few minutes ago and heard adverts, it's silent now.

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